A Question for the CCS Racer

[benprobst]

in defense of mingo and riders like him he has raced 2 or 3 races a weekend for 5 or 6 years now . he's crashed and crashed to where he is a broken old man . he rides more track days now than race weekends  but does about every ccs event.  in a race weekend he will either do one or 2 morning races . comes in last or second to it. he only reason is he likes the social time. he gets to be with he's friends for a few hrs once or so a month he also likes to ride fast for fun not caring where he finishes. then there's john he's was one of the fastest racers ever period. he's done isle of man several times he's raced assen, hockenhiem and just about every other track on the planet . now in his late 50's he rarely races . once or twice a year. i'm sure his son barrett has a transponder but doubt he or his other son justin (who rides occasionally) have one. so theirs 3 right the that have supported the   CLUB   for years that would probably quit.  now there's me. i only want to race daytona i have eveything to race except a renewed license an a good pair of tires. my body is junk, titanium hip, 12 more pins holding my pelvis together, torn rotator cup, torn meniscus and bulgeing disk in the neck. and a wife that would let me race under protest . do i really want to spend another $420 NOT to go any faster or be any safer?   no. so there's 4. so how are you going to bring former racers back into racing? how are you going to bring dirt bikers that ride for $20 a day into the sport.how are you going to get trackday guys to race where they ride all day for$180 and get a free steak lunch to boot.   if you want a CLUB where only lawyers and stock brokers can play then fine.  there's always a trackday somewhere for me.   the other thing i don't understand is are they not still manually scoring in FL region?   kinda wish Henry D would weigh in on this.   

rent one for 40 bucks. If you cant afford an extra 40 dollars do your family and everyone else a favor and dont go racing.

[squirrel22]

rent one for 40 bucks. If you cant afford an extra 40 dollars do your family and everyone else a favor and dont go racing.

I don't think it's affordability that everyone is discussing, but perceived value.  I'd buy an Ohlins TTX all day long for $420.00 but I'm not going to buy a set of sprockets for $420.00 EVER.  We will lose only a few current participants, but many prospective racers. 

[squirrel22]

I have an idea about this, that I'm going to email Kevin about.  Maybe he'll like it!

[MELK-MAN]

was it Dr. Costa that said "..if a racer want's to race there is nothing you can do to keep them from racing, if someone doesn't want to race, there is nothing you can do to make them do it" .. or something like that. The alternative would be down to 2 choices. 1) don't race 2) race with wera - that uses these transponders.

[kawtipping]

Yes the Tranx 260 is compatible with all other AMB/My Laps systems in use by AMA Pro, WERA, CRA, CMRA, AHRMA.

We will not go back to manual scoring. (It is nearly impossible to find people who can do manual scoring especially with the small numbers and number plates you all love to use so that suggestion is unrealistic.) One benefit will be that we would no longer have to be so strict on your stylization of the numbers.

The average age of the Westhold transmitters we lease is 8 years old. The software has limitations that the AMB/My Laps does not have. We lease these transmitters from Westhold and when they were implemented your first entry fee was raised by $5 to cover the initial cost of implementation. Subsequent increases were due to higher insurance and track rental costs, not the scoring system.

Rental units will always be a part of the program, average rental fees are $40 to $60 per race depending on who owns the rental units. Owning your transponder gets you access to all your lap times and information, renting does not.

If we change to AMB/My Laps, it will not affect the cost of the event for CCS, just to simplify personnel issues (i.e. trying to find a good manual scorer.)  Purchase of the software and equipment right now will cost CCS the same as the Westhold lease does per event. One factor that brought about this request for input is the knowledge that the cost of the AMB/My Laps system will increase in 2011 but if we make the commitment now, it would save us all money in the long run.

At this time the RFID system is incapable of making line calls and until that flaw is fixed, it is not practical for race application. (Go back to manual scorers needed if you were to use that system.)

For those that didn't read this before or fail to understand what it says.  Switching to the AMB system will still cost CCS the same money that keeping the current system does.  So if we switch systems, why should it cost us less to race?  I don't think it should.  If the cost to CCS is the same, how can the cost to us be less?  In the long run it may cost CCS less, but it will take a bit to get there (not having to lease transponders and software from the current provider).  This is a long term solution for an ongoing problem.  Perhaps those complaining about the cost of the AMB transponders should complain to AMB.  They are the ones getting 10x the real value for their product.

[mattg]

Purchase of the software and equipment right now will cost CCS the same as the Westhold lease does per event. One factor that brought about this request for input is the knowledge that the cost of the AMB/My Laps system will increase in 2011 but if we make the commitment now, it would save us all money in the long run.

This part makes me think the new system is cheaper.

[gpz11]

This part makes me think the new system is cheaper.

Yes, it's cheaper for CCS if they buy it in 2010 compared to 2011.

[George_Linhart]

snip...
  now there's me. i only want to race daytona i have eveything to race except a renewed license an a good pair of tires. my body is junk, titanium hip, 12 more pins holding my pelvis together, torn rotator cup, torn meniscus and bulgeing disk in the neck. and a wife that would let me race under protest . do i really want to spend another $420 NOT to go any faster or be any safer?   no. so there's 4. so how are you going to bring former racers back into racing? how are you going to bring dirt bikers that ride for $20 a day into the sport.how are you going to get trackday guys to race where they ride all day for$180 and get a free steak lunch to boot.   if you want a CLUB where only lawyers and stock brokers can play then fine.  there's always a trackday somewhere for me.   the other thing i don't understand is are they not still manually scoring in FL region?   kinda wish Henry D would weigh in on this.   

So - if you hole your radiator and need to buy a new one will you also quit?  Cost to purchase woudl be about the same.  The radiator won't make you faster or safer- all it will do is allow you to get out on the track again.

Racers race.  That is all there is to it.

George

[Knightslugger]

CCS wont be leasing the equipment from AMB. It's an outright BUY. That's how i understood it. What they said above, to me, means that for what the cost of leasing the Westholds is right now PER EVENT will be the cost SAVINGS per event (after the first use that is).

Given the cost of the AMB system, wrap your heads around how much money that is over a year of racing. It's damn near a foregone conclusion as to what CCS will do in regards to the switch...

George, i'm guessing if he holes his radiator, he'll be out for a weekend, as will most of us budget racers would given the same circumstances. This is what we're all considering for 2011. Given what we spend/budget currently for a season of racing, we're now forced to add $450 for next year. If you don't have room in your budget to fit in all your races with a new transponder buy, you're either forced to do less races, or less events. that's all there is to it. That puts less money in CCS's pocket, but given the cost savings of going to the AMB system, it shouldn't effect them in the long run too badly. There will just be less entries for the season opener. The following year (2012) you'll be right back to where you were 2 years prior, racing your events you want to race.

[MACOP1104]

OK, what is the alternative?  Keep the current system that is 8 years old and is eventually going to fail, then pay more which will get absorbed by the racers anyway.  I bought my used AMB for $225.  The same price as a rear tire.....

[Rick Johnson 29]

Maybe they can rent them for $40 like metioned and after say 11 or so rentals CCS give you one. That would probally make it easier on everyone if we switched. It is a added cost but $40 over say 11 weekends will not seem like much when we are already spending alot to race anyway. I had to buy one this winter because I do a few races with wera. It nice to be able to go check your lap times after your race and not have to wait a week or 3 to see your times. Also it would be nice if CCS would post all the lap times for each race instead of just your fast lap.

[kawtipping]

Maybe they can rent them for $40 like metioned and after say 11 or so rentals CCS give you one. That would probally make it easier on everyone if we switched. It is a added cost but $40 over say 11 weekends will not seem like much when we are already spending alot to race anyway. I had to buy one this winter because I do a few races with wera. It nice to be able to go check your lap times after your race and not have to wait a week or 3 to see your times. Also it would be nice if CCS would post all the lap times for each race instead of just your fast lap.

The answer to the rent to buy question was already answered...it will not happen.