Why AMA road racing will never be big time...

[Super Dave]

It would be difficult to pull just a frame off the line with it having a VIN. A frame with no VIN is no big deal, a frame with a VIN is.

Right.

And the rules state that the frame should have a VIN.  

In 1993, we watched the Supersport teardowns in Phoenix.  The GSXR's were liquid cooled.  Yosh did well, again, but all the Suzuki Sport support riders...well, their bikes were pretty slow.  The frames didn't look right as we watched.  You can only get so close, but it didn't look right.


The point I was making about the BMW race was that it was exciting.  Daytona or not, it was exciting.  If your point is that the old Daytona provided good racing, well, there have been some pretty processional races there.  

[Frank_Angel]

If you know the AMA rulebook you know that a fine was a valid penalty for the infraction. The problem is that the rulebook states that penalties are the discretion of AMA Pro Racing, and they seldom explain how the penalty was determined in these situations, which leaves everyone guessing. Was the penalty appropriate in this case? Who knows, and that's the problem.

[spyderchick]

Ok, how 'bout this? The AMA rules state that you MUST have your name on the back of your leathers.  ;D

I'm going to call the AMA whenever I see a rider w/o a name.  They can send me whatever fine they impose. ;) (j/k)

[badmonkey]

They were found legal...http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=22268

[Super Dave]

Legal, by the standard set forth by individuals by what?  

They had no VIN numbers.

Beyond that, no measurements were taken, right?

Penalties have changed over the years to fit whomever has an interest.

At one time, there were straight forward claim rules.  

Goofy Ti pipes, funny carbs...

HRC black boxes...Chromemoly frames...

[russ1962]

I guess I can chime in as a sponsor, and someone who knows the sport somewhat as an insider....

Friends, I am not sure that the VIN issue, or the lack-of designation between rider and team (how do you fine a team when there is no specification/identification of a team?), or the apparent abuse and/or stretching of the rules makes a sponsor want to enter or exit this sport.

Business.  Plane and simple.  It's about business.  Why does a sponsor, especially one with a product of service that is not directly connected to the sport (as VoiceEclipse has nothing to do with racing)?  

Answer: Population and demographic impact.  Exposure.  Here's how we considered the decision to assist the SafetyFirst Team this year...  we spent a lot of time helping/working with the team to understand the circulation and demographic impact and size of who they could affect.  Does a sticker on a bike mean anything?  No, I don't believe so.  What good does a VoiceEclipse sticker do for us on the side of a bike?  Winning or finishing at the back, it really has little value to the sponsor.  

What the SF team is doing that is extremely valuable to us as a sponsor is the marketing of the name.  They have over 30 public appearances planned at major shopping malls, schools, etc., throughout the country.  They are setting up displays at public events, showing the cool machines, the riders there in leathers to impress the public, and of course, they are all trained on how to talk about VoiceEclipse.  The printed collateral is in their hands, and they give it to thousands of potential customers in a given weekend.

That's business.  This approach is something that can be "sold" by a team to a potential sponsor.  Demographic impact is what this is about.

Winning a race is icing on the cake, it's the bonus.  If it was about winning, there would not be major sponsor names on every car in a Nascar race.

What I believe is the problem with the exposure of this sport in America is with the lack of mainstream marketing of the AMA for events.  I do not see any promotion of an AMA event, I never see anything on TV, hear anything on radio, no public appearances for the major names to promote the sport, nothing.  

As a sponsor, my concern is with the lack of business understanding with the AMA, not with the fan demographic.  Nascar has an awesome following, and so can this sport.  The people will come, they will think it's cool to see, and they will be excited.  It's not that Americans don't like this sport, it's more that they just don't know much about it.

Why does the AMA fail in marketing?  Simple.  It's an Affinity Organization.  Not a major corporation.  Nascar is not a membership club, or an Affinity Organization.  It's a real business, with major marketing skill.  If the AMA was chartered with making the AMA Superbike Series a highly profitable business, and that was their only source of revenue, then things would change.  

Kind of like asking why the Chicago Cubs didn't spend major bucks on players and really try to win...  why?  because they could fill Wrigley and sell merchandise, whether they won or not.    The AMA makes it's revenue from hundreds of thousands of membership dues, and the racing revenue is not all that finances the events.

Superbike racing would be successful if it were owned and run by business people, answered to shareholders, and not a committee of volunteers with no financial stake in the success of the business.

I wonder how successful my company would be if the board were volunteer, and the executive staff wasn't incentivized by profit, scale, and earnings.

Just my more-than-two cents.

Russ

[G 97]

They can hand pick each piston, rod, crank, etc from the parts floor to build their bikes allowing for a better balanced engine.

also, with their unlimited budgets, they can run their engine tolerances real loose for extra hp as this requires a rebuild after every race

$4000 Ohlins fork cartridges I'm sure add some.

Oh yea, and the guys are stupid fast! :D

Dude don't kid yourself.  You are not telling Dave anything new.   ::)  and you wonder why.  

[G 97]

AMA Pro Racing = Manufacturers.  Who makes up the board?

Sadly, nothing will change until this does.  

Separate the sanctioning body from the manufactures and promoters  

[r6_philly]

just clarification:

AMA Pro Racing IS A FOR PROFIT business. It is NOT a branch of AMA, the non profit org. They have made this quite clear on some issues which is their explaination on how certain things are run.

On the other hand, if AMA Pro Racing is a seperate entity why are riders, crews and everyone requiring a credential required to buy a AMA membership?

[russ1962]

...clip taken from the AMA Pro Racing website:

"A for-profit subsidiary of the 265,000-member-plus American Motorcyclist Association (AMA), AMA Pro Racing was formed in 1995 to respond to the rising popularity and tremendous growth of motorcycle racing in America. The formation of a separate company with a separate Board of Directors and management staff allowed the AMA to continue its focus on government relations, pursuing, protecting and promoting the interests of motorcycle enthusiasts, membership growth and other issues. AMA Pro Racing concentrates exclusively on the business and complexities of professional motorcycle racing."

I am completely unconvinced that this organization is chartered with profit, financial success, and growth.  This is not a business, as is Nascar, it's a "subsidiary of the AMA".  This simply means they are to chartered with not creating a negative cash flow on the parent organization, and to be at a minimum; self sustaining.

As I said earlier, I don't think the AMA Pro Racing organization is run a business.

[r6_philly]

my view on the VIN issue:

AMA rule book states that all bike MUST pass tech prior to any official practice and all bike MUST be class legal during ANY on track sessions.

So regardless of whether or not the frames are indeed production frame, and legal or not, they should not have been allowed to be ridden on the track, during practice, qualifying, or the race.

Considering said bike should not have been on track at all for not having a VIN number (there for not legal for the class), then the race results should be nullified because they have tested (during practice and qualifying) and adjusted said illegal bikes before the race, and therefore we can reasonably assume gained advantage from it prior to the race.

If said machines were found illegal just prior to the race, the riders would have been required to start from the back of the grid (for qualifying on an illegal machine) using a provisional start, on their back up bike which would probably not set up and perform as well, and probably wouldn't have finished where the illegal bikes finished.

Whether or not the frames were in spec, they were illegal as long as they did not have the VIN on them. And race finishes should not have counted.

Example:
if a factory supersport rider were found running with a 600cc frame with a 1000cc motor inside, but however he crashed or blew up and end up finishing last but still in the points/purse, do you think AMA would let him keep the points and purse?

well no performance advantage were gained because he did not finish the race, but it was illegal nonetheless and the rider would be severely punished wouldn't he?

so the suzuki teams rode a illegal bike (whether or not it was performance enhancing) all weekend and nothing but a fine (which is so much less than the purse earned)?

anyone remember when Haga was found to be doping (arguably the drug actually made him weaker) but points taken away anyhow?

so why should anyone follow the rules?

[dylanfan53]

I wonder how successful my company would be if the board were volunteer, and the executive staff wasn't incentivized by profit, scale, and earnings.

Probably about as successful as AMA racing.  ;)

Good points, Russ.  From what I've seen it looks to be run like a poorly managed charity or worse yet, a town council.

Your comments about the lack of mainstream marketing are right on.  Most of John Q. Public isn't at all familiar with the sport.  Tell someone you enjoy racing and they assume you ride a dirt bike.

The real eye opener in your post though is the importance of the public appearances along with the advertising for your company's services that cemented your decision to sign on.  We're often so focused on how we finish in the race that many are too timid to approach a sponsor, thinking we're not fast enough.

Good stuff to think about.