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Qualifying

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cardzilla

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Qualifying
« on: July 28, 2004, 07:58:17 pm »
Ok, I recently returned to roadracing after a ten year hiatus.  When I originally raced, qualifying at a club level was a pipe dream.  It seems now, with the transponders, it should be a cake walk... especially with the practice Saturday, race Sunday format (Twin sprints would be a little harder, but feasible).  CCS officials manage to get it done for unlimited GP, why not all classes?  Not to slight any other riders, but I spend 4 laps getting from last to fourth only to find out the top three had left the building !  I am not the greatest passer because I am way too courteous, safety being key, however my lap times are usually in the top two or three... hmmm.  Anyway, I'm sure you guys who have been racing the past few years have argued this point, so forgive me if that is the case, but what will it take to get CCS to adopt this format?
 I know the usual responses: "get a better start", "learn to pass better", etc., but why not use that start to get a well earned jump on your closest competitor instead of catching up to the guy three spots behind him?
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Larry Dodson
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2004 Yamaha R1 Superbike

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ecumike

Re: Qualifying
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2004, 08:14:10 pm »
NO can do.. we can barely get in all the races in on Sat and Sun as it is.

Where are you  FL?  Reason I ask is Henry runs things differently than the rest of the regions.  

It would take too long, too much work, and I'd rather just race than have qualifying also.
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GSXR RACER MIKE

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Re: Qualifying
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2004, 08:51:37 pm »
     Your right, this has been discussed into oblivion! It all comes down to not enough time to qualify every class and then how to assure that the correct bike is being used to qualify with. In ULGP you can run basically anything so there isn't a question of if the bike that was run during qualifying was legal for ULGP.

    The obvious solution is to pre-register for your races if you want to run up front from the start. It doesn't cost you any more money to enter ahead of time and once you start doing it you'll probably realize it's alot faster at registration at the track when your pre-registered. It does require a commitment ahead of time to attend an event when you pre-register, but your rewarded for that commitment by having a good starting position. Some people seem to think that you have to be rich to be pre-entered, but all you do is send in your 1st entry of the season at least 2 weeks early and continue that cycle thru-out the season, doesn't cost a dime more (actually some events reward lower entry fees to those that pre-enter, like at the Race of Champions). Pre-entry speeds up registration for the racers and staff alike and makes it so the grids can already be partially finished before CCS staff arrive at the track. Just make sure that if you fax in your pre-entry that you recieve a confirmation fax of CCS recieving your entry (I fax my pre-entry to CCS at my local Kinko's copy center, which gives you a confirmation of CCS recieving it).
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Mike Williams - 2 GSXR 750's
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Clay

Re: Qualifying
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2004, 09:11:36 pm »
I personally think it should be done by points.  Those who have the most points tend to have the most skill and/or desire to be up front by attending all the races.  Being a racer, I live paycheck to paycheck to pay for this stuff...so I don't have the money to pre-register months in advance.  :(  
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ecumike

Re: Qualifying
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2004, 09:34:03 pm »
Yup Clay.. as Mike said.. been there, done that.

Pros to gridding by registration... the fast guys don't always have the advantage of always being up front. It's anyone's game.

Pros to gridding by points... rewards those consistent/fast guys.

However.. as I see it... if you're consistent enough that you're leading in points.. it's more than likely that you're planning or have planned to goto most of the races no?... so if you know this...man... :)  then you would/should pre-enter anyways. :)  


And btw... it doesn't take months in advance to get a good grid position :)
« Last Edit: July 28, 2004, 09:35:15 pm by ecumike »
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Clay

Re: Qualifying
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2004, 09:50:08 pm »
At some races it does...like VIR and Barber!  But I just don't have the money to pay for races so far in advance when I'm spending on so many other things.  Luckily, I'm finally pre-registered for the rest of my races this year (except the ROC) just because I've won enough certs to do so.  

I really feal the "fair" way to do things is grid by points.  Gridding by registration is a matter of who has the biggest wallet.  :(

I would like to see the AM Unl GP do qualifying though.  It's for the same amount of money as the experts race for, so I don't think qualifying is a bad idea.  But I agree, qualifying for each race would be a joke!
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GSXR RACER MIKE

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Re: Qualifying
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2004, 10:02:38 pm »
Quote
I personally think it should be done by points.  Those who have the most points tend to have the most skill and/or desire to be up front by attending all the races.


    That isn't exactly true Clay. I ran 4 classes the whole season last year across 3 regions as more of a recreational effort than a serious race effort. I was running at a comfortable pace at the back of the pack with no real desire to push at the front of the pack last season. Low and behold about 3/4 of the way thru the season I was winning 9 championships and was top 3 in the other 3 classes, all while finishing at the back in every race I entered all season. I personally don't think points would really be the way to go, though it would reward those that are committed to the whole season.

Quote
 Being a racer, I live paycheck to paycheck to pay for this stuff...so I don't have the money to pre-register months in advance.  :(  


Being in the middle of the season I will admit that it's a little more difficult to start pre-entering along with paying for the current events that your not pre-entered for. But what I suggest is to think ahead toward the next season when this season ends and start putting away a certain amount of money every week for pre-entry next season. What ever your putting aside now for racing expenses should be continued during the off-season so your ready when next season approaches. That way you could do like I use to do, which was to be pre-entered for the next 2 races all season. After I raced an event I would pre-enter again so as to re-establish the 2 events worth of pre-entry. The nice thing about doing this also is that at the end of the season (when money is getting really tight) you'll be done entering for anymore races when there's still 2 more events left.
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Smites are a cowards way of feeling brave!   :jerkoff:
Mike Williams - 2 GSXR 750's
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Racing exclusively with CCS since '96
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cstem

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Re: Qualifying
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2004, 12:23:11 am »
The only way to qualify all races is to add aobut 4 hours of daylight to the day.  Prereg is the way to go.  Saying that is for rich guys is a farce.  If you have a race in thirty days, that you have know about for 4 months, you have had plenty of time to save up for a preentry unless you were unemployed for three of those months, in which case you should probably be paying all the late bills and not racing.  I think gridding by points, while it would work, screws the up and coming learning racer.  We have all been told you get faster by riding and racing with those faster than you.  How can you have a chance to do that if the top 5 guys get off the front and are gone on the first lap?  
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The voice of the Southwest.

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racen123

Re: Qualifying
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2004, 12:47:55 am »
Gridding by pre entry is a better idea I think. I went to Road A with WERA, who grid by points, I'm not saying I am as fast as Geoff May who was winning everything but I had same lap times as 2nd, 3rd, 4th, which could have been Suzuki money in my pocket. Oh well grid by points so I had to start 2nd wave, 20th row and such. People whp pre enter usually are slow, they want to be further up so they can finish up better, them being slower makes it easier to pass, so I think CCS has the right idea, but AMA has the best idea, make less classes and add qualifying.
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cardzilla

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Re: Qualifying
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2004, 05:05:40 am »
You got it racen123, less classes!  But you guys do bring up a point I hadn't thought of, making sure you are qualifying on the right bike.  Just for the record, I am pre registering for future races, it just doesn't seem fair to someone who may be faster (I know that is how I feel when it is me who gets held up).  But, I guess it is the best we have unless you want to tour the U.S.A
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Larry Dodson
CCS # 22
2004 Yamaha R1 Superbike

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KBOlsen

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Re: Qualifying
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2004, 06:18:44 am »
(sticking my spoon ALL the way into the pot...)

Fewer classes?  What classes do ya'all propose be eliminated?
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CCS AM 815... or was that 158?

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Super Dave

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Re: Qualifying
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2004, 06:32:13 am »
Quote
(sticking my spoon ALL the way into the pot...)

Fewer classes?  What classes do ya'all propose be eliminated?


Eliminate GP classes or Superbike classes.

A guy running MWGP is eliglible for MWSB.  Eliminate MWSB.

Get rid of HWSB and put them in ULGP.

Get rid of LWSB and put them in LWGP.

Just gained 45 minutes on the schedule there.

Really want to make a dent, put three GT races each on Saturdays for amateurs and experts.  GTL, GTU, GTO

Amatuers can have a reasonable schedule of races on Sunday.

Reduce expert races to Twins, Lightweight Superbike (Thunderbike with TZ250?), Sportbike, Formula Sportbike, and Unlimited GP.  Double the length of the race, add qualifying and give our a purse that pays down the grid.

Keep a Formula 40 class.

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Super Dave