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Why AMA road racing will never be big time...

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Super Dave

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Why AMA road racing will never be big time...
« on: March 17, 2005, 06:00:19 am »
It will never be popular, and most riders and crews of teams will never be able to make a fair living....

It's a decent living for various NASCAR teams at many levels...

http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=22257

And my reply...

This might be my opinion, but I would regard a manufacturer's vehicle identification number the most basic unit of consistency of origin for production based racing, that which we have in the AMA National Road Racing series.

Regarding the existence of teams, we can conjecture all day long, but If Jesse Janisch, JJ Roetlin, or Ty Howard had a frame without a VIN number in any class, things might have been different in the penalty phase?

I hear so many motorcycle racing fans complain about the penetration of NASCAR into their lives.  However, this is an example of why American motorcycle racing seems so second rate:  basic foundations of rules are bent by very specific "high" level manufacturer supported teams, and the sanctioning organizations penalties do nothing to foster general or specific deterrence for the current and potential offenders.  NASCAR has a pretty concise set of rules that each driver's team must follow for legality.

If the frame was illegal under the basic foundations to be considered a production motorcycle, the finish is not valid.  There were certainly a host of riders behind the non-VINed bikes that are actually competing for a championship.  Does their effort in following the rules not matter?  

I consider these fines to be a pat on the back to the teams that gridded their riders on bikes without VINs.  In the end, if they win the championship, or guard their rider that does have a chance at winning, the penalty has no teeth whatsoever.    

I consider these fines to be a kick to the groin to the private teams and other "lower" level manufacture supported teams.  It skews the final results for those that put in a valid effort, regardless.  In the end, a point here and a point there will matter in these championships.  Will those points matter to Jason Pridmore and Vincent Haskovec?  By the last few rounds, it will determine how much risk they will have to incur to try and capture or guard their potential chances at a championship.  That might determine their bonuses or further opportunities.  

In closing, if you were a potential sponsor from outside the motorcycle industry, would rulings like this make you more or less likely to want to financially back a rider, team, or the series?  Certainly would make less expensive opportunities with smaller teams more of a no opportunity to compete option.
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rotoboge

Re: Why AMA road racing will never be big time...
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2005, 06:12:39 am »
As usual, very well said.
I concur with your thoughts on the matter... :(
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StumpysWife

Re: Why AMA road racing will never be big time...
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2005, 06:17:15 am »
Dave, Did you send this to the AMA?

Great response.  I'm guessing Mladin's frame had a VIN?   ::)

Heather
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spyderchick

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Re: Why AMA road racing will never be big time...
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2005, 06:28:19 am »
Good point Dave, now as to the other aspect of the story: AMA doesn't recognize teams? WTF?
I think to a certain extent almost all sanctioning bodies (F1, NASCAR, CHAMP cars) protect their golden children. It's not right, but it's a fact.

But why on earth would the AMA refuse to recognize a team? Team efforts are better marketing tools, pull in larger sponsors, and are more cost effective. We know that there are "teams" out there, does that mean "Team Honda" must consist of Team Miguel, Team Jake, And Team Kurtis? So they have 3 teams, backing each rider? That's so completely stupid; we've all observed the team concept in AMA.

So yes, I guess that gives privateers one more thing to fight against. The VIN # rule is suposed to be there for a reason. Whether they choose to enforce that rule fairly is their decision. But the Team concept? It's there, and could have been used to fine these teams significantly, enough to hurt. Even better, impound the offending frame, F1 style, and see how fast the factory "teams" (oh sorry, riders) comply.
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Fat_Nate

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Re: Why AMA road racing will never be big time...
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2005, 06:41:44 am »
So I guess now Suzuki racing will have to make not just custom frames for their riders, but also a machine that can stamp VIN numbers?
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Jeff

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Re: Why AMA road racing will never be big time...
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2005, 07:08:09 am »
If only Scott Peterson had money...  He could be in the club with OJ and Robert Blake...  

Similarities abound...
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grasshopper

Re: Why AMA road racing will never be big time...
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2005, 07:30:36 am »
So if the frames don't have VIN #'s where did they come from? Is it still considered a production frame if it doesn't have a VIN?

Another question about unfairness.

Don't get me wrong, I do realize that the top factory riders are extremely talented individuals, but how do they run away so far from the field? What is done to the "PRODUCTION FACTORY MACHINES" that privateers can't do?

If they are so extremely modified to run away that far from the field are the bikes still considered (Technically)  PRODUCTION?

I personally would really like to see a privateer team and racer place in AMA Road Racing, I'm sure alot of other people would to. Is this that far fetched? Is it really even practical to be a privateer on a PRODUCTION machine and try and compete?

Are the factory guys really cheating this much?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2005, 07:31:00 am by grasshopper »
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lbk

Re: Why AMA road racing will never be big time...
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2005, 07:41:37 am »
I think the VIN issue and Motorcycling popularity are two seperate issues.

Somehow I don't think the majority of NASCAR fans are fans and enjoy the show because of how fair the rules are.
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Protein Filled

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Re: Why AMA road racing will never be big time...
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2005, 07:53:50 am »
Quote
  Are the factory guys really cheating this much?


Yes and no!  Depends on what you call cheating, but the reality is that they can, so why not? They can look at a bunch of heads that come off the production line and pick the best one. They can also pick the straightest frames or make custom frames for themselves, etc. The one thing I don't get is why would they go through all that trouble and not stamp a VIN number on the bikes? Is it that difficult for them? I wouldn't think so... Also, with NASCAR, they all puch the lines as well.  Nothing new there. The crew chiefs say that their job is to cheat!
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WebCrush

Re: Why AMA road racing will never be big time...
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2005, 07:57:38 am »
Quote
Don't get me wrong, I do realize that the top factory riders are extremely talented individuals, but how do they run away so far from the field? What is done to the "PRODUCTION FACTORY MACHINES" that privateers can't do?



They can hand pick each piston, rod, crank, etc from the parts floor to build their bikes allowing for a better balanced engine.

also, with their unlimited budgets, they can run their engine tolerances real loose for extra hp as this requires a rebuild after every race

$4000 Ohlins fork cartridges I'm sure add some.

Oh yea, and the guys are stupid fast! :D
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Jeff

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Re: Why AMA road racing will never be big time...
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2005, 07:58:33 am »
You're right about the nascar fans.  I just made the connection that once you get really plowed, the world spins in a single counter-clockwise direction.  Thus nascar is the  only sport they can really watch.
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spyderchick

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Re: Why AMA road racing will never be big time...
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2005, 07:59:28 am »
Quote
You're right about the nascar fans.  I just made the connection that once you get really plowed, the world spins in a single counter-clockwise direction.  Thus nascar is the  only sport they can really watch.



;D
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