Friggin lappers!!!!

[r6_philly]

I knwo almost nothing about racing... Ive never been at a track, never worked in WSB or AMA, and never worked for anyone in racing. I dont know anyone, ride with anyone, write for magazines, instruct, nada, Hell, I cant even get my knee down, and I dont know how to build bikes... and there is no WAY that I do 50 plus track days a year.. none..

oh gosh...

everyone on this board and their mom can do what you said, plus that some of us RACE. NOW. Not on bias ply tires and 250 singles.

Worked WSB and AMA? if you had cleaned the windshields of a team then you had worked for them. What did you do?

50 plus track days? What does that prove? I do that many track days plus I ride more sessions. Does that mean I can talk more smack than you and my opionion is more valid?

Because I instruct, ride, build bikes and RACE, NOW, on BIKES that are SIMILIAR to the bikes we are talking about.

And to show your technical ignorance you must make a comment over in the other thread.

then NO you do not know squat, and you proved it VERY well.

Please respond, I KNOW I got more time than you to "discuss" this.

Besides I type faster. And I type more. So I must know better.

[Super Dave]

Dave, I respect your opinion, as you know, but it isnt all about the equipment to run up front, its about talent. If you have the talent, you get the equipment. Most of the time anyways. Im Fat man. 6' 275lbs. 54in chest, 38in waist. the weight and size has a LOT to do with why I dont race.... Givin up 10 hp to you lil guys right off the bat! LOL

Tallent can go a long way, but the availability of anything proper isn't there for someone that even has money...Attack bought Yosh's FI bodies, but Yosh won't sell the wiring or the box, right?  Took them all year to get it going, and when they did...15 more HP.  That's BS.  Instantly, Jason was on the podium, right?  Jason did not suddenly become tallented.

As for size...

Scott Gray was a really big guy.

Quarterley was a lot taller than you and still weighed in at 200.  He still won a Superbike race.

Frank, Dean is the one that HIT scott and knocked him into the path of the other bike, who saw him and was taking evasive action. And no, I cant remember who it was. I remember the accident like it is burned into my brain. The sound still makes me want to puke.

Scott still did a bone headed thing.  All of the secondary action by everyone else is...secondary.  Because a "tallented" rider makes a mistake, it doesn't make it someone elses fault when they get beaned.  And again, that was the second time Scott screwed up at Daytona.

JEf4Y,  Wow, so you are telling me that none of the riders in superbike have any talent, and if you took out the dangersquad of backmarkers that the resulting talent pool would be so shallow that it would be akin to watching a dyno shootout.

The first race occured when the second guy invented the wheel.  Still a pretty boring race.  A mere twelve to nineteen riders on a grid with only a select few with internals in the engines and suspensions that will allow them an advantage over the others.  Really always becomes several races.  I would be very boring.  That IS the state of motorcycle racing.  That's why it only costs, what, $100 to enter a superbike race...they need the entries.  I think it's ten's of thousands to enter a Winston Cup NASCAR race.  Hey, they take 30 some of the top qualifiers and they have lappers and it's rather heavily watched and marketed.  I think the winner of Dover took home about $113,000 for the win.  Barber's Superbike winner?  Bet it wasn't even $13k.

Eric said the same thing as me... It was a great race til the lappers ruined it. Whats HIS racing resume?

Does it matter?

I don't see him taking his hard earned money in trying to change anything.  King Kenny had a team.  I work with people.  Complaining does nothing.  Come up with three ideas that are workable for a solution.  Be active.  How about we put the superbike race back into 600 Supersport trim?  Then Eric can complain about Kurtis again.

Just because a racer is fast...it certainly doesn't make him smart.  Eric's a nice guy and all, I like him, but, bottom line, most racers can't find their A$$ with their hands at that level.  They are paid to race...not give advice about things.

Maybe its just the wrong place at the wrong time, but there shouldnt BE that place in superbike or WSB or Motogp.

The US is, what, the second largest motorcycle market in the world?  The manfacturers have direct input and an amount of control in the market and the AMA.  Yet, their support of this "beloved sport" is what we have:  pretty poor.  So, when you get paid the bucks to ride for them, you are expected to be able to move through the riders that you are faster than.

If safety were actually a concern in their mind, they could save a lot of money by supporting more teams rather than having a tiny amount of riders in their stable.  The process would envigorate the sport with more teams on equal footing, better racing, better coverage, more excitement, more money for the people involved.  Less direct involvment for the manufacturers...what they don't want.

I've had an opportunity to spend time with Gary Fisher and Gary Nixon and some guys like that.  There is a real difference between racing "then" and racing "now".  Then, there were actually about 25 guys that could win the race.  Now, it's limited to maybe three or four.  Tallent is relative and it's not.  Mike Hailwood would have probably been a good motorcycle racer today as he was then.  But could he win races on Shawn Higbee's bike when he was racing against Mat Mladin on the Yosh Suzuki?  Probably not.  The manufacturers already know the outcomes, more or less.  And they pay big bucks to make sure that's how it works.  

[Super Dave]

Heres my whole deal with all this BS... I express my opinion and it turns into a bunch of BS... Typical internet hero BS...

In any event...

Its much the same as the drain plug incident at VIR...

Picture its YOU, or better yet, your son or daughter thats out on track racing, and some backmarker  runs with a loose drain plug...

What feeling do you think went though Dave Bostrom's stomach as he watched Ben, or Yvon or Linnea's?? How about if the oil drain plug had fallen out at the top of the corkscrew, or going into trun one at Brainerd? Does it take an experience like Kato's to get the AMA to tighten things up? How many guys have to get injured or killed before its ok not to let everyone with a lisc race?

No hero's here, really.

Reality?

What happened to AMA final tech?  Used to exist.  Might have helped, but because the manufacturers made a stink, those rules get changed.

Even then, tech didn't help Tom Kipp when the Yosh boys, a bunch of backmarkers, didn't even bother tightening the drop outs on his Superbike.  The front wheel came off heading into turn three at Brainerd.  Nice.

Mistakes by the factories are usually well hidden.  Those by mortals are usually taken, ran with, and then the people are crusified for being mortal.  

Ben made an error.  Doesn't make him a bad guy.  Doesn't make him a bad racer.  Stuff like that can happen.  I think Ben has crashed at one time before this year.  This time, it happened to take out many other riders.  

[Super Dave]

The top riders can complain all they want about lappers when the playing field is leveled a bit by the manufacturers.  

Until then, the manufacturers are to blame for the problems in AMA Superbike racing.  

Motorcycle people may not like NASCAR, but at least their is a set of attainable rules with a governing body that enforces and maintains rules.  Teams concentrate on preparation, then innovation, in an attempt to find an advantage for their tallented rider.

Mr Jacobi is pretty darn tallented.  Can we call his bike a "Superbike"?  I'd bet that maybe it has 16.5 wheels, but probably no Yosh FI system.  Might be lucky to have found a works team in Europe that was willing to sell a swingarm to him.  Forks?  Maybe he's using Showa forks off a GSXR750 since Showa and Ohlins won't sell you anything near what Yosh, Kaw, and Honda are using.

The top two to three guys in qualifying are just on.  But a majority of the guys behind are still working up to better set ups.  Even back to fortieth.  Susupension is a real key.  If no one can get what a select few can get, even if they have the money, it shouldn't be allowed.  This is Superbike racing, a production based racing series.  Not GP bikes.  NASCAR may use tubular frames, but they still have to use items that are available.  That's what makes NASCAR marketable, profitable, and fun for some people to watch....And why motorcycle road racing in the US...well, it's just kind of gay... 8)

[motomadness]

Super Dave,

What about the claiming rules?  Shouldn't they help out the poor privateer?  Or are they limited to only certain parts?

[tigerblade]

Super Dave,

What about the claiming rules?  Shouldn't they help out the poor privateer?  Or are they limited to only certain parts?

Doesn't that just put a burr in the factory's saddle? Wouldn't think it would be worth it to a top privateer who holds out hope for a factory ride someday.  

IMHO: I know, question was aimed at Dave.   ;D

[Super Dave]

Doesn't that just put a burr in the factory's saddle? Wouldn't think it would be worth it to a top privateer who holds out hope for a factory ride someday.  

IMHO: I know, question was aimed at Dave.   ;D

You can call me:  Mr Rosno....LOL!

Yeah, it would.  I stated before, Quarterley could have claimed the carbs off the Commonwealth Honda bikes...there were people willing to put up the money ($3500 for claim of carbs at the time, I think), and even people willing to put up $5000 to buy them.  But they wouldn't sell, and claiming wouldn't score points for Dale.

Terry Vance claimed the carbs off of the Yosh bikes (I think they were like magnesium bodied Kehin's or something) one year.  Can't remember if that was 1988 or 1989.  Might have been 1989, because I think everyone was using the second generation GSXR then.  Anyway, Vance & Hines became the Yamaha team in Road Racing.  I think that soon after the Suzuki/V&H relationship ended in Drag Racing.  The carb issue was surely some kind of mitigating factor.

Anyone remember the guy that claimed the Yosh forks a couple of years ago?  He did follow the rules.  Doesn't matter about anything else.

[Steviebee]

wow what a waist of time !! all 8 pages.
No need to comment about Ben's mistake.
Want to get rid of lappers !!  

How bout kicking out the Factories !!! They only support 6 guys anyways.  We dont watch racing to see a race with 6 guys in it do we !  Thats why barely anyone watches these things.  There's no friggen competetion!  Why not use there multi million dollar race budget and put it into the purse for the race.  4400$ for a superbike win.  WTF is that  ITS PEANUTS.  I thought this was PRO racing ?

Hey it worked for NASCAR !!!

[Super Dave]

4400$ for a superbike win.  WTF is that  ITS PEANUTS.  I thought this was PRO racing ?

Hey it worked for NASCAR !!!

NASCAR has a set of rules that are attainable and enforceable.  It makes it so that it doesn't make sense for Ford, Dodge, Chevy (Pontiac) to have factory teams.  Too much talent available to say that one team will win.  So, the money needs to be spread around in the form of SUPPORT so that they can have teams running at the front.  Makes for a better series, and an actual career for the drivers, crew chiefs, crew guys, truck drivers, etc.  Some may not like NASCAR because it is cars and they are going around an oval...but look at the plan.  It worked.  Continues to.  AMA motorcycle racing hasn't done much of anything.  Just bump in the road.  Why should we even watch?

And with a $4400 purse for first...you can't even by a Suzuki SV650.  It is a joke.  That's what they should do...award the purse in the form of prizes.  20th place...Free appetizers for you and five friends at Applebee's!

[tigerblade]

You can call me:  Mr Rosno....LOL!

How 'bout I call you Shnookums?  

[Super Dave]

Only if we can all have a group hug...

 ;)

[SE#39]

Dave -- it was Ashmead who claimed a set of mag carbs from Honda in '88. Ashmead went on to win the '89 Daytona 200.
When Yom Kipper's front wheel came off in turn 3 at Brainard the wheel continued on and collected Dean Adams in the nutz while he was trying to photograph the crashing bike.
 
Ben Bostrom rammed Jacobi's swingarm. A novice level mistake.