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Where the hell was everybody yesterday? BHF

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J Farrell / Speed Tech Motorsp

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Re: Where the hell was everybody yesterday? BHF
« Reply #48 on: July 29, 2010, 02:33:53 pm »
Dan Ortega originally wrote his comment earlier on his facebook page:

Here is what I reply on his page.

Yeah there is no shortage of "those" people. I'm not sure what to make of all this low attendance this season. There are many reasons as to the low grids that we could talk about.
All in all, it just sucks!
I'm not rich or have an easy life... to be able to run all those races. I've been road racing sparingly for the past 16 seasons. I have gained sponsorship through several companies this season of which have helped me support my season. I run all those races so I can make some money back to get me to the next event.
CCS is a little slow on getting me my payment from the last several rounds. I'm wondering if they are just short handed or just low on $$.

2nd Reply:
 Another thing is when you have no hopes & dreams of making it to a factory ride because they don't exist anymore, its kind of hard to justify spending a college degree trying to get that factory ride.
When you have nothing to earn there is ...no point to work or try for it. So I believe people are just getting their kicks just riding at track days cause yes its cheaper and they can get off the street and get the thrill every once in awhile.
Bottom line is the manufactures are not going to pay contingency if the fans can't afford new bikes or accessories for their bikes anyways. Some how this economy has to turn around to where people can afford to buy bikes & accessories. We as racers are mearly rolling billboards for the manufactures. If the fans can't afford bikes & parts then we as racers are out of a job.
New riders won't come to races because there is nothing to earn from it. There is no chance of a reward for their hard work.
I can hold signs all day and advertise my products for the fans, the fans might think its all cool of what I can do on a bike but if they have desire and want but no money or job they can't purchase the products I'm advertising anyways.
So if you want to get racing and everything else in the country rolling again, its time to take a look at our failing government.
It's not just racing that I see falling apart, its also the street side of things too. I run a bike shop and I see it daily how people have want but no money.
All I know is, "THIS scatS GOTTA CHANGE, IT'S TIME WE DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!"

3rd Reply

 Race Tracks & Race Organizations need to run at a non profit for the next few years to bring the interest back into the sport again. If you keep charging more because less people are showing up your going to end up driving everyone away.
On...e of the problems I also see is that CCS pays insurance for a Racing organization without advertising for spectators so their insurance is cheaper. If they promoted or advertised the events their insurance would skyrocket which will also drive the cost up.
AMA at Road America was a joke this year too. Hardly any racers or fans.
We need to attract more fans to the races with cheaper gate fees and more exhibits to see? Fans love interacting with the racers. There needs to be more of that going on.
Once you get a fan to have a great time at a weekend of racing they will come back and bring friends with them next time. That's what we need.
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twilkinson3

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Re: Where the hell was everybody yesterday? BHF
« Reply #49 on: July 29, 2010, 02:44:10 pm »
Thing is Dave if you want to be competitive, you need a good suspension, the electronics...etc - part of the truth I guess in todays age and that adds up to quite a bit in a hurry.  Some of that adds to the frustration and definitely affects the expense factor to club racing motorcycles.  if there was more of a financial incentive to race I think we would see larger grids and some younger folks but like all the rest of cycle racing...it's not that great right now.  I was suprised to see 8 on the starting grid for Amateur LW SS at BFR with 0 expert SS racers - the arguably most affordable racing class there is.

I'm around to have fun...I like the competition aspect, but a lot of track day riders are there just to have fun and don't care about competing and seven twenty minute session for $165ish beats the hell out of 8 laps for $105 (the rough equivalent CCS track time would run around $435 for 7 events and the gate fee for 2 days).  Part of this might just be finding ways to make the entry fees lower for a true novice racer say a rookie year class in some fashion to replace a nearly or dead existing class - might make it affordable for a bit more of hte track day crowd that thinks about racing to at least try it...might get a few of them hooked even....

Anyway, my random couple thoughts
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HAWK

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Re: Where the hell was everybody yesterday? BHF
« Reply #50 on: July 29, 2010, 03:52:16 pm »
Whaty I was trying to say above is that SS has no coherant rules structure. While it should be the most affordable class LWSS is in fact the most expensive class to be competetive in at least here in the midwest. Ask Ed how much he had invested in his SS bike. He left the class in favor of Ultra Lightweight SB because there were no entries in SS. For years Ed has asked CCS to tighten the SS rules but they won't so he has built a bike to show the folly of the SS rules.

If you want to create an affordable class then pick one and establish a claiming rule. At any time a fellow competitor can "Claim" your bike for a preset price. If you know that someone can hand you say $3000 for your bike and you can't say no how much are you going to put into it. You can say no but you would lose all your points upto that point in the season. The fact is that CCS is really out of synd with the rest of the the racing world right now. Look at AMA, they have recently clamped down on allowable mods and are agressivly enforcing the rules to try and give the privateer a chance. F1, every year they add new rules to try and contain costs by limiting what the big boys with bottomless pockets can do. Your first line is VERY true but that is what is causing the problem, if a guy can't be competitive on his budget how long is he going to last. We can't control insurance or track rental but the rulebook can certainly do better at controlling the cost of the bikes.
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Paul Onley
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twilkinson3

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Re: Where the hell was everybody yesterday? BHF
« Reply #51 on: July 29, 2010, 05:48:13 pm »
That's kinda what my rambling was referring to...that and trying to find an affordable way to get more folks into racing
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Mike829

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Re: Where the hell was everybody yesterday? BHF
« Reply #52 on: July 29, 2010, 08:39:02 pm »
i wish we could have the SS classes just be bonestock motored bikes, not so much as an airfilter or TI exhaust slipon.  and no trac control or race gas.  just fairings, hand/foot controls, and suspension(internals and aftermarket shock)  I would love to run a 600, but these EX 600's making 130hp are ridiculous, last year my 750 was about as fast as purk's R6.  i love racing a 1000 this year, guys with 180hp superstock builds don't gain anything by the time they're done battling to keep the front down. 

sorry for the rant, i just wish club racing could be cheaper for most classes to be competitive and leave the $$$ in the GP classes.
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Mike #829EX
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Super Dave

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Re: Where the hell was everybody yesterday? BHF
« Reply #53 on: July 29, 2010, 08:40:33 pm »
Thing is Dave if you want to be competitive, you need a good suspension, the electronics...etc - part of the truth I guess in todays age and that adds up to quite a bit in a hurry.  Some of that adds to the frustration and definitely affects the expense factor to club racing motorcycles.  if there was more of a financial incentive to race I think we would see larger grids and some younger folks but like all the rest of cycle racing...it's not that great right now.  I was suprised to see 8 on the starting grid for Amateur LW SS at BFR with 0 expert SS racers - the arguably most affordable racing class there is.
Yes, good suspension.  But the cost of some of the exponential items only account to a BCH betterment of lap times.  Those are the exceptional cost items.  Get a bike, get THE CORRECT SPRINGS (and even some optional ones), tune the geometry and some dampening.  Throw tires at it.  This is the way to affordable racing. 

LW SS is a mess because it is such a singular class anymore because of the "weapons race" in the other lightweight classes.  It's not an attractive class so much anymore for "regular" racers. 

I'm around to have fun...I like the competition aspect, but a lot of track day riders are there just to have fun and don't care about competing and seven twenty minute session for $165ish beats the hell out of 8 laps for $105 (the rough equivalent CCS track time would run around $435 for 7 events and the gate fee for 2 days).  Part of this might just be finding ways to make the entry fees lower for a true novice racer say a rookie year class in some fashion to replace a nearly or dead existing class - might make it affordable for a bit more of hte track day crowd that thinks about racing to at least try it...might get a few of them hooked even....
I have fun racing.  The trackday thing for me isn't racing, so it isn't fun.  Two five lap races with a couple of practice sessions working with my data is more fun for me, and more valuable, than a bunch of mindless sessions.  But, I am a competitor. 
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Super Dave

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Super Dave

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Re: Where the hell was everybody yesterday? BHF
« Reply #54 on: July 29, 2010, 08:50:57 pm »
Another thing is when you have no hopes & dreams of making it to a factory ride because they don't exist anymore, its kind of hard to justify spending a college degree trying to get that factory ride.
Yeah.  Even when there were a good number of factory rides, they were about impossible to get.  For me, I always looked at building my own program.  Investment in self is always valuable, even when there isn't necessarily a monetary reward. 

So if you want to get racing and everything else in the country rolling again, its time to take a look at our failing government.
It's not just racing that I see falling apart, its also the street side of things too. I run a bike shop and I see it daily how people have want but no money.
All I know is, "THIS scatS GOTTA CHANGE, IT'S TIME WE DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!"
Hell, yeah!  It's beyond a political statement.  It's an issue of freedom. 

With more acts of force being placed on private health care, how long is it before it will be impossible for most of use to ever consider racing even as an irregular thing?  Then there is the claim of various "environmental impacts" that certainly could be linked to the stuff we do, but not to those that claim these impacts by man while utilizing various man made products to excess...  The passing of the Cap & Trade bill by the House of Representatives in June of 2009 was one of the factors that pushed me over the edge. 

Race Tracks & Race Organizations need to run at a non profit for the next few years to bring the interest back into the sport again. If you keep charging more because less people are showing up your going to end up driving everyone away.
Sure, but they are going to be impacted by the government too.  Centralized planning and zoning issues continue to come up for race tracks.  They are private entities, thus, they are a target for many groups that have anti-man attitudes.  Don't forget the "papercut companies to death" attitudes of the legal system.  This impacts tracks and organizations too.  I think the insurance for CCS at Daytona is over $42,000 for those days CCS is there.  That was a quote I heard a few years ago, so it certainly could be more now.  At what point should Kevin Elliott decide that his investment makes more money in a simple interest bearing account at 1.5% versus breaking even or loosing money?  It's a hard place to be in. 
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Super Dave

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Ducmarc

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Re: Where the hell was everybody yesterday? BHF
« Reply #55 on: July 29, 2010, 11:10:17 pm »
i suppose there's a point where the wife tells you that we can't spend your unemployment check on tires to go racing. i think the economy is still emploading atleast in FLA 1000 laid off at NASA monday and wed winn dixie decides to close a bunch of stores    how do you justify spending any money even if you have some . everyone in business is trying to survive  how can you sponser someone especally in a race with no spectators. it used to be you stretched out you visa on tires and hotels then paid it off. now if you can pay it off they freeze your credit.  i was at the mega bike store they got brand new 08 600's they can't give them away. no credit .  even the crook donald trump was on tv complaining he has projects in the works but can't get backing   the whole thing stinks  so by the time i can afford to race again we will need F50   maybe CCS and WERA need to enter talks      or maybe the clintons can sponser us they got plenty    i'm going to bed 
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mwsportsimaging

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Re: Where the hell was everybody yesterday? BHF
« Reply #56 on: July 30, 2010, 12:47:09 am »
Is it possible we just have too damn many classes?
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mdr14

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Re: Where the hell was everybody yesterday? BHF
« Reply #57 on: July 30, 2010, 01:46:09 am »
So, How much is insurance at BHF for a CCS Weekend? How much more would the insurance premium be to promote to attract spectators?
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Matt Drucker
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Woofentino Pugrossi

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Re: Where the hell was everybody yesterday? BHF
« Reply #58 on: July 30, 2010, 04:34:06 am »
One thing I do hear that keeps spectators from coming out is the $25 gate fee on saturday. Some people just want to come out sat and not sunday also. Really wish BHF would go back to teh single day charge like they did back in 2000ish. But of course a few people staying overnight sat and staying sunday without paying for sunday ruined that.
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Rob
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Super Dave

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Re: Where the hell was everybody yesterday? BHF
« Reply #59 on: July 30, 2010, 05:47:11 am »
So, How much is insurance at BHF for a CCS Weekend? How much more would the insurance premium be to promote to attract spectators?
I'm not exactly sure on the cost.  CCS is buying in bulk as it is. 

I think the real question is this:  CCE did spend money on FUSA promotions.  How many people came to that?  Not many, really.  You've got to have personalities and teams to attract people.  You can see a GSXR with a bunch of decals almost anywhere.  Without team identities, attractive personalities, and a fun program, you're not gonna get much.  Sunday is long.  Compare that to a two and a half hour evening pro/am flat track program, a football game, or some other events. 

Unless you know people, club racing is hard to watch.  What do you think, Matt?
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Super Dave