Where the hell was everybody yesterday? BHF

[agron4]

Taking photos, we have pretty accurate numbers. So...

Trackdays.  All riders including CR
NESBA @ Road America June 1-2 = 132 riders
Blackhawk Farms Trackday May 19th = 172 riders
Blackhawk Farms Trackday July 21st = 127

CCS + Learning Curves Weekends
Blackhawk Farms CCS May 23rd = 146 (not including team challenge)
Road America CCS/ASRA July 4th = 187 (not including team challenge)
Blackhawk Farms CCS July 25th = 88

So where's the best place to start to get more people interested in racing?

[RMGSXR124]

I started working on the old SV. Planning on a return to the track!

[HAWK]

I can't speak for the other classes but in lightweight I think the interest is pretty good. The grids the last couple years have been growing and the riders are sticking around. As has been mentioned, I think the biggest issue is money. I'm not suggesting that CCS is too expensive just that right now there are an awful lot of people hurting just trying to survive and there is not much left for play. Look around, racing isn't the only business hurting right now. I widh I could have been out last weekend but I can only afford so much and next month is more important with the auction. If I hit the lottery big I promise I'll help with the attendance problem.

[R1Racer99]

I've spent all my racing money buying engines and trying to get the bike to run this year so I've barely been out there, but even if I had the money, CCS is starting to seem like too much of a financial burden compared to CRA. The race fees are almost double which is hard to justify when I'm not making contingency anymore. I'm looking at just doing trackdays for a while and see if grid sizes come back and make racing worth it again. I don't want to spend a grand to ride around by myself or with a couple other guys who run the same pace. I love racing but I would rather ride all day and know that I'm not killing myself financially.

[ChitownNexus]

Is running a race weekend so much more money than a trackday?  Both have insurance, same number of corner workers, track staff, etc. 

As an outsider looking in I do think the fees are pretty steep (I am a new track day rider). 

Race school is $200 which is $50 more than a track day at Blackhawk and you only run 3 times. I know it is a school, but I'm just referencing the actual track time.  CCS should work with track day organizations to somehow license people through track days.  The flags can't be any different at a race than a track day.  I honestly believe if I could pay $25 extra one track day and get a license for CCS I would race a few weekends. I am sure others would do so as well.

I looked at the race fees and those seem relatively steep too.  Seems like the cost has gone up, but the return has gone down.

I think I saw on WSMC they run a Novice Race Group.  Something where new riders have to run that class 3 times before entering other actually Novice classes.  Interesting concept to draw new riders in more slowly.

Anyway those are just my random thought from a guy who has lurked on this forum for years.  I rode back in 94-2001 before track days were big and even entered a SV 2 times in CCS just to get track time :)


Now if someone wants to trade me my 3007 GSXR600 for an SV I will race asap! :)

[backMARKr]

I agree with track days being a player in low grids. Our local club here in St. Louis (MCRA) does a good job of generating racers though. We host our own series at our track days- The  MCRA Challenge series. The Sportsman's Race seems to continually generate new CCS riders, and in the past few years, we have seen the local road racer base grow nicely. The Challenge series grids have always been good, and with the addition of a $$$ paying purse sponsor this season- it has been even better.

I guess what I am saying is track days CAN generate new racers, but the organization hosting the TD needs to have a racing focus to it, otherwise folks just show up for the TD, ride then go home. Our club tries to encourage people to grid up...from the website, to the admin, to the CR's. Anywho, it's working for us.  Would be nice to see some other organizations do the same.

Chris....gotta disagree with you on this. I will agree that MCRA has a decent turnout for the trackdays, but last couple years its been pretty clear that the majority of people that show for the trackday are pulling stumps at the end of the day on Saturday and not sticking around and racing Sunday. Not saying the effort or focus is not being made by MCRA, just that the return doesn't  appear to be there. Just my two cents.

I also have to agree with Paul that trackdays and race days are definitely apples and oranges. Went to the STT day at Putnam Saturday and while I was happy to get some seat time, I was underwhelmed with some of the "administrative" aspects of the day.

[JBraun]

MRA has a stock class called "superstreet" that has brought in lots of new riders. Sort of a run-whatcha-brung deal. Minimal bike prep.

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

Is running a race weekend so much more money than a trackday?  Both have insurance, same number of corner workers, track staff, etc. 

Races have more cornerworkers than TD's (at BHF). TD's at BHF usually only staff 1 person per corner manned (T1, T3, T3a, T4, Main gate, T7) and I think one ambulance. Races usually have 2 workers (3 in the hot corners. T1, T3, T3a, Main gate, T7. If we have enough that show) and 3 ambulances.

Pretty sure race insurance is alot more than TD insurance since TD's are not supposed to be a competative event.

Seen pics of Chicago over the weekend and I was surprised anyone from 'Lake' Chicago made it. Only reason I'm not racing now is $$$. Honestly entry fees for CCS are a complete bargain compared to SCCA's. Was at SCCA june sprints talking with a racer there and his race was $450 and it wasnt even a top level class. Was talking with DanO at BHF and hell I didnt realise tire's got that damn expensive. 10 yrs ago it was $220/set, now he said some now are over $500 (w/tax).

[Super Dave]

Is running a race weekend so much more money than a trackday?  Both have insurance, same number of corner workers, track staff, etc.

What Woof said...

And the insurance for competition is more expensive than it is for a "lapping" or "learning" day at the track, not to mention the premium date of a weekend. 

Some insurance providers look at trackdays as a learning opportunity and can cover the cost of a crash with your street bike. 

It is the difference between throwing bullets and shooting them. 

[Super Dave]

How to get more individuals involved? 

I think it is complex, but there might be some issues that can be looked at.

I've advocated for a three tier system for some time.  I'm sure someone can pull up the thread here.  Plenty of riders that don't want to race as experts as they just race for the enjoyment.  There are new racers that are intimidated by ten year amateurs.  And the expert/pro field doesn't have much to shoot for.

Next, the cost of motorcycles has really continued to rise while, I feel, that reliability has gone down.  600's have gone from being below $7k in the 1990's, I'm generalizing, to reaching out to $10k.  Tires, depending upon what you're running, in that period have really stayed close to $300 to $380 a set.  Entry fees, which have gone up as a result of insurance and the need to rent race tracks on the ever more covetted weekend, have remained pretty stable for about ten years.  Travel costs for gas have swung around over the years, but are currently sitting about double what I paid per gallon back in the early 90's.  Not terrible, other than having gas well below $1 in 2001 and then over $4 in 2008. 

Ti valve replacement as regular maintanance?  $1200?  How many R6's of this 2006 and up generation have had cranks go bad?  I've heard of too many, not that everyone will experience it, thankfully. 

The thing that I have noticed since around the turn of the millenium has been the lack of younger riders getting into road racing.  Back when we raced on stone tires, although others raced on wood tires, it was common to have a bunch of twenty year old guys racing.  Someone that was actually 40 years old was uncommon often.  Somewhere, the young guy population started to get overpowered by the older demographic.  With that, I'll generalize again, the extraordinary will to RACE at twenty-two and you're learning how not crash while going fast compared trying to learn how to go fast at thirty-something and up while not getting outside your comfort zone or upsetting anyone.

Over the weekend a few of us talked about the small turn out at Blackhawk.  I brought up the new AMA thing.  As it is, there is a more attainable set of rules that has certainly changed the way one as an expert considering AMA competition.  If you've got $5k to blow on an important race weekend, would you do that at Blackhawk racing for a pittance of contingency or would you go to the big show?  For some of us, it would be a no brainer to do the big show.  Or even just save up money to go to a track that you and your friends think is "more cool".

Blackhawk Farms Raceway, like it or not, is a neat little track.  Jeremy McWilliams liked it, and he called it a "park track" as it was like some tracks he'd been to that were in a park.  It's a family friendly place, and, hey, Anna Maria's rocks.  It's been on CCS's schedule regularly and multiple times for a long time, and it was formerly on WERA's schedule for years too.  But, the terrible part, it has lacked any kind of media coverage.  There were local guys that would make a killing in Suzuki contingency years ago at Blackhawk, but no one would write about it.  Blame WERA and CCS for that.  You can only toot your horn so much.  Then there were the local Milwaukee guys that would to to Grattan and clean house.  They got written about!  People knew about Grattan and people knew about the guys that went fast there.  Those guys quit their jobs so they could work on their bikes and work out while the guys that did well at Blackhawk continued working so they could continue their racing program. 

When CCE bought CCS and FUSA, everyone was hoping that everything would change on this side of the promotions issue.  A few things happened, but it was still constrained that the individuals that volunteered to do the write ups eventually quit.  Getting results in a timely fashion was an issue.  (No Blackhawk results on the CCS page right now, as a matter of fact.)  And CCE put constraints upon it also. 

Discuss.

[Super Dave]

How to get more individuals involved?

I'll quote myself...

Some are missing the obvious issue too.

Getting more individuals involved is an awful business question.  It is also the most expensive one. 

When I expanded my schools to my independent program in 1999, I wanted to work with existing road racers.  Why?  It is the most important issue:  How do you keep the racers you have involved?  I struggled personally for years.  After being very obstinate and throwing a lot of time and money at things, I learned a few things or two that I could use to help other riders shortcut some issues.  Most leave after two or three years because of finances (look now as new riders think they need to have $800-$2500 cartridges for their forks in addition to their bike and tire expenses) or frustration. 

[HAWK]

Dave, you've been at this much longer than I have so you have numbers to throw out there and they seem pretty good. I don't think that CCS fees are out of line, I do think CCS could learn something from WERA in terms of the SS classes. With a more black and white set of rules SS could become an affordable class for some of the guys on small budgets so they could be on a playing field that is at least reasonable.

Twenty-somethings... in todays economy just how much disposable income do these guys have?

2-3 year burnout... stricter rules that would keep costs reasonable would make the racing more about the rider than the budget. This is being done at the highest levels of motorsports the world over, just not at the club level. Granted enforcement would be an issue but if club racing is to survive then someone is going to have to get creative.

Cost containment is the answer, with as many classes as CCS has right now certainly several of them could be made more restrictive in terms of allowed modifications. Maaybe even look at claiming as an option.