A Question for the CCS Racer

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

I would by one, but I agree there must be a rental option that's not so cost prohibitive that it discourages people from racing. Even though I've never raced with any organization other than CCS, I do like the idea of having a common system in place that can be used with multiple race org's. I can also see how the possibility of having your results from any event using this system being displayed all in one place would be nice as well (I assume that theres a unique user ID that remains constant with a personal transponder making it automatic when the racing org's add your results to the website).

Concerning the discussion here about additional cost to the racers, I think it's fair to add that this will reduce the operating costs of CCS races, eliminate the hastle at every event of trying to get everyones transponders back, and be one less thing that's required during registration. I think from a business operation point of view everyone having their own transponder is a win situation all around, it will help in streamlining CCS operations (just like industry is doing with 'lean manufacturing' practices today).

Theres been mention of $60 rental costs, does that respectively mean if we all had our own transponders that entry fees would be lowered by somewhere from $5 to $15 per class to compensate the average racer per event, or result in no increases in race entry fees for a while and/or adding possible payouts? If there was a resulting reduction in race entry cost I think everyone having their own personal transponder would be better recieved.

[f3racer]

I would by one, but I agree there must be a rental option that's not so cost prohibitive that it discourages people from racing. Even though I've never raced with any organization other than CCS, I do like the idea of having a common system in place that can be used with multiple race org's. I can also see how the possibility of having your results from any event using this system being displayed all in one place would be nice as well (I assume that theres a unique user ID that remains constant with a personal transponder making it automatic when the racing org's add your results to the website).

Concerning the discussion here about additional cost to the racers, I think it's fair to add that this will reduce the operating costs of CCS races, eliminate the hastle at every event of trying to get everyones transponders back, and be one less thing that's required during registration. I think from a business operation point of view everyone having their own transponder is a win situation all around, it will help in streamlining CCS operations (just like industry is doing with 'lean manufacturing' practices today).

Theres been mention of $60 rental costs, does that respectively mean if we all had our own transponders that entry fees would be lowered by somewhere from $5 to $15 per class to compensate the average racer per event, or result in no increases in race entry fees for a while and/or adding possible payouts? If there was a resulting reduction in race entry cost I think everyone having their own personal transponder would be better recieved.

your probably right, but for some of us long term payback isnt much of an option when we need to have the 420 up front. maybe giving out some sort of internal financing option. say....at the beginning of the season when we have to renew our licenses add $50 to the license renewal for a down payment. each race that person will have to pay $20 dollars on top of the cost of entry fees until paid for. at the end of the season if the transponder isnt paid for then the person will not be allowed to renew the license the next year until it is caught up. it gives us budget minded people a whole season to pay the 420.

[mikendzel]

I have to agree with Mark about how we complain that the cost of racing is soooo expensive but yet agree to accept to purchase a transponder that will add to the yearly cost of your racing budget. 
One of the biggest reasons I race with CCS and not WERA is so I do not have to buy that transponder along with other reasons, but I feel the system is working just great as it is now with showing up and receiving and then returning the transponder when racing is over.  That is no more added cost to me.  If you think about it, for people running the MA series that is another $42 per weekend for 10 races thoughout the year which could be used for gas, gate fee, food or whatever. 

Sorry Kevin, but in a slumping economy, I have to say NO as this puts another damper on my racings bottom line!!

BOB MICHAEL
B&E MOTORSPORTS
#24
KTM RC8R

+1

1 of the 3 reasons I don't race WERA

[skiandclimb]

I agree with Geno. There's no reason to tag this onto the racers right now.
Am I taking crazy pills, or didn't HPT just cancel a round, due to "financial reasons"????
Isn't there talk of the GP region being phased out, completely and blended into MW?
Isn't there already talk about GIR closing its doors for 2011?
I have already put off buying a new race bike for next season, because I am not sure there will even BE a "next season" for me right now.
So, am I willing to shell out $420 just because there's issues loading lap times onto some web site?!?!?   Do the transponders work as they are, or was there some sort of terrible calamity that we need a whole new system?
If they turn in viable lap times, then there's no need to change them. If this all comes down to being able to migrate data to some lap times web site.....sheesh.  Who cares? I'm not willing to shell out $420 just to see my lap times on a web site.  Sorry.

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

Remember, we already rent the transponders, it's just always been incorporated into the race entry fees. Had CCS been itemizing our race entry fees into what our money was going toward it would have shown a portion going toward a transponder rental cost at every event you've ever raced in, that's a factor in why your 1st entries per event costs so much.

Between entry fees, gate fees, travel & lodging costs, race fuel, tires, lost wages from missing work, etc., the cost of the transponder isn't even the true cost of a single race event for the average racer - and unless you destroy it then its a 1 time purchase that you don't make again. If you don't race more than 1 or 2 events per season then renting a transponder should be a relatively negligible cost per season. If you start setting aside $2 per day right now you'll have enough money to pay for the $420 transponder unit around the start of next season.

I look at it from the business aspect, many businesses are struggling to survive - it's either they sink or do what ever they have to do to stay alive. There's a substantial cost involved in CCS renting the transponders that we use, if eliminating transponder rental costs helps CCS to stay a float I'm all for it. The streamlining created for CCS by having personal transponders for each racer would be worth it in itself - no more having to enter in unique transponder ID's for every racer at every event across the nation. Your personal transponders unique ID code would be entered in to your personal racer profile on CCS's computer system and would never have to be entered in again, that would eliminate so many headaches in itself - that's just plain & simple smart business!

If this helps CCS cut costs in order to help make it thru tough times I think it would be selfish of us as racers to not do our part and make a relatively minor investment in helping the bigger picture.

[bel-biv]

Well said, Mike

I think the excuse of having to buy a trnsponder being the difference between racing or not rings hollow.
It would streamline CCS' administrative overhead, expedite lap time uploads, and standardize club racing timing systems.  I think it makes sense.  And no, I don't already own one.

I agree with others who have questioned the point of making this a poll
If you want to do it, then do it and tell us what we need to do to go racing next year
Asking first just begs for more resentment when you ultimately make the call

[tstruyk]

Well said, Mike

I think the excuse of having to buy a trnsponder being the difference between racing or not rings hollow.
It would streamline CCS' administrative overhead, expedite lap time uploads, and standardize club racing timing systems.  I think it makes sense.  And no, I don't already own one.

I agree with others who have questioned the point of making this a poll
If you want to do it, then do it and tell us what we need to do to go racing next year
Asking first just begs for more resentment when you ultimately make the call

that about sums up my thoughts!

[SVbadguy]

Some of you mentioning cost as a factor ought to take a look at your race programs.

Bob, you're racing an RC8.

Mark, you do every event in three regions.

[Super Dave]

Besides, CCS already has transponders!

Well, that never made them free. 

No matter what, electronic scoring is something that is used in almost all motorcycle road racing.  Whether one buys their own transmitter or it is supplied by the organization, you're paying for it.

Does it add a cost?  Sure, but the transmitter actually has value when you're done with it.  It's not like a set of tires that is spent after using them so many laps. 

CCS buys them and each CCS competitor pays for them within the fees they pay.  So, no, they aren't free at all. 

[roadracer162]

I call myself fortunate that I race in the Florida Region. When we began using the transponders the race fees didn't go up. In fact we are paying the same fees as we did back in say...2005(Thank You Henry DeGouw). Our first race is $55 and every race thereafter is $55. We do get a Saturday practice day(now will be a CCS track day) for a convenient $75.

So, free transpoder? Yes I could say it is.

Now, wouldn't you rather me spend that $420 on more racing(race fee) instead of buying a transponder?

In speculation that an AMB transponder must be purchased or rented for the weekend, do you really think the racing fees are gonna come down?

Budget? Yes I do and I could put away that $2 for a transpnder or I could put that $2 to that part I have been waiting oh so long to get just to end that chatter these emulators just aren't solving.

Now if the decision is made that we don't get the AMB transponders, will we lose any racers?  If we do get the AMB transponders will there be less racers?

Continue...

[skiandclimb]

Our first race is $55 and every race thereafter is $55. We do get a Saturday practice day(now will be a CCS track day) for a convenient $75.

Wow.....I guess the rest of us have been taking it up the kiester! Apparently, our transponder rental fee is worth somewhere in the realm of $30 then.....

Look, I'm all for being on par with other racing org's. And if this system is better- great, maybe the transition shoul dbe done. But if so- would the rest of us (non Florida folks, that is) get back to $55/$55 pricing, or would we still be paying the $60/$80 price PLUS the cost of the new and improved transponder?

Sorry for the harsh sounding tone, but our sport is dying off faster than beers at a redneck cookout, and we're now talking about having to drop more $$$? 

I get that this would cut costs for CCS, and if it does- and that helps the company stay afloat, then I am all for it....as long as the current transponder rental fee is removed from entries.

Discuss.

[Super Dave]

...as long as the current transponder rental fee is removed from entries.

Discuss.

Well, that presupposes that other fees associated with operations don't go up...

Insurance is tied to the markets, litigation, etc.

Track rentals and the competition for weekend dates with cars, bicycles, trackdays, and so on along with the need to upgrade and maintain track facilities with similarly increasing overhead costs.


Just to throw out some examples, when I started racing, it was $30 for the first entry, $20 for the second, $10 for each one after.  They went up that year, but, in the overall scheme of things, it hasn't been a terrible increase over that long period of time.