NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races

Started by G 97, July 16, 2007, 04:17:27 PM

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rogers1323

My only problems with NESBA are matters of my personal opinion. 

First, I personally think they oversell the track for the disparity in speed that they have and the passing rules that are in place. 

Second, I personally think they get dates leading up to race weekends because they know it will boost their attendance from *some* of the racers that are racing that weekend. (I'm only talking about the ones who are only riding because it is the day before a race weekend, but will choose to ride with a trackday org in that situation)

With that in mind, I can not fault NESBA for either practice, because both items increase their revenue. (and don't seem to be hurting their membership or event attendance)  So for the business, it seems like good choices.

It does bother me that they claim not to grab dates before race weekends on purpose.  I guess I should try to find out when CCS and Nesba confirmed their dates at Road America this year since the July CCS date was new.  If it is making you more money, admit to it.  The claim that it is coincidence is what bothers me.

It also bothers me that NESBA spends so much time talking about how they don't oversell their groups, when the track seemed so crowded every time I rode with them.  And I am comparing them to at least one other organization on the same track, so it is apples to apples.

The biggest issue, and reason that I finally spoke up on the subject, is because of the attitude that I see from people involved with NESBA.  While it also seems that some of their members are pretty protective of the organization (and pretty vocal about it), the more noticeable people are CR's and directors and whatever other titles they have.  In the instance of this post, Garth came on here bringing up old arguments just to try to kick sand in people's faces.  Some people speak up in return, as would be expected, and Garth changes to *condescending, I'm better than you, I'm not lowering myself to your level, Garth* at which point he makes the issue about everyone else rather than himself.  This seems to be pretty stereotypically passive-aggressive behavior, and it's not the first time that I've noticed it. 

Garth, if you're going to try to drag people into an argument then have the argument.  Don't act like you're above it as soon as other people express their perspectives and opinions.  The other option, of course, is to keep your mouth shut at the beginning so that no one gets riled up in the first place.

P.S. - I'll be attempting to get my hands on the annual report Jeff, b/c now I'm curious exactly where all that money goes.  If some of us have to eat our words, I'll be the first to come on here and do so.

JBraun

ASRA/CCS MW #29
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Dr675

Here we go again.  Garth was only noting that the trackday riders/CR/Racers that utilize NESBA to improve their riding did well at Road America.  I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.  Then, the NESBA haters come out of the woodwork and start slamming.

I for one know that G97 works his A$$ off for the sport, be it NESBA, racing, or what ever. I give him props, whatever he got as a result of his efforts, he earned.  Any slamming of that is just sour grapes and petty jealousy.

Dr749
"...you gotta kick at the darkness til it bleeds daylight"- BNL

Burt Munro

I can't believe you guys are missing the entire reason for Garth to post these results. :ahhh:

Can't you see that it simply was his hidden agenda to pat himself on the back for his 4th in Ex GTO, 7th in Ex Unl GP and 7th in Superstock? :kicknuts:

Nice try Garth, but at least one person saw your true motivation! :jerkoff:

:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
Founding member of the 10,000+ smite club.  Ask me how you can join!

tstruyk

QuoteHere we go again.  Garth was only noting that the trackday riders/CR/Racers that utilize NESBA to improve their riding did well at Road America.

And I merely mentioned that the results arent that suprising for kids that have spent as many laps on a race track as these guys (and girl) have.

I'd be more impressed with someone that had done 3-4 track days (including learning curves) coming out and cracking the top 10 in those large fields having never been to the track.

Garth was stroking his (nesbas) ego, I wasnt, hence the discussion.

rogers, check your pm  :cheers:
CCS GP/ASRA  #85
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roadracer319

I can't beleive I just read all of that.....  I'll never get that time back, it's gone :wah:

G 97

Quote from: rogers1323 on July 17, 2007, 02:22:04 PM
My only problems with NESBA are matters of my personal opinion. 

First, I personally think they oversell the track for the disparity in speed that they have and the passing rules that are in place. 

Second, I personally think they get dates leading up to race weekends because they know it will boost their attendance from *some* of the racers that are racing that weekend. (I'm only talking about the ones who are only riding because it is the day before a race weekend, but will choose to ride with a trackday org in that situation)

With that in mind, I can not fault NESBA for either practice, because both items increase their revenue. (and don't seem to be hurting their membership or event attendance)  So for the business, it seems like good choices.

It does bother me that they claim not to grab dates before race weekends on purpose.  I guess I should try to find out when CCS and Nesba confirmed their dates at Road America this year since the July CCS date was new.  If it is making you more money, admit to it.  The claim that it is coincidence is what bothers me.

It also bothers me that NESBA spends so much time talking about how they don't oversell their groups, when the track seemed so crowded every time I rode with them.  And I am comparing them to at least one other organization on the same track, so it is apples to apples.

The biggest issue, and reason that I finally spoke up on the subject, is because of the attitude that I see from people involved with NESBA.  While it also seems that some of their members are pretty protective of the organization (and pretty vocal about it), the more noticeable people are CR's and directors and whatever other titles they have.  In the instance of this post, Garth came on here bringing up old arguments just to try to kick sand in people's faces.  Some people speak up in return, as would be expected, and Garth changes to *condescending, I'm better than you, I'm not lowering myself to your level, Garth* at which point he makes the issue about everyone else rather than himself.  This seems to be pretty stereotypically passive-aggressive behavior, and it's not the first time that I've noticed it. 

Garth, if you're going to try to drag people into an argument then have the argument.  Don't act like you're above it as soon as other people express their perspectives and opinions.  The other option, of course, is to keep your mouth shut at the beginning so that no one gets riled up in the first place.

P.S. - I'll be attempting to get my hands on the annual report Jeff, b/c now I'm curious exactly where all that money goes.  If some of us have to eat our words, I'll be the first to come on here and do so.

Dude, you post under a hidden name.  Talk alot of crap and do not offer any specifics or details to back them up.  Go ahead and slam me and NESBA all you want.  Anyone with any amount of objectivity can see your post for what it is and it is nothing constructive or of value.   

If you truly have any specific concerns or issue I am more than willing to address them and correct them to the best of my abilities.  Your post accomplishes nothing towards resolution and tells me that you have no idea who I am, how I manage things and more important how I run an event.   Good day.
G

weggieman

I know some of those names from the track before NESBA existed so I don't think those "Nesbians" honed their skills only at track days.

rogers1323

Quote from: G 97 on July 17, 2007, 04:40:54 PM
Dude, you post under a hidden name.  Talk alot of crap and do not offer any specifics or details to back them up.  Go ahead and slam me and NESBA all you want.  Anyone with any amount of objectivity can see your post for what it is and it is nothing constructive or of value.  

If you truly have any specific concerns or issue I am more than willing to address them and correct them to the best of my abilities.  Your post accomplishes nothing towards resolution and tells me that you have no idea who I am, how I manage things and more important how I run an event.   Good day.

And here you are being condescending and passive-aggressive again.

So you tried to find out who I am?  Were you going to post my personal information on the BBS like I've seen you do before?  I refer back to my previous statement about NESBA having some sort of privacy policy.

Details?  How many people does NESBA put on the track?  I believe that it used to be 20 people per mile or 45 people per 2 miles.  I'm not positive of what that number is.  At VIR North, I think that is too crowded (with the passing rules and big disparities in speed that I previously mentioned).

I addressed two specific concerns or issues.  I then promptly stated that if "you" (nesba) are comfortable with those situations the way they are then there is nothing to address.  I would just like to see the group own up to the situation as it is rather than avoid it as you seem to be doing.  For example, "Yes, we choose dates before race weekends on purpose.  We do so because......."

I do not know you, have never met you, nor have I ever attended an event that you ran.  I didn't claim any of those things either.  The only dealings that I've ever had with you were hearing the things you say and way you act here on the board.  Based on that, I will choose not to do an event with you if I am ever in the position to do so.  Because of your position you are a representative of your group, and I personally think that your attitude is hurting the group rather than helping it.

Firecat

Quote from: rogers1323 on July 17, 2007, 06:02:33 PMDetails?  How many people does NESBA put on the track?  I believe that it used to be 20 people per mile or 45 people per 2 miles.  I'm not positive of what that number is.  At VIR North, I think that is too crowded (with the passing rules and big disparities in speed that I previously mentioned).

I can't speak to VIR North....but I just recently did a trackday with NESBA at Blackhawk farms which is 1.95 miles and not very wide and there were 25 people per session so that would equate to about 13 riders every mile.

I think someone also mentioned in this thread how the prices of NESBA have gone up steadily in the past few years....I'm not an expert on this, and not affialiated with NESBA other than riding with them occassionally, but from what I have heard and seen throughout the last two years the price has gone up as they have lowered the max number allowed in each session. I'm not a finance major, but if they lower revenue by lowering the amount of people that they will take per day it would make sense that the cost per rider would go up. Truth be told....I'm fine with having less track density and paying a tad more for it.
Brian Blume
Hix Racing #803

zeroice

Krishna A. Pribadi
CCS #707

G 97

Quote from: rogers1323 on July 17, 2007, 06:02:33 PM

Based on that, I will choose not to do an event with you if I am ever in the position to do so. 

Thank you
G