Qualifying

[Super Dave]

Why?  Noobs and guys that kind of get it.  Combine that with guys that kind of get it and the guys that are trying to race for some potential manufacturers contingency money...  

There are amatuers running around Blackhawk Farms Raceway on 600's doing 1;50's.  I'm into the eleven's.  I can do a 2:06 in my old Ford Van on the track damp, while eating sunflower seeds, and not going over 60MPH in the straights.

I can imagine the terror of approaching a rider in the 1:50's wondering where they are going to go.

I also am very aware of the discomfort that a rider in the 1:50's, 1:30's, and 1:20's feels when being approached from behind by faster riders.

We can't make classes for everyone.

But there was a time not so long ago that the jump, even financially, to AMA Pro wasn't so bad.  Now, the cost of admission has gone up.  With people like "No Limits" taking privateer budgets to new heights...and taking cash and support that was once distributed out to more than one team...the club level competition is a bit different.

Robert Jensen and Larry Denning have no reason to go to AMA events.  I don't unless my program takes me to such a venue to create some kind of return for my program that would be beneficial because of the exposure to a larger base of attendees.

CCS hasn't been affiliated with the AMA since 1994.  I think it's time to start acting like a feeder, and it's not so much any more, and recognize that CCS needs to stand alone and offer something different and unique in the market place that will satisfy more riders, create a more level "playing" field for the various skill levels of the riders there.  That will keep riders in longer, creating a little less turn over, more entrants, maybe more spectator interest (or at least create some interest), and that will keep CCE making a little money.  Might even be enough there that Kevin Elliott can offer some more purse paying classes.

I won't let go of the idea that you still need contingency and purses for the amateur class.  I also still believe that experts should get paid more and deeper in the field.  

Clay, if I'm getting the impression that you're a fair rider, you'd probably wouldn't be in my "amatuer" classification.

[Super Dave]

Amateurs - New riders.  Limited experience.  Bump to next level based on riders desire to move up and approval by referee, etc.

Example...guy doing 1:53's at Blackhawk...he's going to stay there.  Benji Thornton - shows up and is competitive.  You're gonna make Benji stay in the amateur class for a short period of time to know that he's safe to move on.

No purses, no contingency, very limited classes...maybe only by displacement with the opportunity to bump up a class.  No championships.

Sportsman?....I don't have a cool name.  Junior, expert, etc...just understand that it's the next step up.

Yes, we can have contingency and maybe some purses.

This category might be the destination for most racers.  This is the "we're racing for fun.  These riders "get it".  They are having fun, they are chasing a championship.

In recent years, I've watched riders become emotionally and physically drained with the mental problems in trying to run up front as current experts.  It's just not their cup of tea.  The jump can be big.  For some, they thrive, but that isn't everyone.

The sportsman class, like I said, would be the destination class for many riders.  Dawn, this might be where Paul would be.  

There would be more opportunities for a diverse selection of classes.

Pro?...wouldn't be any different than the current expert riders, but it would have to be a little different.  

You couldn't "force" a rider into this category.  I would expect less races, longer races, potential qualifying, a fair purse, and higher entry fees.  

I await more input...

[Clay]

Ok, now that I understand it more, that sounds like a great game plan Dave!  Personally, my only goal is to "make it" someday.  I'm working hard because I want to race in the big leagues.  I want to be the next Geoff May or Josh Hayes.  I know I'll never be factory sponsored (I'm too old at 27  ::)) but the privateer programs are really starting to take off.  I can't wait to go expert.  I'm still really enjoying this year racing in the amateurs, but I know that no one cares what I do here.  A program like you've suggested really could help those of us out that want to keep moving up the ladder.  

So, I assume you have to "prove" yourself in the true amateur leagues before you can move up to the sportsman rank?  That's the biggest kicker for me.  I think you should be stuck in the lower levels until it's noticeable that you're ready to move into the bigger/better group.  I tell you, I've lost so many holeshots this year because I was scared not knowing what that guy in front of me was going to do.  I look forward to being able to trust those guys around me to hold their line.  I also look forward to the greater challenge.  :)

[EX#996]

This category might be the destination for most racers.  This is the "we're racing for fun.  These riders "get it".  They are having fun, they are chasing a championship.

Yep, Paul would definately be in the "sportsman" class.  He has no desire to run 'pro', he's just looking for some friendly competition and to see who can out BS who after the race.

Dawn   ;)

[Super Dave]

Ok, so I've got two people interested...LOL!

Next step is to come up with some really specific ideas on the matter...

I think we'd need to move something over to Rules & Regs?

[Clay]

Well, the best way to get these ideas out would be to make an announcement about them at the big races like VIR/Barber/RA and such.  I don't know, pass out flyers at the front gate and such.  Discussing this on the BBS is discussing it with only a very small majority of the actual "family".

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

Well, the best way to get these ideas out would be to make an announcement about them at the big races like VIR/Barber/RA and such.  I don't know, pass out flyers at the front gate and such.  Discussing this on the BBS is discussing it with only a very small majority of the actual "family".

     Even though those of us regulars here on the board represent only a small portion of the racers thru-out CCS, word of mouth by us could maybe work wonders. But also if there are too many people involved it would probably never get anywhere because you can't make everyone happy. If we have fewer people debating the subject based on what they are hearing at the track, maybe we could get somewhere.

     At this time I would probably persue the Sportsman class due to money constraints (looking to buy a house). But the 'go fast bug' has been biting at me on and off this year, so I don't know about next season? The recreational racing as of late is needing something more, so maybe next season? I'm going to have to put my head down 1 of these events and see if I can still go fast.

     So Dave, if I remember right when this issue was being discussed before you said that a racer wouldn't be able to bounce back and forth between the top 2 levels, is this correct? I would be concerned that if someone wanted to 'go hard' in the 'Pro' classes that there wouldn't be enough of a variety of classes that they could be competative in without having multiple bikes. What would you suggest as an answer for this? What type of classes would you suggest for the 'Pro' classes? What type of bikes would be allowed in those classes? Would there be requirements to race in the 'Pro' races, other than at least being of the Sportsman level?

[Super Dave]

So Dave, if I remember right when this issue was being discussed before you said that a racer wouldn't be able to bounce back and forth between the top 2 levels, is this correct? I would be concerned that if someone wanted to 'go hard' in the 'Pro' classes that there wouldn't be enough of a variety of classes that they could be competative in without having multiple bikes. What would you suggest as an answer for this? What type of classes would you suggest for the 'Pro' classes? What type of bikes would be allowed in those classes? Would there be requirements to race in the 'Pro' races, other than at least being of the Sportsman level?

You'd have to allow bouncing of some kind.  At a point, a rider may just want to "have fun."  So, keeping them a "pro" might just force them out.

Classes for "pro"...well...something like the premier classes of FUSA/AMA Pro.  Thunderbike type class, a 600 class, a 750 class, a 1000 class.  Something for big twins.  No F40 stuff.   GP bikes.  

I really don't know all the specifics...  I'm makin it up...

[Eric Kelcher]

Big kicker on making three classes, I forgot to mention before, is that you have now diluted the upper and removed the lower part of the rider demongraphic and thus only class that would qualify for contignency would be the middle class(Junior Ex/ Sportsman, whatever).

[motomadness]

Eric,

Although I have not read everyone notes thoroughly, I believe Dave's idea would be great.  Let's face it, there are riders that like racing more than going to track days, even if they will never collect contingency for anything.  They are racers that will never aspire to becoming pro's, which is fine, but that doesn't stop them from competing.  Then there are those that do race professionally and at the club level that would benefit from a profittable skills-based, professional quality (race distance and program appearance and development requirements) that will make CCS more money and attract more attention to both CCS and FUSA.

I volunteer to donate $15 to the generation of a mailing circular (1-pager) that CCS or CCS racers can send to the membership to propose these changes before the open issue period this Fall.  This should probably be completed by the end of August to allow for more discussion.

[Clay]

Yeah, you can't knock out all of the classes and run it like FUSA.  I say, take out the superbike races and give that time to the "amateur" racers.  Take away a paying GP for the "sportsman" class and add a little bit of a payout to SS.  I don't know...something though.  

I guess the biggest thing is, being a "poor" racer I can only do so much.  I can only have one bike, so I depend on alot of the classes to allow me to race.  

[J-Janisch]

i was thinking something along the lines of every 1st year rider goes in2 a beginner classification.  If that rider is 1 who is by far that amazing the head guy at the racetrack or at ccs would make the decision 2 move them 2 amatuer.  ppl could only b in the beginner class 4 there 1st year and they are then put in2 amatuer.  after that they could stay amatuer as long as they wanted unless they have reached a certain lap time at a certain track, more then likely blackhawk, since midwest is there the most.  expert is the final rank, have lightweight class, all sv's buells' and wat not in that class, then middleweight, heavyweight, and unlimited as the only classes.
idk, i just thought that it would a good idea in my mind.