Why AMA road racing will never be big time...

[grasshopper]

You're right about the nascar fans.  I just made the connection that once you get really plowed, the world spins in a single counter-clockwise direction.  Thus nascar is the  only sport they can really watch.

LOL!!! Go straight Turn Left!

On a more serious note about AMA PRO Racing...

What if anything can be done to make this sport more popular in the US?

Why are people so out of touch with motorcycle road racing?

[Super Dave]

Who's playing that fantasy AMA Superbike?

Anyone who is more than likely has picked Mladin as one of their riders.  Invaribly, Mladin is a very good rider.  But he's riding for a very good team.  A top line manufacturer supported team.  The possibility that Mladin would be out of the top five is almost improbable.

Does that make AMA Superbike fun to watch?

Mark Martin races for Jack Roush, right?  A top flight team with corporate support.  There isn't the kind of manufacturer support in NASCAR because of rules.  The teams are on more of an equal basis.  Yeah, some teams are better than others, but at least the playing field is more level.  

The possibility of Mark Martin winning isn't there, necessarily.  Nor is it that he will finish in the top ten.  Nor is it that he will finish in the top thirty.  

That's what has made NASCAR a popular series...

One word...

COMPETITION

Who likes Geoff May?  Anyone think that he had any chance to win an AMA Superbike race last year unless a whole lot of people fell down?

Steve Rapp?  Good rider, rode for the Ducati Factory team at one time.  Think he would have won a superbike race?

So, when you take a friend to a race and they have never been to one before, and you say, "Oh, that's Mat Mladin, he's a factory rider and he'll probably win."

What does that do?  Does that showcase the beauty of competition?  Or does it become a processional walk away?  If you wanted to just watch individual riders go around and around...I'd be happy to sell tickets to track days where you can watch something similar.

Racing...man and machine.  But there needs to be some kind of fair play.  Otherwise, what do we have?

Honda won the FX championship last year.  Great.  They were the only player.  As racers, and probably racing fans, does that championship give you a feeling of a "job well done" or do you think "yeah, they bought the championship"...

When Dale Quarterley, my friend, put together a program to lease Muzzy Superbikes in 1993 again after buying a used on in 1992, he really made the races exciting.  He flat beat the factory riders (World Champions Polen and Edwards) at MidOhio.  At one point in the race, it was nine bikes with an opportunity to win.  That was racing.

AMA racing of years gone by had races where there were maybe twenty guys that might win.  Exciting.  

Did that help fuel the boom of motorcycle purchases of the 70's?

NASCAR is a success, is it not?  Drivers, pr people, mechanics, truck drivers, suspension engineers, etc...they have paychecks.

Are AMA racers any less talented or deserving of an opportunity to make a fair living.  I'm not even talking about comfortable, I'm talking about fair.  

My first AMA National was at Road America in 1988.  Randy Renfrow, former AMA Champion at everything, complained that the AMA Superbike purse was less than the 250 GP purse from 1980.  

Can teams and riders shine in a bicycle race when they can't even get a fair opportunity to have even reasonably similar equipment?

[Super Dave]

LOL!!! Go straight Turn Left!

On a more serious note about AMA PRO Racing...

What if anything can be done to make this sport more popular in the US?

Why are people so out of touch with motorcycle road racing?

Lack of exciting competition.  

Make it better by providing an attainable and enforceable set of rules that all riders or teams must be obligated to abide by...

Go straight, turn left has those rules in place that make it exciting.  They are working with tiny issues to improve their possibility of performance.

When I was working with Dale Quarterley, he was racing an RC30 in 1991.  There were carburetors available to the Honda supported team, but no one would sell them to him even though the rules specifically stated that they must be available.

How about Forks?

How about preseason testing?  

How many teams were allowed to test at Daytona?  

[the_weggie_man]

Because everyone here grows up in the back seat of an SUV or mini-van and not on the back of a scooter or cycle like so many do in Europe and the Far East.

The U.S. is a car culture country hence the NAPSCAR mentality. IT WILL NEVER CHANGE......get over it and rather than worry about road racing popularity go have fun at what you do. The hell with the car jockeys and their followers.

People have been hashing this over since forever. I have magazines from the 70's and 80's with articles asking all these same questions.

You can't even get cycle riders to attend races so why do you think the average joe blow would do it? The stands at Daytona are virtually empty but Main Street is packed. What does that tell you? And remember that those same folks on Main St. are the ones filling the stands at NAPSCAR races. Hell, they'll give up a great afternoon of riding to sit in a bar and watch "stock car" racing.

As for AMA and rules......Hahahaha....yeah, they print a rule book but that's about as far as it goes.
Yates and Spies get $1,000 fines, whoopee. AMA does not recognize teams. Who the hell do they think is building these bikes, the riders themselves?

It just shows how far in the dark they are about racing as a professional sport. There needs to be an overhaul in AMA racing, starting at the top.

[gpstar1]

Very good point dave! I hope that ama racing does improve in the near future for everyone!

[Baltobuell]

  The fact that everyone in the country drives a car and sportbike riders are a small percentage may have a little to do with it too. Going to a Nascar race is going to a party. Noise, beer, lunacy, a safe place to go a little nuts. Fun for spectators.
  If you couldn't get into the pits, why would anyone watch a roadrace when all you can see is 1 or 2 corners. At least at a dirttrack you can watch a race, the whole race, and there ARE, people going to the grandstands at fairground dirttracks. Not like in the 70's but still.
  Roadracing for spectators is best on TV (when it's done right) But regular TV isn't going to do it right when there isn't a big fan base.
  I think it would take real big money with sombody really ready to loose it, to run their own series, to promote, televise, pay quality purses, week in and week out, and see if it caught on. Then, non industry sponsors could and would put their brand name on a fairing. I don't think it's going to happen, too much financial risk. But than again, there is arena football so some billionairs must be willing to blow money.

[Super Dave]

We listened to the concept that racing in a stadium would bring spectators.  That doesn't work.  If it did, then Daytona, Fontana, Charlotte, Pheonix, Pike Peak, Loudon would have big spectator numbers.

They don't.

I am a racing fan.

I race motorcycles.

I will watch NASCAR for the competition that I like to see.  

Did anyone watch Baliss and Edwards beat each other up for the WSB championship a few years ago?

Anyone would find that exciting.

How much did Miguel win the Daytona 200 by?

[the_weggie_man]

The old line goes, "Wanna make a million dollars racing? Start with two million".

As for sponsors....when a bike can get an area as large as a car hood, roof, deck lid and quarter panels you may see someone advertising on them. How much is a sponsor going to pay for a 6x12 inch sticker placed under the fairing where it can only be seen for a fleeting instant when the bike is leaned over in a turn.

Also, when is the last time you heard any sponsors name other than the factory teams in any race announcing? You'll hear, " in the battle for tenth is Joe Blow and John Doe", but you'll never hear their sponsors names. Unlike NAPSCAR that ALWAYS says the sponsors names. to the pointof excess.

NAPSCAR is promotion heaven for sponsors. AMA is promotion hell.

[StumpysWife]

Devil's Advocate...

Is it possible they "picked out" their frames before the VIN was put on?

Also, it certainly isn't Honda's fault that no other factory runs FX--if they suck so bad against other factories, why not step up and win that championship, too?  Should they have not run the 200 because no other real factory entered? Why aren't the other factories entering?  Money? Time? Riders?  What will get the best competition on the track?

Was there alot of complaining when the Superstock class was basically for Suzuki 750s?  I honestly can't remember.  I just remember thinking it was odd that there was a class for basically one bike.

Competition is what it is.  You all have seen knock-down, drag-out battles on the track in club racing.  You can't tell me that those battles were all riders on equivilent equipment.  Kind of like when the money chasers show up--either you complain about them "taking the money" or you set out to beat them.  One or the other.

Ok, I'm done.

Heather   :)

[jarelj]

 
.....  I think it would take real big money with sombody really ready to loose it, to run their own series, to promote, televise, pay quality purses, week in and week out, and see if it caught on. Then, non industry sponsors could and would put their brand name on a fairing. I don't think it's going to happen, too much financial risk. But than again, there is arena football so some billionairs must be willing to blow money.

It will be interesting to see the impact that Michael Jordan has on the issue.  Just the fact that he's sponsoring a team could draw more sponsors and lead to such things as roadracing being shown on network TV on a Saturday afternoon.  I hope it happens, I think if more people see it more people will be drawn to it.  I know that when I've had non-riding friends at my house and popped in a MotoGP or WSB DVD on the big screen, many of them have been like "Oh wow, that's awesome!".  It could happen.....  ;)

[spyderchick]

I don't know how "production" frames get a VIN in M/C manufacturing, but where Roger works (bicycle manf) the serial number gets stamped on the bottom bracket BEFORE welding and brazing ever begins.

[tzracer]

Frames:

My guess is that the team wanted some frames, not entire bikes. The paper work is probably already in place matching frame numbers to engine numbers. So they probably plucked some frames off the assembly line prior to the frame being stamped. There is much red tape when it comes to serial numbers ( I was the production manager a Buell - when it was still an independent company).

Bike racing vs car racing:

I have raced both 2 wheels and 4 wheels. Set up is more important with a car than a bike. The driver cannot do as much to affect the vehicle as a rider can. There fore it is more difficult to get close bike racing. Bike racing has never been, and will never be as close competition wise as cars, because the rider can make a HUGE difference in the performance of the bike. I bet Val Rossi or Matt Mladan could go significantly faster on your bike than you can without making any changes. Nascar has made the cars very even, in car racing this makes for close competition. The same doesn't work for bikes. The best riders will always win, the best drivers don't always win.