Firebird video??

[Appleracing57]

What determines a 'Dangerous Track'? In my years racing with CCS it appears to me that Buttonwillow has more bikes that are totalled and bones broken than all of the other tracks combined and the only wall I've seen is on Pit Row. I know of several racers whose CCS career has ended after crashes at Buttonwillow due to bike damage and medical bills, not Firebird Main. No need to take cheap shots at the CCS Staff who are only there for you.

Hey Ray, what race do you plan on winning? I just checked with CCS and they don't list a 'Heavyweight' Formula 40?!?!

[RAY_HYMER]

Well.....I expect to win LW Formula 40!   ::)
I am taking the 89 GSXR750 to the Team AZ track day this Sunday at Firebird West to try it out.  If I like it, I will be racing that beast in October.  It's hugely loud, and it already dyno'd at 102hp, but I have never ridden it.  If I don't like it, I'll add it to my growing collection of loaner bikes!  Are you going to the track day?  We have a fairly large group of trouble makers going!!  Even Scot Welch is going! >:(

[Decreasing_Dave]

Wow...Cory must be having a bad day....

I've only raced the main track once.  It was my second-ever race.  I did well.  I even got to chase Kane around for a couple of laps until he got sick of me and left.  I like the track.

I will say though, it would take an MIT engineer to find a space to fit one more wall there though.  Everywhere you look, you see a 3' white monster.  I agree with Cory, more serious accidents have happened elsewhere than there at Firebird Main, but still, run-off would be nice.

I hope to be there in October but finances are playing a big part in my racing this year so I have to take it one day at a time.  Unlike last year, I'm not in contention for any championships so this is a good time for some financial recovery.

I hope (fingers crossed) to see everyone there.

Dave

[duc995@aol.com]

Cstem:  I think what he meant with his "CCS doesn't care about the riders..." comment was that he feels that CCS wouldn't use that track and put the riders in harms way, if they cared (more).  I am wondering if the reason that there are less crashes at a more dangerous track has something to do with the increased anxiety and fear levels actually creating a more cautious riding attitude in the racers.  I remember racing the a year ago and wondering why the same competitors that were leaving me in the dust were suddenly slow...after talking with them it was FEAR!  That's why...

[hisideterry]

I remember racing the a year ago and wondering why the same competitors that were leaving me in the dust were suddenly slow...after talking with them it was FEAR!  That's why...

The fast guys will still be going fast on the big track...

And I agree with Cory on every point. Firebird main is not more dangerous. More dangerous would be have more crashes and more severe injuries. There has been racing at the big track for many, many years and reality hasn't backed up the "more dangerous" comments.

Again, back to Buttonwillow, with no walls and the inordinantly high amount of crashes and severe injuries.

[digitalRoost]

Cstem:  I think what he meant with his "CCS doesn't care about the riders..." comment was that he feels that CCS wouldn't use that track and put the riders in harms way, if they cared (more).

That's part of it....but I think I need to clarify something that I was not clear on earlier.

My comments should have been directed at Clearchannel, not CCS (slight distinction here). My personal experience and opinion is that clearchannel tries to run CCS like it's a money making "show" and doesn't give the people running the series (CCS) the appropriate funding, resources or control. I may be wrong on that, but it's my observations after talking with people who work for CCS at the track. I was trying to say that if they (Clearchannel) cared more about their riders, then we wouldn't race at tracks that have walls in every corner where the potential outcome of a crash is much higher. There are a lot of other tracks we can race at in the Southwest.

I'm sorry if I offended you Cory. You and the other people who actually work at the track and in the office actually are awesome people. I shuould have stated my point more clearly so as to not point the finger at the wrong people. Again, I'm sorry and I hope you understand what I was trying to say (and vent).

[thegoshow2002]

I'll be there at Firebird Main for the races in October.
This will only be my second race, and I was a little aprehensive about wether or not to go, as I have heard that the track is lined with walls.
Oh well, i'll just have to ride a little slower and not push as hard as I would on a track that has endless runoff.
At the end of the day, it's your body and your bike.  If you dont feel comfortable about the safety of Firebird main then dont go.

[tshowrench]

Corey, and all....

Its not that the main track is that much more dangerous, it is that there is NO runoff and way to many solid things to hit! Walls dont give, they dont move, and the kill people and end careers.. Think Louden...

Steve Fugiagi broke his NECK from a mild low side crash there last year, if he was at Buttonwillow or even the East track, he woudl have slid a bit then got up and ran away, nothing ot hit means nothing to stop you causing those major injuries.

All tracks are somewhat dangerous, racing is VERY dangerous, but tracks like the main track at firebird, Sears Point, and Louden, and MANY others across the country were built for cars to race on, and are simply too dangerous to run bikes on. Its not the track, or the rider, its what happens to the rider after the crash that matters.

At tracks like BW, there is simply nothing to hit, no walls, no embankments, nothing. yes you may crash, yes you may get hurt, but there is simply nothing to HIT. that is what KILLS people... The AFM has had TWO guys killed at Sears Point this year alone, both hit walls.

I know that a lot of people have the misconception that it wont happen to them, but isnt it enough that it COULD happen to someone?? Does it REALLY take a rider getting killed before people realize that a track is too dangerous??

and to Mr Hymer,  I have been to Firebird, and Daytona (12 times) and both are very dangerous, but firebird is far more so. There just arent a lot of walls to hit at daytona. They DID have a few bales around part of the tower turn, but not any on the exit, and MANY riders were smaking the wall, Mr. Sarros in particular!! So imagine yourself going 20-30 miles an hour faster around that corner, and two thirds of the way through it, your rear end snaps sideways and ficks you off the top of the bike... Do you slide across the dirt or gravel? Do you hit an airfence? Or does your body slam into an unprotected CONCRETE WALL that breaks bones and explodes internal organs?

I for one, would much rather have CCS, an organization that I LOVE to be involved with, and throughly enjoy racing with, and really consider each race to be like a family gathering for us, to look to other more rider safe venues for its races....

Will

[duc995@aol.com]

Well stated, Will. :)

Clear Channel is the issue...I completely agree 'Roost'.  I have had (almost) nothing but good experiences with the actual individuals representing CCS at the track, but as you mentioned, their hands are tied by the parent organization.  I have even had the staff members at the track ENCOURAGE me to complain to their 'higher-ups' as they would like to see certain changes as well, but are stuck following orders!

If CCS really wanted to make a difference, they would put their full support behind reopenning Arizona Motorsports Park.  That place is the best roadrace track in the Southwest for atleast 500 miles in every direction!

[RAY_HYMER]

I am puzzled by your comments regarding Firebird.  Did you actually ride the track?   ???
There were more than a few haybales around that turn.  I got to see them first hand!!  I would guess around 30 or more.   :o
As far as Sarros hitting the wall at the exit, if you ask him, I would wager that he knew that he was hitting it, and was doing so intentionally.  I haven't seen anyone crash out against that wall, but I know a lot of racers that brush the wall intentionally to block any outside pass, and to use the whole track.  No, I cannot imagine ANYONE going 20-30 miles per hour faster around that corner.  Maybe 3-4 mph.  Everyone has their limits, including the fast guys.
You should get the opinions from the people that have raced there instead of people that don't know from experience.  I totally expect Steve Fukiage to show up for the race in October.  I don't think he would race there if he had the same opinion as you!!  
Maybe what you should do is play a video game (like Hang On) instead of race.  But then again, you would probably start complaining about the hazards to your eyes and fingers. :-/          

[RAY_HYMER]

Rob, I don't believe that you will ever see AMP open for competition anymore.  I live in Avondale, which is right next to Goodyear.  It is a BIG DEAL here in this area.  The track was opened with a permit, and that permit was revoked because of noise and it's proximity to all of the new homes being built there.  I have heard that a track was being considered around Buckeye.  I never got to race at AMP, but I did a couple of track days there.  It was fun, and the track configuration was similar to Pahrump.  Lots of runoff, and a lack of hard things to hit.  I wonder why CCS doesn't try New Mexico's tracks?  Or Fontana? Or the Big Track at Willow?
Are you going to the track day at Firebird West tomorrow?  

[MZGirl]

 I wonder why CCS doesn't try New Mexico's tracks?  Or Fontana? Or the Big Track at Willow? 

It would probably help if CCS heard directly from the racers.  This is just an unofficial message board with thousands of posts.  But sending a well-written letter directly to Kevin and maybe even CCE on ideas like racing at different tracks might help.  They don't race in the Pac/SW.  But if they get documented feedback from the racers that race here, it may impact the decision when they are planning out next season's schedule.  It might not, and things may stay the same since there's a lot of stuff we probably don't even know about that goes into choosing/scheduling tracks.  It's worth a shot though.  Especially if they hear from more than one Pac/SW racer/racer supporter.