Amateur Middleweight Superbike
3 JOSEPH DENOWH
4 MELISSIA APPEL
Amateur Unlimited Superbike
1 DUSTIN BOYD
2 RON HIX
Expert Unlimited Superbike
1 BRIAN BOYD
5 BRETT BOYD
Amateur Unlimited GP
1 RON HIX
11 DUSTIN BOYD
Amateur GTU
6 DUSTIN BOYD
17 DAN GIZYNSKI
Amateur GTO
1 DUSTIN BOYD
2 RON HIX
Amateur Middleweight SuperSport
7 DUSTIN BOYD
9 MELISSIA APPEL
11 JOSEPH DENOWH
19 TODD MURRAY
Expert GTO
3 BRIAN BOYD
4 GARTH CLOYD
8 BRETT BOYD
Expert Formula 40
7 PAUL VONDRAK
Expert Middleweight SuperSport
18 CHRISTOPHER FRYE
Amateur Unlimited SuperSport
1 DUSTIN BOYD
2 RON HIX
Expert Unlimited SuperSport
3 BRIAN BOYD
Amateur Lightweight Grand Prix
4 JOEL SPALDING
Amateur GT Lights
1 JOEL SPALDING
Amateur ThunderBike
3 JOEL SPALDING
Amateur SuperTwins
8 JOEL SPALDING
Amateur Middleweight Superbike
4 JOSEPH DENOWH
7 MELISSIA APPEL
16 TODD MURRAY
Amateur Unlimited Superbike
1 RON HIX
10 DUSTIN BOYD
Expert Unlimited Superbike
1 BRIAN BOYD
Amateur Middleweight Grand Prix
3 MELISSIA APPEL
6 DUSTIN BOYD
13 TODD MURRAY
Expert Unlimited GP
6 BRIAN BOYD
7 GARTH CLOYD
Amateur Middleweight SuperSport
5 JOSEPH DENOWH
6 DUSTIN BOYD
Expert Formula 40
9 PAUL VONDRAK
Amateur Unlimited SuperSport
1 RON HIX
2 DUSTIN BOYD
Expert Unlimited SuperSport
6 BRIAN BOYD
GTU
3 TEAM APPEL Melissa Appel,Alan Federsen
OVERALL
8 TEAM APPEL Melissa Appel,Alan Federsen
Superstock
7 GARTH CLOYD
Not bad for track day riders. :thumb:
you guys only did so good because you screwed everyone else out of a perfectly fine track date...
:biggrin: ::)
To be correct it is because we can make more money based on the fact that we can secure the track at a much lower rental fee resulting in us driving up the prices for all racers while taking away all race event dates from said race orgs. :biggrin:
:lmao:
You just like to try to pick fights don't you?
And does NESBA have any kind of privacy policy? Because you definitely like to throw out names of members of your group for your own benefit.
And finally, are you just pulling names that are NESBA members out of the race results, or are you specifically looking through the results and pulling out those people who *almost* exclusively ride with NESBA and just choose to race now and then? Because if someone posts good race results and also happens to have a NESBA membership it proves nothing. Correlation does not prove causation.
::) where's the tar and feather button... :biggrin: :lmao:
I think he was just mostly picking out their CR's.
Is it suprising that CR's or even trackday riders that are active enough their names are recognizable by a (non) employee of NESBA do well when they go racing? ESPECIALLY in the AM ranks??
Quote from: tstruyk on July 16, 2007, 05:20:56 PM
Is it suprising that CR's or even trackday riders that are active enough their names are recognizable by a (non) employee of NESBA do well when they go racing? ESPECIALLY in the AM ranks??
This leads me to believe that you were not in attendance for this round or that you did not pay attention to the order of place finishes. Since most of the races were combined expert / amature races most of the places listed were well up into the expert ranks – in several cases finishing third to fourth to fifth over all which of course would make them in essence 3rd,4th,5th place expert finishes.
In any event, post what you want to post, believe what you want to believe. In the end you can not take away the fact that these track day riders did very well in gridding up and racing - which is more than can be said about you. LOL
Quote from: G 97 on July 16, 2007, 10:51:18 PM
This leads me to believe that you were not in attendance for this round or that you did not pay attention to the order of place finishes. Since most of the races were combined expert / amature races most of the places listed were well up into the expert ranks – in several cases finishing third to fourth to fifth over all which of course would make them in essence 3rd,4th,5th place expert finishes.
Timmay may not have been in attendance, but I was. And I can tell you that of my various finishes between 8th-15th, I never had one AM pass me, so you are dreaming if you are thinking any AM in the MW classes was in the top 15 overall...
Other than proving you are a tool by starting this thread, I fail to understand the point of this thread. You simply re-enforce the fact, that for every one vocal person aganist NESBA there are countless other silent people (like myself until now) who will never tell another Racer or Track Day person to attend a NESBA event. This may not hurt you personally, but in a region such as the Great Plains where NESBA has to give away track days to the local peeps to get attendance, you should chose your words better, if not for your own personal ego, but perhaps it may make other NESBA's director's jobs a little easier...
You all, afterall working (or volunteering) for the same Non-For Profit right? ::)
Quote from: extrakt0r on July 16, 2007, 11:58:19 PM
Timmay may not have been in attendance, but I was. And I can tell you that of my various finishes between 8th-15th, I never had one AM pass me, so you are dreaming if you are thinking any AM in the MW classes was in the top 15 overall...
I passed you in the carousel like you were standing still!
Well, actually you WERE standing still.....
hehehe.....
B. Kaszer
to finish first you must first finish.....
Quote from: extrakt0r on July 16, 2007, 11:58:19 PM
Timmay may not have been in attendance, but I was. And I can tell you that of my various finishes between 8th-15th, I never had one AM pass me, so you are dreaming if you are thinking any AM in the MW classes was in the top 15 overall...
Other than proving you are a tool by starting this thread, I fail to understand the point of this thread. You simply re-enforce the fact, that for every one vocal person aganist NESBA there are countless other silent people (like myself until now) who will never tell another Racer or Track Day person to attend a NESBA event. This may not hurt you personally, but in a region such as the Great Plains where NESBA has to give away track days to the local peeps to get attendance, you should chose your words better, if not for your own personal ego, but perhaps it may make other NESBA's director's jobs a little easier...
You all, afterall working (or volunteering) for the same Non-For Profit right? ::)
:rollseyes:
Quote from: Willyz on July 17, 2007, 12:52:44 AM
I passed you in the carousel like you were standing still!
Well, actually you WERE standing still.....
hehehe.....
B. Kaszer
to finish first you must first finish.....
Even then I was still moving fast....Trying to get all my parts out of the gravel trap! LOL
Quote from: G 97 on July 16, 2007, 10:51:18 PM
In any event, post what you want to post, believe what you want to believe. In the end you can not take away the fact that these track day riders did very well in gridding up and racing -
since they gridded up and were "racing" - shouldn't they loose the "track day rider" and they should now be known as racers?
Someday I hope I can be way cool and make my own website and refer to myself in the third person.
Quote from: G 97 on July 17, 2007, 09:19:44 AM
Someday I hope I can be way cool and make my own website and refer to myself in the third person.
You would be better off working on your attitude before working on a website...
Does anyone want me to forward my results...?? :jerkoff:
I had a NESBA membership back in the day!! You know, when trackdays were $125-135 and a membership fee was not required. BTW... What is the standard rate of inflation annually..??
I like the "Non-profit"..!! Are those aluminum "Feather Lite" trailers you guys fill the paddock with..?? :boink:
Quote from: extrakt0r on July 17, 2007, 09:29:50 AM
You would be better off working on your attitude before working on a website...
We think that we have a very good attitude. LOL
I love the Yamaha sponsorship and EZ-UP's with all the Suzuki's race bikes under them! :kicknuts:
Quote from: Headdog122 on July 17, 2007, 09:32:28 AM
Does anyone want me to forward my results...?? :jerkoff:
I had a NESBA membership back in the day!! You know, when trackdays were $125-135 and a membership fee was not required. BTW... What is the standard rate of inflation annually..??
I like the "Non-profit"..!! Are those aluminum "Feather Lite" trailers you guys fill the paddock with..?? :boink:
Life is tough isn't it. :biggrin:
Quote from: r1owner on July 17, 2007, 09:40:37 AM
I love the Yamaha sponsorship and EZ-UP's with all the Suzuki's race bikes under them! :kicknuts:
I agree I love it too. :cheers:
As well as the decals and the EZ-ups there were also a 2007 R6 and a 2007 R1 plus a 2006 R6.
There was also a C3 scooter and a 3000 inverter generater. :thumb:
Quote from: G 97 on July 17, 2007, 09:44:16 AM
I agree I love it too. :cheers:
As well as the decals and the EZ-ups there were also a 2007 R6 and a 2007 R1 plus a 2006 R6.
There was also a C3 scooter and a 3000 inverter generater. :thumb:
Yeah, you guys think you're all that, but until I see umbrella girls feeding you grapes, you still suck. :lmao:
Quote from: G 97 on July 16, 2007, 10:51:18 PM
This leads me to believe that you were not in attendance for this round or that you did not pay attention to the order of place finishes. Since most of the races were combined expert / amature races most of the places listed were well up into the expert ranks – in several cases finishing third to fourth to fifth over all which of course would make them in essence 3rd,4th,5th place expert finishes.
In any event, post what you want to post, believe what you want to believe. In the end you can not take away the fact that these track day riders did very well in gridding up and racing - which is more than can be said about you. LOL
Several classes huh... show me one rider that cracked the top 5 in the the overall finishes in ANY MW/HW/UNL class. Ya know, since I wasnt there to witness the wonder of the nesba dominance... :jerkoff:
For the record Garth, my impliction wasnt that their finishes where undeserved, it was simply that when you turn over a 1,000 laps a year on a race track as a control rider or track day junkie... its not suprising to do well when you finally sack up and race.... I filed your post in the "no-shit" category.
Kudos to those that are racing and doing well, I didnt mean to take anything away from your results. Just saying its not all that astonishing.
As for me not gridding up and racing, well I fund my own expenses. Noone bought my trailer for me, noone buys my tires, I pay for my own track time, and quite frankly, when my bottom end took a shit at GIR, the rebuild of my motor cost me my season. I decided not to commit financial suicide as one of your cohorts did. Instead I chose to recover financially to come back and do this all over again next year. Instead of being condemed to the sidelines next year, I'll take a half year off to insure I can make the grids in the future. We all have our motivation. I'd like to have some longevity in this game.
someone said the 'N' word
Nesbians!
Quote from: tstruyk on July 17, 2007, 10:59:02 AM
Several classes huh... show me one rider that cracked the top 5 in the the overall finishes in ANY MW/HW/UNL class. Ya know, since I wasnt there to witness the wonder of the nesba dominance... :jerkoff:
I know of two riders who did this.
"NESBA dominance" - I like that. :cheers:
Quote from: tstruyk on July 17, 2007, 10:59:02 AMFor the record Garth, my impliction wasnt that their finishes where undeserved, it was simply that when you turn over a 1,000 laps a year on a race track as a control rider or track day junkie... its not suprising to do well when you finally sack up and race.... I filed your post in the "no-shit" category.
Your original comments seemed condensending to me, and here as well, as whitnessed by using the term "sack up"
Quote from: tstruyk on July 17, 2007, 10:59:02 AMKudos to those that are racing and doing well, I didnt mean to take anything away from your results. Just saying its not all that astonishing.
They are not my results. And from prior post from some "racers" that trackday riders don't have it in them, blah, blah, blah. Don't have the skills of racers...blah blah blah and can't handle the close passing in racing blah blah blah - I find THIS astonishing.
Quote from: tstruyk on July 17, 2007, 10:59:02 AM
As for me not gridding up and racing, well I fund my own expenses. Noone bought my trailer for me, noone buys my tires, I pay for my own track time, and quite frankly, when my bottom end took a shit at GIR, the rebuild of my motor cost me my season. I decided not to commit financial suicide as one of your cohorts did. Instead I chose to recover financially to come back and do this all over again next year. Instead of being condemed to the sidelines next year, I'll take a half year off to insure I can make the grids in the future. We all have our motivation. I'd like to have some longevity in this game.
Oh please, Cry me a river dude. No one has given me anything . You act as though I woke up one day and "ping" I got everything handed to me. I am no different than anyone else. Make yourself valuable to society and the rewards will come. For you to say that everything is free for me and that I don't fund my own expenses is pure BS. I work for everything I get.
seems to me NESBA should be concerned that their track day riders have gone over to the dark side and have become racers...cuz that's what they are once they have that license in hand....racers that do track days. Before you know it...they'll do less track days and more races :ahhh: THE HORROR OF IT ALL!!!! :err:
NESBA is "Not for Profit" right..??
I am not trying to kick any crap here, but I am curious how much of my $185-195 per trackday is donated to RW Action Fund or Red Flag Fund.
I can honestly say, if $25-$45 or more is donated from the aforementioned "Not for Profit" organization, I'll see you at your next event. And I could convince some of my buddies to go, otherwise show me where the $$ goes. I don't want to hear about track rental fees, insurance, yada, yada... I'm talking a predetermined "Profit Margin" that must be put back into the organization.
Sorry... My curiousity is arroused..!! :rollseyes:
The prices just seem to keep going up...
QuoteI know of two riders who did this.
which 2? what races? I'd really like to congratulate them. Thats impressive to say the least. Are they planning on moving up to expert this year? Or chasing AM championships?
QuoteYour original comments seemed condensending to me, and here as well, as whitnessed by using the term "sack up"
it doesnt take a lil sack to race??? I was under the impression that a contingent of track day riders hesitate to race for one of 2 reasons.
1. funds
2. they consider themselves "not ready"
I could be wrong, just going by converstions I've heard/read.
My original comments where only interpreted that way because I ignored your chest thumping. Yes its cool so many riders in your organization are doing well. good for them. but not unheard of.
QuoteThey are not my results. And from prior post from some "racers" that trackday riders don't have it them, blah, blah, blah. Don't have the skill of racers...blah blah blah and can't handle the close passing in racing blah blah blah - I find THIS astonishing.
I dont think people take issue with the dozen racers or CR's or whatever you choose to call them today that CAN negotiate a track in a reasonable manner, safely... its the ones that cant that concerns them. Its dizzying logic I know.
QuoteOh please, Cry me a river dude. No one has given me anything . Please let me know what I have gotten for free. You are preaching to the choir
I never said you recieved anything for free... I simply said I fund my own racing. You tried to make it personal. I responed with a personal reason for me not being there to race. As for results, well it would have been nice to find out, but I didnt have the opportunity.
But since you so adamently deny recieving anything, are you saying that nesba doesnt purchase items for its directors? trailers? tires? parts? vehicles? Nothing????
Quote from: tstruyk on July 17, 2007, 12:35:51 PM
which 2? what races? I'd really like to congratulate them. Thats impressive to say the least. Are they planning on moving up to expert this year? Or chasing AM championships?
it doesnt take a lil sack to race??? I was under the impression that a contingent of track day riders hesitate to race for one of 2 reasons.
1. funds
2. they consider themselves "not ready"
I could be wrong, just going by converstions I've heard/read.
My original comments where only interpreted that way because I ignored your chest thumping. Yes its cool so many riders in your organization are doing well. good for them. but not unheard of.
I dont think people take issue with the dozen racers or CR's or whatever you choose to call them today that CAN negotiate a track in a reasonable manner, safely... its the ones that cant that concerns them. Its dizzying logic I know.
I never said you recieved anything for free... I simply said I fund my own racing. You tried to make it personal. I responed with a personal reason for me not being there to race. As for results, well it would have been nice to find out, but I didnt have the opportunity.
But since you so adamently deny recieving anything, are you saying that nesba doesnt purchase items for its directors? trailers? tires? parts? vehicles? Nothing????
You are the expert.
Dude, it's clear to me that you have prior issues with myself and or NESBA. I have no idea who you are and I have no recollection of ever meeting you. If there is some perceived injustice that you now find it necessary to repeatedly pile on with subjects pertaining with NESBA please let me know so I can at least try and make an attempt to resolve it. Otherwise you are simply wasting my time. Please don't give me that crap about making it personal. You crossed that line along time ago.
Once again, I have never had anything just given to me. I FUND MY OWN RACING. I also race. :thumb:
I will give you that Dustin and Ron ran some great races. It was even great to be able to talk with them and not have to worry about them being big headed. I hope Ron keeps coming and makes Dustin work alittle for the wins. Ron's write up was great too no ego trip just an awesome write up.
It was also nice of Melisa (sorry for the spelling)to setup and help out Trackday Mag with their rider problem.
Quote from: Headdog122 on July 17, 2007, 12:14:43 PM
NESBA is "Not for Profit" right..??
I am not trying to kick any crap here, but I am curious how much of my $185-195 per trackday is donated to RW Action Fund or Red Flag Fund.
Any non-profit charity (501 (c)(3)) has to disclose their records to the public. Check with the IRS and/or Nesba's annual report to see where their money goes.
It does not necessarily have to go to any other non-profit organization, let alone the 2 you mention. Afterall, at the Red Flag Fund, we don't provide NESBA any money, nor can we assist (at this time) any of their members if they go down on a track day.
I know Dustin Boyd almost won the overall in either unl. ss or sbk. he was turning 2:25-26's as a first year racer. he's my hero.... ron hix also had his first race weekend & did very very well. I attribute that to many laps with nesba.. hey garth.... need anymore cr's in the midwest?????
It is nice to see Boyd do well at all tracks.
the expert? no, just somewhat educated.
QuoteIf there is some perceived injustice that you now find it necessary to repeatedly pile on with subjects pertaining with NESBA please let me know so I can at least try and make an attempt to resolve it.
No percieved injustice. just a director that makes comments that I question. I have never said nesba is a bad company. I have never refered to the way they choose to run the business in a negative way. I have only ever taken issue with the spin that gets thrown on it. If you recall, I have actually commended nesba on its business decisions and success. nesba has done a good job.
this thread was nothing more than you throwing rocks at those that questioned the ability of track day riders in a racing environment. Did you really not think it would start a discussion?
I crossed the line? I dont recall ever making a personal comment regarding you. its never been about you.
Quote from: racrx451 on July 17, 2007, 01:19:02 PM
I know Dustin Boyd almost won the overall in either unl. ss or sbk. he was turning 2:25-26's as a first year racer. he's my hero.... ron hix also had his first race weekend & did very very well. I attribute that to many laps with nesba.
thanks racrx451. Congrats to DB. 25's and 26's is awefully fast.
Quote from: RCR_531 on July 17, 2007, 01:31:53 PM
It is nice to see Boyd do well at all tracks.
yeah he had a good weekend at GIR too as I recall
yeah... at GIR, he dipped into the .09's.... eeeeeeeekkkkkkkkk!!!!! just wish I could hang with him. I can out eat him though!
I do track stuff to offset my talk-radio listening.
I enjoy the sport and find it an escape from the BS of real life. Guys, you are getting dangerously close to pissing off people that use this sport to (as I do) to escape politics. Will everyone here please shut-up and check your ego's.
I ride NESBA, STT, PTT (no CCS yet). Any group that promotes getting in, getting involved, getting better, getting faster is a good group.
Stop stepping on your own genitalia or the silent majority will see this BS and step away from the sport. Very stupid
My only problems with NESBA are matters of my personal opinion.
First, I personally think they oversell the track for the disparity in speed that they have and the passing rules that are in place.
Second, I personally think they get dates leading up to race weekends because they know it will boost their attendance from *some* of the racers that are racing that weekend. (I'm only talking about the ones who are only riding because it is the day before a race weekend, but will choose to ride with a trackday org in that situation)
With that in mind, I can not fault NESBA for either practice, because both items increase their revenue. (and don't seem to be hurting their membership or event attendance) So for the business, it seems like good choices.
It does bother me that they claim not to grab dates before race weekends on purpose. I guess I should try to find out when CCS and Nesba confirmed their dates at Road America this year since the July CCS date was new. If it is making you more money, admit to it. The claim that it is coincidence is what bothers me.
It also bothers me that NESBA spends so much time talking about how they don't oversell their groups, when the track seemed so crowded every time I rode with them. And I am comparing them to at least one other organization on the same track, so it is apples to apples.
The biggest issue, and reason that I finally spoke up on the subject, is because of the attitude that I see from people involved with NESBA. While it also seems that some of their members are pretty protective of the organization (and pretty vocal about it), the more noticeable people are CR's and directors and whatever other titles they have. In the instance of this post, Garth came on here bringing up old arguments just to try to kick sand in people's faces. Some people speak up in return, as would be expected, and Garth changes to *condescending, I'm better than you, I'm not lowering myself to your level, Garth* at which point he makes the issue about everyone else rather than himself. This seems to be pretty stereotypically passive-aggressive behavior, and it's not the first time that I've noticed it.
Garth, if you're going to try to drag people into an argument then have the argument. Don't act like you're above it as soon as other people express their perspectives and opinions. The other option, of course, is to keep your mouth shut at the beginning so that no one gets riled up in the first place.
P.S. - I'll be attempting to get my hands on the annual report Jeff, b/c now I'm curious exactly where all that money goes. If some of us have to eat our words, I'll be the first to come on here and do so.
Quote from: racrx451 on July 17, 2007, 02:05:01 PM
I can eat him out though!
:wtf: :ahhh:
I need to grow up :biggrin:
Here we go again. Garth was only noting that the trackday riders/CR/Racers that utilize NESBA to improve their riding did well at Road America. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. Then, the NESBA haters come out of the woodwork and start slamming.
I for one know that G97 works his A$$ off for the sport, be it NESBA, racing, or what ever. I give him props, whatever he got as a result of his efforts, he earned. Any slamming of that is just sour grapes and petty jealousy.
Dr749
I can't believe you guys are missing the entire reason for Garth to post these results. :ahhh:
Can't you see that it simply was his hidden agenda to pat himself on the back for his 4th in Ex GTO, 7th in Ex Unl GP and 7th in Superstock? :kicknuts:
Nice try Garth, but at least one person saw your true motivation! :jerkoff:
:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
QuoteHere we go again. Garth was only noting that the trackday riders/CR/Racers that utilize NESBA to improve their riding did well at Road America.
And I merely mentioned that the results arent that suprising for kids that have spent as many laps on a race track as these guys (and girl) have.
I'd be more impressed with someone that had done 3-4 track days (including learning curves) coming out and cracking the top 10 in those large fields having never been to the track.
Garth was stroking his (nesbas) ego, I wasnt, hence the discussion.
rogers, check your pm :cheers:
I can't beleive I just read all of that..... I'll never get that time back, it's gone :wah:
Quote from: rogers1323 on July 17, 2007, 02:22:04 PM
My only problems with NESBA are matters of my personal opinion.
First, I personally think they oversell the track for the disparity in speed that they have and the passing rules that are in place.
Second, I personally think they get dates leading up to race weekends because they know it will boost their attendance from *some* of the racers that are racing that weekend. (I'm only talking about the ones who are only riding because it is the day before a race weekend, but will choose to ride with a trackday org in that situation)
With that in mind, I can not fault NESBA for either practice, because both items increase their revenue. (and don't seem to be hurting their membership or event attendance) So for the business, it seems like good choices.
It does bother me that they claim not to grab dates before race weekends on purpose. I guess I should try to find out when CCS and Nesba confirmed their dates at Road America this year since the July CCS date was new. If it is making you more money, admit to it. The claim that it is coincidence is what bothers me.
It also bothers me that NESBA spends so much time talking about how they don't oversell their groups, when the track seemed so crowded every time I rode with them. And I am comparing them to at least one other organization on the same track, so it is apples to apples.
The biggest issue, and reason that I finally spoke up on the subject, is because of the attitude that I see from people involved with NESBA. While it also seems that some of their members are pretty protective of the organization (and pretty vocal about it), the more noticeable people are CR's and directors and whatever other titles they have. In the instance of this post, Garth came on here bringing up old arguments just to try to kick sand in people's faces. Some people speak up in return, as would be expected, and Garth changes to *condescending, I'm better than you, I'm not lowering myself to your level, Garth* at which point he makes the issue about everyone else rather than himself. This seems to be pretty stereotypically passive-aggressive behavior, and it's not the first time that I've noticed it.
Garth, if you're going to try to drag people into an argument then have the argument. Don't act like you're above it as soon as other people express their perspectives and opinions. The other option, of course, is to keep your mouth shut at the beginning so that no one gets riled up in the first place.
P.S. - I'll be attempting to get my hands on the annual report Jeff, b/c now I'm curious exactly where all that money goes. If some of us have to eat our words, I'll be the first to come on here and do so.
Dude, you post under a hidden name. Talk alot of crap and do not offer any specifics or details to back them up. Go ahead and slam me and NESBA all you want. Anyone with any amount of objectivity can see your post for what it is and it is nothing constructive or of value.
If you truly have any specific concerns or issue I am more than willing to address them and correct them to the best of my abilities. Your post accomplishes nothing towards resolution and tells me that you have no idea who I am, how I manage things and more important how I run an event. Good day.
I know some of those names from the track before NESBA existed so I don't think those "Nesbians" honed their skills only at track days.
Quote from: G 97 on July 17, 2007, 04:40:54 PM
Dude, you post under a hidden name. Talk alot of crap and do not offer any specifics or details to back them up. Go ahead and slam me and NESBA all you want. Anyone with any amount of objectivity can see your post for what it is and it is nothing constructive or of value.
If you truly have any specific concerns or issue I am more than willing to address them and correct them to the best of my abilities. Your post accomplishes nothing towards resolution and tells me that you have no idea who I am, how I manage things and more important how I run an event. Good day.
And here you are being condescending and passive-aggressive again.
So you tried to find out who I am? Were you going to post my personal information on the BBS like I've seen you do before? I refer back to my previous statement about NESBA having some sort of privacy policy.
Details? How many people does NESBA put on the track? I believe that it used to be 20 people per mile or 45 people per 2 miles. I'm not positive of what that number is. At VIR North, I think that is too crowded (with the passing rules and big disparities in speed that I previously mentioned).
I addressed two specific concerns or issues. I then promptly stated that if "you" (nesba) are comfortable with those situations the way they are then there is nothing to address. I would just like to see the group own up to the situation as it is rather than avoid it as you seem to be doing. For example, "Yes, we choose dates before race weekends on purpose. We do so because......."
I do not know you, have never met you, nor have I ever attended an event that you ran. I didn't claim any of those things either. The only dealings that I've ever had with you were hearing the things you say and way you act here on the board. Based on that, I will choose not to do an event with you if I am ever in the position to do so. Because of your position you are a representative of your group, and I personally think that your attitude is hurting the group rather than helping it.
Quote from: rogers1323 on July 17, 2007, 06:02:33 PMDetails? How many people does NESBA put on the track? I believe that it used to be 20 people per mile or 45 people per 2 miles. I'm not positive of what that number is. At VIR North, I think that is too crowded (with the passing rules and big disparities in speed that I previously mentioned).
I can't speak to VIR North....but I just recently did a trackday with NESBA at Blackhawk farms which is 1.95 miles and not very wide and there were 25 people per session so that would equate to about 13 riders every mile.
I think someone also mentioned in this thread how the prices of NESBA have gone up steadily in the past few years....I'm not an expert on this, and not affialiated with NESBA other than riding with them occassionally, but from what I have heard and seen throughout the last two years the price has gone up as they have lowered the max number allowed in each session. I'm not a finance major, but if they lower revenue by lowering the amount of people that they will take per day it would make sense that the cost per rider would go up. Truth be told....I'm fine with having less track density and paying a tad more for it.
here we go again :ahhh:
Quote from: rogers1323 on July 17, 2007, 06:02:33 PM
Based on that, I will choose not to do an event with you if I am ever in the position to do so.
Thank you
I was talking to a corner worker of some 11 years a RA and he told me that the nesba event are the worst out of any track group that comes there, over crowed,more wrecks,ect..
The only thing I hated about the nesba days I have done which has ony been 2 was wear I couldnt goto advance session unless they tell me its ok, I think anyone with a valid race licsence should be able to goto advance, Instead of we will evaluate you over several trackdays and let you know. Thats BS. I found myself dodge around intermediate riders and have to ruin session because of it or come up on a CR. The CR thing isnt a bad idea it just racers trying to log tracktime should have to deal with that.
Garth, istead of coming on here being a asshole, you should have just posted a congratulations to your group members for there effort, Instead of putting it up there like you did.
Quote from: gonecrazy on July 17, 2007, 07:44:47 PMThe only thing I hated about the nesba days I have done which has ony been 2 was wear I couldnt goto advance session unless they tell me its ok, I think anyone with a valid race licsence should be able to goto advance, Instead of we will evaluate you over several trackdays and let you know. Thats BS. I found myself dodge around intermediate riders and have to ruin session because of it or come up on a CR. The CR thing isnt a bad idea it just racers trying to log tracktime should have to deal with that.
I have personal experience with your comment I would like to share....
I was convinced by a guy who races (250cc's) with CCS to take a trip out to Heartland Park and do a Nesba day last year in November....he started out in Intermediate and asked for an evaluation in the first session and was bumped to Advanced after the session was over.
Did he belong in Advanced in the first place? Hell yeah!!! When we were driving out there I asked him why he wasn't going to be able to ride in Advanced right away and he said "I know I can ride...but they don't, so I really don't mind giving them a 20 minute show"
Quote from: tstruyk on July 17, 2007, 02:39:58 PM
I'd be more impressed with someone that had done 3-4 track days (including learning curves) coming out and cracking the top 10 in those large fields having never been to the track.
Shane Wright and Garrick Schneiderman did all right in amateur stuff. Wasn't Learning Curves, but that's not the point.
Track time isn't the gateway to being fast. If it was, Honda would have Nicky on the bike all the time to beat Stoner, etc.
Wow Garth, you really stirred up the hornets nest on this one. Regardless of all the bullshit, mumbo jumbo politics the fact of the matter is all of the riders posted are fast. Amateur or not, who cares? If you are a first time CCS road racer you ARE STILL AN AMATUER RACER. So the argument about that is crap. Long time dirt tracker, Moto crosser, fast canyon carver, running from the cops in corn fields, if you are a first timer competing in CCS you are still an amateur racer. STT, PTT, NESBA...ECT who cares? Sometimes people forget that they are out to have fun and ride motorcycles. Sometimes people forget why they got involved in the sport. Sometimes people need to mind their own business.
To hear/read that NESBA has faster, better riders than other orgs is getting old. I guess it matters who shows up that day doesn't it? I think it's great that claimed fast track day riders are getting out and doing some racing to actually prove they are fast in competition.
All the big track day orgs are so much the same, but have their little differences. It's an old augment and needs to die. Monte does an exceptional job organizing and putting on track days just like all the rest of the orgs. Personally, and it's my opinion, I think he has the best structure for Novices. All the orgs have a different way of approaching the structure in which they operate. Some are structured better than others, some people like different structures more than others. Some don't care, are tired of hearing and reading these crap arguments like this and just want to have fun and ride their motorcycles. Once you are an advanced rider all of the orgs are the same.
We all ride, we all love the sport otherwise we wouldn't participate or read this forum rite? Let's all keep the worthless arguments to ourselves, have fun and ride.
Quote from: JBraun on July 17, 2007, 02:24:21 PM
:wtf: :ahhh:
I need to grow up :biggrin:
hey, i didn't write that.. fugger..
Some cat over on DC Sportbikes found and posted our tax return from 2006. I'm pretty sure it is still over there someplace if anyone wants to go looking. I think I actually heard crickets in that thread once it was put up.
Quote from: grasshopper on July 17, 2007, 08:07:52 PM
Wow Garth, you really stirred up the hornets nest on this one. Regardless of all the bullshit, mumbo jumbo politics the fact of the matter is all of the riders posted are fast. Amateur or not, who cares? If you are a first time CCS road racer you ARE STILL AN AMATUER RACER. So the argument about that is crap. Long time dirt tracker, Moto crosser, fast canyon carver, running from the cops in corn fields, if you are a first timer competing in CCS you are still an amateur racer. STT, PTT, NESBA...ECT who cares? Sometimes people forget that they are out to have fun and ride motorcycles. Sometimes people forget why they got involved in the sport. Sometimes people need to mind their own business.
To hear/read that NESBA has faster, better riders than other orgs is getting old. I guess it matters who shows up that day doesn't it? I think it's great that claimed fast track day riders are getting out and doing some racing to actually prove they are fast in competition.
All the big track day orgs are so much the same, but have their little differences. It's an old augment and needs to die. Monte does an exceptional job organizing and putting on track days just like all the rest of the orgs. Personally, and it's my opinion, I think he has the best structure for Novices. All the orgs have a different way of approaching the structure in which they operate. Some are structured better than others, some people like different structures more than others. Some don't care, are tired of hearing and reading these crap arguments like this and just want to have fun and ride their motorcycles. Once you are an advanced rider all of the orgs are the same.
We all ride, we all love the sport otherwise we wouldn't participate or read this forum rite? Let's all keep the worthless arguments to ourselves, have fun and ride.
What argument are you reffering to? Who said anything about STT. STT has nothing to do with this. Funny how you seem compelled to think that it involves anything to do with STT, but since you took the time to bring it up where did all of the STT track coaches and members who raced place anyway?
Inferiority complex?
Yeah I thought so.
Quote from: gonecrazy on July 17, 2007, 07:44:47 PM
I was talking to a corner worker of some 11 years a RA and he told me that the nesba event are the worst out of any track group that comes there, over crowed,more wrecks,ect..
The only thing I hated about the nesba days I have done which has ony been 2 was wear I couldnt goto advance session unless they tell me its ok, I think anyone with a valid race licsence should be able to goto advance, Instead of we will evaluate you over several trackdays and let you know. Thats BS. I found myself dodge around intermediate riders and have to ruin session because of it or come up on a CR. The CR thing isnt a bad idea it just racers trying to log tracktime should have to deal with that.
Garth, istead of coming on here being a asshole, you should have just posted a congratulations to your group members for there effort, Instead of putting it up there like you did.
Could someone please translate this into any form of understandable communication? I think my six year old niece has better written communication skills and she really loves crayons. :lmao:
What was the point of this thread? Just wondering.
Quote from: Helmsman on July 17, 2007, 11:20:19 PM
What was the point of this thread? Just wondering.
I think it was that you need a big paddock to make space for all the NESBA peoples heads?
Quote from: Helmsman on July 17, 2007, 11:20:19 PM
What was the point of this thread? Just wondering.
Um......
wabbit season????
Isnt any Helms. Just another thread to create drama.
I quit going to NESBA when I tried it out and was trying to play by the rules and was told I wasn't passing enough to be put in advanced. Then, after I went out and passed at will I was told I was passing to aggressively and that I should be careful because my closing speeds on other riders could be dangerous..........but I couldn't be put in Advanced. *confused*
I think that they would be a great org to run track days in in the advanced group because it seems very low attended in advanced. However, I doubt I'll spend another ~200 dodging through intermediate to get there.
Quote from: Helmsman on July 17, 2007, 11:20:19 PM
What was the point of this thread? Just wondering.
It's a conspiracy to waste time, boost post counts and shoot for the coveted top-thread. And Garth has a tried & true methodology in place.
It seemed, to me, that Garth was just applauding his members and CR's that did well at RA. Then... everyone started the NESBA bashing again....
NESBA kicks ass, congratulations to all who finished well.... and while so many of you cry about not being able to go to the Advanced group, and how bad of an org NESBA is.... Maybe if you would come ride with us, you could get better results too. The instruction ends in the advanced group, and I'd imagine a lot of you that 'couldnt get into the A group' could still use some good quality instruction and tips.
Congrats Nesbians... especially Ron, kicking butt at his first race weekend. And Melissa... she represented us female Nesbians well!!
is it hard to type with Pom Poms?
Quote from: tstruyk on July 18, 2007, 12:12:19 PM
is it hard to type with Pom Poms?
Maybe you should tell us Tim since it's spelled Pom Pons! :kicknuts:
Gimme a 'N' Gimme an 'E' Gimme a 'S' .........
HAHA... I could probably even ride with them 8)
Garth was bringing up old arguments. He did so subtly, so that it sounded only like "congrats" to those who are unaware of the old arguments. This is why I labeled him as passive-aggressive.
I have nothing but good things to say to those riders who went out and did well, especially if it was their first weekend.
Quote from: Burt Munro on July 18, 2007, 12:27:00 PM
Maybe you should tell us Tim since it's spelled Pom Pons! :kicknuts:
Gimme a 'N' Gimme an 'E' Gimme a 'S' .........
well I wouldnt know since I was never a cheerleader... :ass:
Quote from: suzukigirl on July 18, 2007, 12:30:02 PM
HAHA... I could probably even ride with them 8)
just not in the "A" group... :ahhh:
Quote from: tstruyk on July 18, 2007, 12:46:48 PM
well I wouldnt know since I was never a cheerleader... :ass:
You could always add it to your '100 things to do before I die' list!
dare to dream...
I have always said if i could do it over I would be a male cheerleader. Next time you see one holding a female in the air check where his hand is. I have never seen a bad looking female cheerleader either. :biggrin:
Rodney...are you heading up Thursday night for BHF????
Quote from: backMARKr on July 18, 2007, 01:14:22 PM
Rodney...are you heading up Thursday night for BHF????
Oh sorry everybody...my bad:
NESBA sucks....No it doesn't :ahhh: :ahhh: :ahhh: :ahhh:
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:...I love summer vacation.....
Quote from: RCR_531 on July 18, 2007, 01:03:30 PM
I have always said if i could do it over I would be a male cheerleader. Next time you see one holding a female in the air check where his hand is. I have never seen a bad looking female cheerleader either. :biggrin:
For some reason while I read this all I could imagine was Will Ferrell doing his SNL cheerleader routine!
Quote from: Burt Munro on July 18, 2007, 01:18:19 PM
For some reason while I read this all I could imagine was Will Ferrell doing his SNL cheerleader routine!
You know what this thread needs???!!!!
THE PERFECT CHEER!!!!
Quote from: suzukigirl on July 18, 2007, 12:30:02 PM
HAHA... I could probably even ride with them 8)
Somehow, I'm not going to be surprised to see pics of this from the next trackday!
Then the rulebook will change from no sparking knee sliders OR Pom Pons.
Quote from: Helmsman on July 17, 2007, 11:20:19 PM
What was the point of this thread? Just wondering.
Aww shucks, well Garth was trying to draw me out as to what I did during my vacation these last few weeks. I was gonna hit RA for some choice TD time with the NESBA crew and run some sweet CCS laps behind the Experts I try to chase, but then I noticed I REALLY needed new tires on the truck- 10 ply E rated tires cost a left nut in case you are about to go shopping for them. Oh jeez, then a buddy up nort called and needed beau cheau $$$, ASAP, and wanted to sell his titled CR250R for a song, or in this case about what Michelin tires and fees woulda been for da RA gig. Oh criminey- I'll go take a look up nort der as I hadn't done some good trail ridin in a while. Get up der and the bike's a beaut and to boot he trows in dis ancient stick welding unit with leads being 50' long that probably hold $100 worth o' copper. Game on-CRs in da truck wit da welder to pick up when I get some spare time. Oh criminey, now I'll miss RA and that greatest of great tire guys Tom Mason and his fastman Edgar! Crap. What about the bestest suspension guy in the Midwest Ed Kwaterski of Showa magic!? Geez, I missed Ed too. Crap. And that RFFA auction thingy with all the money bein trown around! Danggitsall! :wah:
But, hey, ya know, I did see lotsa loons, bald eagles, largemouth bass, northerns, deer, firelanes, flying pistol cartridges, plenty o pre-mix, DNR wardens in the CRs mirror, and I got to see my dear old Mother visiting from AZ. :kissy:
Anybody goin out to the Toyota 200/200 @ WSMC in September? How do you qualify for dat der eevent?
Oh yeah, congrats to ALL the guys and gals at the R Am weekend who didn't get an airlift chopper ride. :thumb:
I'm guessing that you've lived in Wisconsin your whole life, right?
Do you know Sven and Ole? How about the Diesel Fitter story? :thumb:
Or Tim (not me) the die hard packer fan???
Quote from: Burt Munro on July 18, 2007, 02:16:34 PM
I'm guessing that you've lived in Wisconsin your whole life, right?
Do you know Sven and Ole? How about the Diesel Fitter story? :thumb:
Oh yeah sure, pretty much my whole life. Diesel fitter? You tell dat one and I'll tell about Ole, Lena, and da sex terapist. :thumb:
Tim , da die hard packer fan? Anybody who maintained their green tru da days of Chester Marcol is alright by me! uff da. :cheers:
I have to give credit on this one to Dawn who shared it on this board....
Sven & Ole worked together and both were laid off,so they went to the unemployment office.
Asked his occupation, Ole said, "Panty Stitcher. I sew der elastic onto ladies cotton panties." The clerk looked up panty stitcher and found it classified as unskilled labor, so she gave him $300 a week employment pay.
Sven was asked his occupation."Diesel fitter" he replied. Since diesel fitter was a skilled job, the clerk gave Sven $600 a week.
When Ole found out he was furious. He stormed back into the office to find out why his friend and coworker was collecting double his pay. The clerk explained, "Panty stitchers are unskilled and diesel fitters are skilled labor."
"What skill?" yelled Ole. "I sew der elastic on der panties, I pass 'em on over to Sven and he puts dem over his head and says, yah, diesel fitter."
5 ticks left in the Super Bowl, the Pack they trailed by one.
The ball marked near the fifty. Favre warmed up his gun.
And in the other end zone a man rose to his feet.
Tim the Die-Hard-Packer-Fan, knew this was destiny.
Shirtless, painted green and gold from his forehead to his heiny.
The smile slowly left his face. He said, "Someone hold my Leiny".
He wet his finger, felt the air. A headwind turned their way.
"Favre", he thought, "He's got the gun, but he needs our help, ya hey?"
He lumbered down the steps. His mission now was clear.
Neutralize the headwind, or wait another year.
And as he stepped onto the field, security stopped him short.
They asked him who he was, he said "I'm Tim, I'm from up Nort."
Whereabouts they fired back. Sheboygan, he revealed. Whaddy catch?
He said "Mostly Pike"
They let him on the field.
As Favre barked out the signals, Tim chugged a giant beer.
And then another, and one after that, as tension filled the air.
The ball was snapped, a route was run, Favre unleashed the ball.
Never had there been a spiral, so clean and far and tall.
And then it hit the headwind and started coming back.
Tim felt a rumble in his gut, now was time to act.
The burp came out so long and hard, the Yukon felt a breeze.
A tidal wave of beer and brats and half a wheel of cheese.
The blimp was lost for 7 days,
skybox glass was shattered.
An OshKosh woman lost her teeth. Tim's stomach left in tatters.
But the pass came down, the catch was made, and just before Tim died.
He was heard to say "The Pack are Back Oh For Cry Ay Ay"
His headstone reads, "Tim gave his life. Never did he wince.
He tailgates high above old Lambeau, grilling brats with Vince".
by Paul Gilmartin
oh boy, here we go den :lmao:
ole and lena were havin a little trouble in da bedroom so lena went to see da sex terapist.
"well doc, ole and I seem to have lost some of our bedroom magic, der."
"well, lena have you tried some of those crotchless panties? those might do wonders fer you and old Ole der."
en so, lena goes down to da woolworth's and finds some o dose crotchless panties and gets back to da cabin before Ole, changes into da outfit, and lays herslf out on the couch before Ole gets home. she's got one leg laid up high on the couch back with one hand dangling down in her crotch. ole comes tru da door, sees lena all laid out on da couch wit her hand down THERE, and lena says " say Ole how'd you like some o dis here tonight?"
" hell NO", ole says, Look what it's done to your underwear!" :err:
Freaking Norweigans.:lmao:
Quote from: G 97 on July 17, 2007, 10:50:41 PM
What argument are you reffering to? Who said anything about STT. STT has nothing to do with this. Funny how you seem compelled to think that it involves anything to do with STT, but since you took the time to bring it up where did all of the STT track coaches and members who raced place anyway?
Inferiority complex?
Yeah I thought so.
Your reply proves you missed my point 100%. I actually complimented the riders you posted and acknowledge the fact that they truly are exceptional riders/racers. No doubt man. Replying with such an aggressive reaction implies you are only trying to stir something up.
I referenced STT because they have supported me through my racing effort and my bulk of track day experience is with them and that is how I was able to relate to some of the talk in this thread.
I can tell you how some STT saff placed and how my weekend went since you asked. But only because you asked. :rollseyes:
Paul Ducato, K3 and Monte Nichols placed 3rd in the team challenge and they are STT instructors. Rob Simmons (Am #377) had a handful of podium finishes in the amateur field and he has coached with us. I don't think too many other STT staffers were there because most race WERA. I think STT did Ok don't you think?
In my first expert race weekend we placed 7th in class out of 13 and 14th over all out of 32 in the GTO Team Challenge with Dave Vaughn on his GSXR750 (Chi Town Hustlers Baby). Montez Stewart bailed out on us without any notice. Then I found out my SV was over heating and I blew both head gaskets so I rebuilt my entire top end :wah: in the pits next to my 1983 ugly van while drinking cold Fat Tire beers with my friends. Brian Conley from Valley racing, Brian Kwak, Paul, Guy and many others helped me. Thanks fellows! :cheers: I missed GTL. I then raced LWSB, battled it out with a guy from Florida on a Ducati 1000 for 4th, we must have drafted each other 4 times and passed each other hard another 4 times into different corners. It was fun as hell and I ended up finishing 5th out of 13. Maybe some day I can hang with Ed Key. We all have dreams rite? I then raced Thunderbike and got my ass out horse powered by Buells and finished 12th out of 18. But if you look at the finishes that isn't that bad compared to the guys I would like to hang with in the midwest. I worked my ass off that weekend to even be out there.
This thread isn't about STT though... So who gives a flying ratts ass? :ass:
Back to the jokes. Keep them coming guys, good ones. :lmao: This whole thread is a joke.
Quote from: Headdog122 on July 17, 2007, 09:32:28 AM
Does anyone want me to forward my results...?? :jerkoff:
I had a NESBA membership back in the day!! You know, when trackdays were $125-135 and a membership fee was not required. BTW... What is the standard rate of inflation annually..??
I like the "Non-profit"..!! Are those aluminum "Feather Lite" trailers you guys fill the paddock with..?? :boink:
Actually JRay NESBA does fall under the section 501(c)(7) rules of engagement as a social club,
1. It charges a membership fee.
2. It is organized for fun.
3. It does not discriminate against members.
4. All members share the same interest and have "social gatherings" (trackdays) towards there purpose of fun.
5. It doesn't make a profit of greater than 15% They probably dump it right back into the org.
I don't imagine that NESBA makes more than a million dollars a year and probably dumps most of that back into renting the tracks. NESBA charges a membership because according to the law of the US(IRS) have to.
P.S. I am not a member of NESBA either.
Edit: They are not 501(c)(7) like I thought. You guys really should be, at least you could justify your membership to others.
Also they(NESBA) did not really make much money according to their 2005 return:
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2005/232/845/2005-232845798-029f0d75-9.pdf
If you can't open it just go to guidstar.org and open an account, it's free.
Hey G -97 You are on the wrong website,go to nesba .com.
By your karma You not very popular here :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Quote from: surftheasphalt on July 19, 2007, 10:07:28 PM
Hey G -97 You are on the wrong website,go to nesba .com.
By your karma You not very popular here :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Your karma is fantastic....
Quote from: surftheasphalt on July 19, 2007, 10:07:28 PM
Hey G -97 You are on the wrong website,go to nesba .com.
By your karma You not very popular here :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
I am fortunate. :biggrin:
It's not surprising when trackday riders and coaches do well at a race. Trackdays provide much more track time per dollar than racing does, and practice helps.
For example, a trackday rider can expect to run 7 twenty-minute sessions at Road America in a day. Depending on lap times, that's 7-8 laps per session, or approximately 50 laps per day.
Now, no offense meant, but it could take an amateur club racer on a budget 3 seasons and 2 grand to run 50 laps at Road America with CCS.
Oh, and for the record, our team DID NOT get third in GTU in the team challenge. We WOULD HAVE gotten third, but we missed our window of protest. CCS managed to score us for 33 laps, even though we had 36 transponder hits. Considering the way every other thing was handled that weekend, it's not surprising that scoring was screwed up too....
Quote from: K3 Chris Onwiler on July 20, 2007, 05:09:50 AM
It's not surprising when trackday riders and coaches do well at a race. Trackdays provide much more track time per dollar than racing does, and practice helps.
For example, a trackday rider can expect to run 7 twenty-minute sessions at Road America in a day. Depending on lap times, that's 7-8 laps per session, or approximately 50 laps per day.
Now, no offense meant, but it could take an amateur club racer on a budget 3 seasons and 2 grand to run 50 laps at Road America with CCS.
Oh, and for the record, our team DID NOT get third in GTU in the team challenge. We WOULD HAVE gotten third, but we missed our window of protest. CCS managed to score us for 33 laps, even though we had 36 transponder hits. Considering the way every other thing was handled that weekend, it's not surprising that scoring was screwed up too....
So then what you are saying is that one can accelerate their ability to go fast by using trackdays before going to the racetrack?
Not speaking for K3, but I believe the answer is yes.
And God knows I'm unbiased and not affiliated with anything or I'd be racing more this seaason. ::)
real world?
sure... there is potential for someone to go faster if they do track days for years and then go racing. I dont think anyone doubts that. The point that K3 is making (I think) is that its no big suprise when someone comes to the table with the equivalant of laps it would take a dedicated racer a decade to accumulate. Noone is on here stroking ed key for his weekend (ok a few more decades in that example). The finishers still have to do the job and earn the finish... but to single their accomplishments out because of the TD provider they ride with or for, well... yeah... anyway.
Practice can help find speed. Of course there are those that are just fast outta the gates, and those that will never be fast regardless of how many track days they do.
I really dont have the answer to this question but how many track days did Curt Henderson do before racing? I dont seem to remember hearing of or seeing him around (not that I'm a reg TD guy by ANY means).
Personally I found more enjoyment testing my abilities with peers of equal experience (real AM's with minimal laps), then sandbaggin at TD's for 2-4 years to make sure I can finish in the top 3. I dunno, just seemed more... pure. Maybe thats my underlying issue. Everyone has their own motivation.
My post is not nesba or Garth relatedQuote from: tstruyk on July 20, 2007, 10:56:52 AM
Personally I found more enjoyment testing my abilities with peers of equal experience (real AM's with minimal laps), then sandbaggin at TD's for 2-4 years to make sure I can finish in the top 3. I dunno, just seemed more... pure.
A big +1. I don't have much (if any) respect for a trackday guy waiting for his laptimes to reach a competitive level before sacking-up in amatuer....at that point, even the best amatuer finishes are not going to be impressive to me.
Like K3 said, these multi season trackday guys put in hella more laps than a racer, so they should be faster than the normal amatuer.
Quote from: 61Ex on July 20, 2007, 03:49:19 AM
Freaking puggle breeders. :lmao:
Anit no fucking puggle breeder. Puggle isnt anything more than a mixed breed with a fancy name to scam people out of money. Sad when you have to deal with people who think pugs came from puggles. :banghead: Yep, pugs, a 2000 yr old breed, came from a designer dog thats not been around more than 5-7yrs. Fuck yuppies and their 'need' for having 'breeds' for their mixed breed dogs.
Quote from: Woofentino Pugrossi on July 20, 2007, 12:58:59 PM
Anit no fucking puggle breeder. Puggle isnt anything more than a mixed breed with a fancy name to scam people out of money. Sad when you have to deal with people who think pugs came from puggles. :banghead: Yep, pugs, a 2000 yr old breed, came from a designer dog thats not been around more than 5-7yrs. Fuck yuppies and their 'need' for having 'breeds' for their mixed breed dogs.
:kissy: yup, I bought a fishing license for trolling whilst up nort der, eh?!
My post is Garth and NESBA related as there's a bunch of dog owners in the NESBA crew that need 940's lowdown on JUST what exactly IS in a puggle anyway!! :lmao:
no labradoodles, chickapoos, or any other of the teddy bears or golden doodles too! :biggrin:
Quote from: Speedballer347 on July 20, 2007, 12:03:10 PM
My post is not nesba or Garth related
A big +1. I don't have much (if any) respect for a trackday guy waiting for his laptimes to reach a competitive level before sacking-up in amatuer....at that point, even the best amatuer finishes are not going to be impressive to me.
Like K3 said, these multi season trackday guys put in hella more laps than a racer, so they should be faster than the normal amatuer.
+2
Quote from: Speedballer347 on July 20, 2007, 12:03:10 PM
A big +1. I don't have much (if any) respect for a trackday guy waiting for his laptimes to reach a competitive level before sacking-up in amatuer....at that point, even the best amatuer finishes are not going to be impressive to me.
Like K3 said, these multi season trackday guys put in hella more laps than a racer, so they should be faster than the normal amatuer.
Quote from: eightonezero on July 20, 2007, 01:11:03 PM
+2
+3
I dunno, I'd say it's a very individualized thing too. I didn't wait for my laptimes to go down before I uh, "sacked-up" with my imaginary nuts and got a license, but I'm sorry that because I'm a track day rider (with a variety of orgs) that some of you may not have any respect for me. That's unfortunate. (I'm also not fast, nor competitive, so I might not count, but hear me out anyway.)
There's a distinct difference in the personality of a race day and a track day. Both myself and and a friend who just got his license and started racing after doing a lot of track days have found that there's a switch in our brains that changes the level of adrenaline and focus during a race vs. track day. I'm 10-20 seconds faster in a race. There's no comparison in the feeling. You wont learn race craft at a track day, but you will learn how to ride better, no doubt about it.
I'm not fast, but of every fast guy I've talked to, they've all said the same thing to me - that they're more comfortable with me on the track than some people who are faster just because I'm smooth, predictable, and take good lines. I owe that to the amount of time I've spent on track. I'm quite happy that even though I feel like a moving chicane, that I'm not pissing everybody off by being one of those slow amateurs who's all over the track and has no business in a race (which I've heard discussed in the past). Guess we can't win no matter what we do?
I also don't see a lot of people who's goal it is to be a racer hanging out for years at track days until they're "ready" for racing. If you've got the fire in your belly to go race, you're not going to wait. Plenty people can hit the track a couple times and end up fast without much practice. Some can't. How many guys out there do you know that have been racing for a while but never win any races? Maybe they should do a couple track days? More often I see peeps get into riding at track days, advance through the groups, and then decide later on they want to take it to the next level and try racing. Not everybody has to take the same path... and not everyone has to race to get enjoyment out of riding at a track.
I would have never started racing had I not started with track days, racing was never my intention. It has been said before and I'll say again, that it might be wise to cultivate more racers, and welcome track day riders into racing to help keep the sport going.
This animosity between track day riders vs. racers and track day org. vs. track day org. is a bunch of hooey to me.
Quote from: Speedballer347 on July 20, 2007, 12:03:10 PMA big +1. I don't have much (if any) respect for a trackday guy waiting for his laptimes to reach a competitive level before sacking-up in amatuer....at that point, even the best amatuer finishes are not going to be impressive to me.
Like K3 said, these multi season trackday guys put in hella more laps than a racer, so they should be faster than the normal amatuer.
I'm thinking about racing next year and have been following this thread and I have a few questions regarding this post.
1. If I'm a former trackday rider and I choose to race then I'm not "worthy" of any credit for my accomplishments?
2. If I choose to work on my skills before racing in order to be a safer and more competitive rider I lose respect from my fellow racers/riders?
and the final question
3. Who would YOU rather throw your bike into turn 1 with.... someone who knows there way around the track or someone who decided they wanted to race and has never set foot on a track other than the licensing school?
Quote from: truckstop on July 20, 2007, 02:17:55 PM
I would have never started racing had I not started with track days, racing was never my intention. It has been said before and I'll say again, that it might be wise to cultivate more racers, and welcome track day riders into racing to help keep the sport going.
This is true for me too...I have been riding for MANY years and NEVER considered racing until I did a few trackdays.
Quote from: Speedballer347 on July 20, 2007, 12:03:10 PM
A big +1. I don't have much (if any) respect for a trackday guy waiting for his laptimes to reach a competitive level before sacking-up in amatuer....at that point, even the best amatuer finishes are not going to be impressive to me.
Like K3 said, these multi season trackday guys put in hella more laps than a racer, so they should be faster than the normal amatuer.
QuotePersonally I found more enjoyment testing my abilities with peers of equal experience (real AM's with minimal laps), then sandbaggin at TD's for 2-4 years to make sure I can finish in the top 3. I dunno, just seemed more... pure. Maybe thats my underlying issue. Everyone has their own motivation.
+5 Gadgillion......
I mean seriously, come on, practice before you go racing?? Measure and hone your skills at a racetrack before trying to be competitive on a race track? That takes all the fun out of it for us guys that just want to go out there with no practice and win races... As a matter of fact anyone that rides a bike that was made after 1995 is really cheating in my opinion. These new bikes are so much better than the bikes that are really the "sole" of racing. Additionally anyone who uses these full face helmets really takes away the true meaning of racing. I mean seriously, anyone who goes racing without the fear of ripping their face off is really not riding with the same mindset that we used to have back in the day... I mean lets face it, racing was so much more fun when the bike couldn't turn, open-face helmets were common, tires were half as wide and twice as sticky, and there were no trackdays to practice... It's just plain cheating too me and no fun... Amazingly comparable to competing in the special olympics, it just aint fair....
Quote from: red900 on July 20, 2007, 02:34:12 PM
that are really the "sole" of racing
I think you meant "soul", or maybe you really don't get it...
truck and fire... you are missing the point completely. :banghead:
your worthy if you choose to race now
your worthy if you choose to do trackdays until you can run a top 3 expert lap time, its just not that impressive to me for a "first race weekend ever".
get over the thought that this thread is directed at anyone, or more to the point... you... its not.
I just refuse to get overly excited for people that hang out in track days until they can run up front. If thats there motivation.. fine. But I'm not going to be impressed, I dont have to be. If you are impressed.. then YAY you!!
How bout this.
Lets see if I can make an anology. I used to swim competitvly 15 years and 50 pounds ago. I competed in USS swim meets throughout the midwest. never really won anything big, was competitive but only at a regional level... never made nationals.
Now... if all I did was train from the time I was 4 until I was 15... never competed, just trained. trained until I KNEW that I could beat anyone in the pool... then came on the scene and finsihed top 3 everywhere I went. Would it be THAT impressive? Yes the results are good... but would it be a suprise?
thats my point. If you still dont get it I dont know what to say. I have repeatedly stated that the results are good. No doubt. you finish well you should be congratulated.
IMO if you hold out on racing because you feel "unsafe" then yeah... wait til your ready, I call that smart. I did 4-5 TD's before I felt comfortable gridding up, I'm not referring to that mindset. But to hold out until you can crack the top 3 every race? I guess I just dont see what the fun in that is. again, different people have different motivation.
red900... who said its cheating? I just said I'm not impressed.
Wow, another twist.
Quote from: Firecat on July 20, 2007, 02:22:49 PM
I'm thinking about racing next year and have been following this thread and I have a few questions regarding this post.
1. If I'm a former trackday rider and I choose to race then I'm not "worthy" of any credit for my accomplishments?
2. If I choose to work on my skills before racing in order to be a safer and more competitive rider I lose respect from my fellow racers/riders?
and the final question
3. Who would YOU rather throw your bike into turn 1 with.... someone who knows there way around the track or someone who decided they wanted to race and has never set foot on a track other than the licensing school?
1. The point was made about people doing trackdays for years, and then making a huge deal about being fast. Credit is still due, but it is less impressive.
2. I'm not sure anyone said anything about respect based choosing to be safer. Plus, most people improve much more quickly by racing than by doing trackdays.
3. There are plenty (thought not all) people who do track days for years and are still not comfortable with close racing. Those people, however, may register early and get into the front group for turn 1 because of their skill. Those who are brand new to the track with no experience, however, will be at the back of the grid and will rarely make their way to the front by turn 1. Yes, I have to worry about it later in the race when I lap them, but I am not at all comfortable throwing it into turn 1 with a trackday rider who is just starting racing.
Quote from: red900 on July 20, 2007, 02:34:12 PM
I mean seriously, come on, practice before you go racing?? Measure and hone your skills at a racetrack before trying to be competitive on a race track? That takes all the fun out of it for us guys that just want to go out there with no practice and win races... , it just aint fair....
It's great to have CR's (coaches) out there doing well with us common amatuers. I did two days with nesba a couple years ago, got bumped to intermediate, maybe rode three more track days with other orgs then, and did two free race licensing schools. More of a true amatuer, I dropped four seconds from my track day times in the first weekend racing. I'm on about my sixth race weekend with just about no trackdays since I started racing (can't really afford them) and I'm hooked on the competition that racing has to offer. I've placed 3rd, 4th, and some 5th's in some very competitive classes, but I don't have the same amount of track time as some out there with us. I don't believe I'm a dangerous rider having less track time, but comparing the # of laps we've both run around a given track would be a joke.
Quote from: Gixxerblade on July 19, 2007, 07:55:02 PM
Actually JRay NESBA does fall under the section 501(c)(7) rules of engagement as a social club,
1. It charges a membership fee.
2. It is organized for fun.
3. It does not discriminate against members.
4. All members share the same interest and have "social gatherings" (trackdays) towards there purpose of fun.
5. It doesn't make a profit of greater than 15% They probably dump it right back into the org.
I don't imagine that NESBA makes more than a million dollars a year and probably dumps most of that back into renting the tracks. NESBA charges a membership because according to the law of the US(IRS) have to.
P.S. I am not a member of NESBA either.
Edit: They are not 501(c)(7) like I thought. You guys really should be, at least you could justify your membership to others.
Also they(NESBA) did not really make much money according to their 2005 return:
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2005/232/845/2005-232845798-029f0d75-9.pdf
If you can't open it just go to guidstar.org and open an account, it's free.
Clark..
Why you always got to disagree... You seem to always try and take oposition. Having said that, I would like to disclose my favorite Steve Clark QUOTE..!!
"See Jamie, your one of those guys that knows how to go fast and tell people, but can't go fast yourself!!" :kicknuts:
That one is classic...!! Thanks for the motivation..!! You should be a traveling motivational speaker, Tony Robbins watch out..!! :thumb:
he,he,he....
You guys either don't get it, or don't want to get it.
There is a BIG difference between doing trackdays, then wanting to get into racing
-versus-
doing trackdays, hitting all of your region's tracks for far too long....with the INTENT of going out and crushing in amatuer.
Nothing wrong with honing your skill and confidence....I am talking about something different here.
There aint nothing in the rules about going into amatuer with 32,000 trackday miles....but you wont get my vote for rookie-superstar.
Like I said, INTENT is what I am talking about here. Two completely different intents. One I am all for, and one I have no respect for.
Naw, I didn't miss the point, that's why I said in the first paragraph that I realized I might not count as far as who you're talking about and I know it wasn't directed at me. Just wanted to throw my own POV out there as a track day rider. While I don't agree with a lot of what Garth says, and many times I don't think what he says here is good PR for NESBA, (FYI I've never had the opportunity to ride with NESBA) a lot of what racers say about track day riders in general in a number of different threads hasn't been exactly welcoming either.
QuoteNow... if all I did was train from the time I was 4 until I was 15... never competed, just trained. trained until I KNEW that I could beat anyone in the pool... then came on the scene and finsihed top 3 everywhere I went. Would it be THAT impressive? Yes the results are good... but would it be a suprise?
Impressive? Honestly? Yes. I think anybody in any sport who can do well is impressive. A surprise? No. As for the original point of this thread, yes, I'm impressed with the finishes of the listed riders. Am I surprised? No.
At the same time I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who starts out track riding with the intention of racing, then goes and practices for 11 years (from your swimming example) at track days, and then go out to race. Would I be impressed? Heck yeah, that's a lot of dedication to a sport.
My main point to all my :blahblah: was mostly that I really don't think you'll find a lot of racers who have done this, with the intent to put in 32,000 miles and then go out and race... or who hold out to crack the top three. Double check their intentions - did they all start out wanting to be racers? ... and I was in total agreement that different people have different motivation ... but I'm not going to look down at someone for how they got somewhere unless it was by nefarious means.
Thanks for the clarification on your thoughts though.
Quote from: truckstop on July 20, 2007, 03:28:38 PM
I really don't think you'll find a lot of racers who have done this, with the intent to put in 32,000 and then go out and race... or who hold out to crack the top three. ...
I can name one :biggrin:
I have ridden with NESBA a couple time and liked it a lot. I think they have a good structer designed to improve ones riding, something I haven't seen with any other TD org.
I like Garth, he's nice guy in person, and from what I have heard from Mike Pruitt....smoking fast.
I have ridden Cycle-ops, STT, MCRA and Nesba and liked them all equally well.
I would also like to make some other statements here:
Micheal Jordon - supposedly practiced hoops before joining the NBA = Sandbagger
Tiger Woods - was caught practicing his swing before joining the tour = Sandbagger
Dale Earnhardt - ticketed several times for speeding before joining Nascar = Sandbagger
Frank Sinatra - recorded singing in the shower at age 13 = Sandbagger
I mean seriously, the thought of these guys practicing before the became stars really ruins my opinion of them. I mean they may be good, but are we really surprised how good they are considering what we know now??
Quote from: rogers1323 on July 20, 2007, 03:08:34 PM1. The point was made about people doing trackdays for years, and then making a huge deal about being fast. Credit is still due, but it is less impressive.
I don't recall any of the finishers listed coming on here and boasting about how fast they are. I also think you are jumping to a SERIOUS conclusion when you assume all those people listed in the first page have been riding trackdays for "years"
Quote from: rogers1323 on July 20, 2007, 03:08:34 PM2. Plus, most people improve much more quickly by racing than by doing trackdays.
I think that this statement is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. When I started riding on the track..my form was horrible...I knew nothing about race lines and was lost and honestly was a danger to those around me because of my lack of knowledge. Through coaching I was able to learn the proper race line, how to properly get off my bike and how to actually ride the track.
Not with that said...I probably could have dropped laptimes much quicker while racing...but for me, eventually I would have hit a wall because there were so many other things that would have been wrong with my riding. I may have improved more slowly doing trackdays but my improvement while riding trackdays has been in the areas where I will truly recognize faster times when the time comes to race...and what I have learned will keep me safer when racing.
Quote from: rogers1323 on July 20, 2007, 03:08:34 PMbut I am not at all comfortable throwing it into turn 1 with a trackday rider who is just starting racing.
I didn't ask if you would be comfortable....I asked "Who would you RATHER...."
Quote from: truckstop on July 20, 2007, 02:17:55 PM
There's a distinct difference in the personality of a race day and a track day. I'm 10-20 seconds faster in a race.
I sure hope I can pick up 10 seconds or more between Friday and Saturday next weekend........
I might actually get into the 20s at Blackhawk... :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Quote from: red900 on July 20, 2007, 03:59:02 PM
Who?
I aint going down that road. I am not here to oust or insult any particular person or discredit their finishes.
I know of one, I am sure there are others. I don't need to name names, because I really don't care. I was never impressed by their finishes....are they fast? are they good riders? did they deserve their finishes?....YES, absolutely!
Am I suprised or in awe...nope :sleeping2:
Hey man, I said several times that I'm slow, and I know it... that means lots of room for improvement. :biggrin: My 10 second increments are like a fast guys' .10 increment at this point. :ahhh: ... and I'd be thrilled to get into the 20s... hey... stop laughing.
Come on Speedy, it's OK, you can out yourself...
Hi, My name is Speedballer and i'm a...
Quote from: red900 on July 20, 2007, 03:50:30 PM
I would also like to make some other statements here:
Micheal Jordon - supposedly practiced hoops before joining the NBA = Sandbagger
Tiger Woods - was caught practicing his swing before joining the tour = Sandbagger
Dale Earnhardt - ticketed several times for speeding before joining Nascar = Sandbagger
Frank Sinatra - recorded singing in the shower at age 13 = Sandbagger
I mean seriously, the thought of these guys practicing before the became stars really ruins my opinion of them. I mean they may be good, but are we really surprised how good they are considering what we know now??
lets see...
1. Michael Jordan spent all that time shooting jump shots before he competed??? He never once played in a match until the NBA? I dont believe he waited until he had the skills of an allstar before competing.
2. Tiger woods. Are you really trying to throw in a golfer?? LOL. You think he waited until he was one of the top 3 golfers before he competed?
3. Dale Earnhardt... yeah he didnt race anything at all before going to nascar... :lmao: He waited until he knew he could run in the top 3 and THEN he went and raced.
4. Frank Sinatra. He didnt wait until he was the best singer to start recording. someone saw talent and had him record.
and really I would have used more "grass roots" examples... as the top 3 obsiously had SOME experience in competition before they landed in the NBA/PGA/Nascar.
Yes Red... people practice. and yes they practice before they compete. to hold out until you are sure you can win... as speedy said, its about intent.
I asked the question earlier... I'll ask again. Are you going to bump to expert this year? Or are you shooting for AM championships?
and finally why are you so intent on impressing me??? :biggrin: really, I'm not that important.
yeah I know... smitesmitesmite... DONT DRINK THE KOOL-AID!!!! :ahhh:
Quote from: Firecat on July 20, 2007, 04:08:28 PM
I don't recall any of the finishers listed coming on here and boasting about how fast they are. I also think you are jumping to a SERIOUS conclusion when you assume all those people listed in the first page have been riding trackdays for "years"
Wow. Let me slow things down for you. I assumed nothing. The conversation is about people doing track days for years, and then showing up to race. I know nothing about the people on the first page, and have never assumed that I did. If you look at my first post, you'll see that I address that fact right off the bat.
Quote from: Firecat on July 20, 2007, 04:08:28 PM
I think that this statement is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. When I started riding on the track..my form was horrible...I knew nothing about race lines and was lost and honestly was a danger to those around me because of my lack of knowledge. Through coaching I was able to learn the proper race line, how to properly get off my bike and how to actually ride the track.
Not with that said...I probably could have dropped laptimes much quicker while racing...but for me, eventually I would have hit a wall because there were so many other things that would have been wrong with my riding. I may have improved more slowly doing trackdays but my improvement while riding trackdays has been in the areas where I will truly recognize faster times when the time comes to race...and what I have learned will keep me safer when racing.
What I meant by that statement was apparently misunderstood. I'll take at least half the credit for it, b/c I wasn't totally clear. First, everyone must have some sort of training to get on the racetrack. I do not think learning curves is sufficient for the first time track rider, but I also haven't been through it. I think people should take some sort of race school for their first time on the track. Cornerspeed, Schwantz, Pridmore, Bargy, Kinsey; you get the point. After that level of instruction, many people would be ok to grid up. Those that aren't ready can do some track days until they put into practice the things that they learned.
Part of the problem, in my opinion, with SOME of the track day organizations is that anyone can get out on the track and without proper instruction can reinforce bad habits. In my personal experience, I have not seen proper instruction from the "trackday" providers that I have ridden with. Under the assumption that someone has had this instruction, and has decent technique, then they will drop laptimes faster by racing. Therefore, once you get a foundation, trying to get fast by continuing to do trackdays is not as productive as racing. That's what I meant by my previous comment.
Quote from: Firecat on July 20, 2007, 04:08:28 PM
I didn't ask if you would be comfortable....I asked "Who would you RATHER...."
Do I need to type more slowly? I thought my ENTIRE explanation of this thought would have been sufficient. Given two riders, one of each situation that you describe, rider A will be our rider who is at the track for the first time. Rider B will be the track day rider who has never raced. I have never seen rider A in the main group going into turn 1. I have seen rider B in the main group going into turn 1. I would have about the same comfort level with either of them, b/c I wouldn't trust either to be predictable and not freak out a little with the close racing. Therefore, I would rather have rider A on the track b/c he won't be where I am in turn 1. I know that's not the simple answer, but maybe you get the point.
Quote from: r1owner on July 20, 2007, 04:29:43 PM
Come on Speedy, it's OK, you can out yourself...
Hi, My name is Speedballer and i'm a...
sandbagger :lmao:
Thanks tstruyk, I thought I was going to have to jump on that one too.
As one last little point to that:
Red, the analogies you used would be like someone doing trackdays until they were faster than Matt Mladin, and then just joining the AMA. Not quite what we're talking about, but thanks for playing.
Quote from: rogers1323 on July 20, 2007, 05:07:34 PM
Wow. Let me slow things down for you. I assumed nothing. The conversation is about people doing track days for years, and then showing up to race. I know nothing about the people on the first page, and have never assumed that I did. If you look at my first post, you'll see that I address that fact right off the bat.
I have seen several assumptions laced throughout your posts. I confront you on a something specific you have posted and you generalize....PLEASE pick what you would like to do...either be specific and consistent throughout all your posts or generalize and make assumptions like you have in others....please don't try to have your cake and eat it too.
The simple fact is this....Some people do many trackdays before they decide to race, and some decide to get out and learn as they race. Who here should be able to judge one way better than the other?
and before certain people jump on here and CLAIM they haven't made judgements....please reread your posts WITH AN OPEN MIND.
Swing and a miss.
I make assumptions like everyone does. I will not say that I have made no assumptions anywhere in this thread. However, in the context of the point that you are trying to make, I have assumed nothing. While the people listed on page one didn't come on here, someone did come on here making a big deal out of them. That discussion came from other arguments that the same person was involved in. He was simply (in my opinion) trying to stir up past arguments.
The conversation has centered around if it is suprising and a huge deal if people who put in years of trackdays and hundreds if not thousands of track miles come out of the box and finish well as amateurs. I have made comments in that general context. I know nothing about the names mentioned, and have never claimed to.
You can't ASSUME that because I use the word "years" that I'm applying it to the names from the first page. Those specific names quickly and quietly drifted from the center of conversation long ago.
Quote from: Firecat on July 20, 2007, 05:38:50 PM
The simple fact is this....Some people do many trackdays before they decide to race, and some decide to get out and learn as they race. Who here should be able to judge one way better than the other?
I'm not sure if anyone has claimed one better than another. Everyone has said that we're not surprised or all that impressed if someone with tons of track experience gets out and does well in their first race weekend. I have my opinion which is the most efficient procedure (which I explained a moment ago), but I'm still not sure that I said one was better than another.
Quote from: Firecat on July 20, 2007, 05:38:50 PM
and before certain people jump on here and CLAIM they haven't made judgements....please reread your posts WITH AN OPEN MIND.
I said nothing about judgements. I'm sure I've judged a lot of things. (I really don't feel like rereading 9 pages of crap to argue with you) You are claiming that I made assumptions, and in one specific situation, and I disagree.
Why can't we all just get along. :thumb: :cheers: :kissy:
Do a thousand trackday miles.
Hit every track that is in your region, at least 30 times.
Do not get your race license until your lap-times are top-3 expert.
Enter and win your first race amatuer race.
I will give your deserved dove-clap when you are picking up your amatuer trophies at the end of the event :thumb:
Quote from: Speedballer347 on July 20, 2007, 07:00:34 PM
I will give your deserved dove-clap when you are picking up your amatuer trophies at the end of the event :thumb:
Really..... So what kind of clap do i get for the results at MAM, HPT, and Gateway? I never turned a lap on those tracks before i was there to race....
Quote from: red900 on July 20, 2007, 07:24:52 PM
Really..... So what kind of clap do i get for the results at MAM, HPT, and Gateway? I never turned a lap on those tracks before i was there to race....
Who is talking about you?
Quote from: tstruyk on July 20, 2007, 04:52:24 PM
lets see...
1. Michael Jordan spent all that time shooting jump shots before he competed??? He never once played in a match until the NBA? I dont believe he waited until he had the skills of an allstar before competing.
2. Tiger woods. Are you really trying to throw in a golfer?? LOL. You think he waited until he was one of the top 3 golfers before he competed?
3. Dale Earnhardt... yeah he didnt race anything at all before going to nascar... :lmao: He waited until he knew he could run in the top 3 and THEN he went and raced.
4. Frank Sinatra. He didnt wait until he was the best singer to start recording. someone saw talent and had him record.
and really I would have used more "grass roots" examples... as the top 3 obsiously had SOME experience in competition before they landed in the NBA/PGA/Nascar.
Yes Red... people practice. and yes they practice before they compete. to hold out until you are sure you can win... as speedy said, its about intent.
I asked the question earlier... I'll ask again. Are you going to bump to expert this year? Or are you shooting for AM championships?
and finally why are you so intent on impressing me??? :biggrin: really, I'm not that important.
Really, those were all made up examples but with a point, which you missed.....
Many of todays best athletes practiced until they felt competent to compete at a high level. If you are not ready, why would you move up. I practiced and practiced and practiced before i felt as though I wanted to step up and compete. I have been rewarded for my dedication. Should I feel as though i deserve an amateur championship any less because I chosen to become proficient before hitting the grid? I don't think so. I HAVE NEVER, ever, raced before this season in my life. 4 years ago I was in the beginner group at TPM, what does that say?
Everyone here has the same options I have. Invest the time, heart, money, and energy to make yourself faster and push yourself. Get your ass out of bed at 5am and jog 25 miles a week. If you have the talent it will become apparent. I pushed myself for a couple years at trackdays and earned every bit of speed and skill I have. I am the one with the balls to throw that bike in the corner at that speed and I hope you do to. If you don't, either grow the balls or shut up. Dont whine or complain that someone has more time on the bike so therefore you are not impressed. The real truth to the matter is you have not had the balls to push yourself to the next level.
The fact of the matter is someone can spend a million hours at the track and never win an amatuer ccs race, or on the other hand someone could step up tomorrow off a dirtbike like henderson and smoke the class... The amount of tracktime is not the key to speed, it is the will and motivation the person driving...
Am i going expert? No I am not for several reasons. Does that dissapoint you or are you going to put up and race me? I am nobody special. Do me a favor, quit finding excuses and step up to the plate with me. I love and welcome the competition. I rolled up on my first grid and shit my pants like every other guy at his first race.... I forgot about my budget months ago like all the rest of you... My credit cards are maxed like all the rest of you.... I can lose the race just like all the rest of you....
I resent anyone who cannot look in the mirror and take responsibility for themselves and instead would rather point fingers with intent to hold someone else down. I have earned it, Marshall earned it, Curt earned it, Hix earned it, Runte is earning it, and all the others that I am forgetting..... We have all made the sacrifices, why shouldn't you have to?
I resent what you are inferring.
Quote from: red900 on July 20, 2007, 07:35:27 PM... Curt earned it...
Yeah, you are right, Curt DID earn it. Curt has all of my respect.
I have less track-miles than probably anyone on this board.
Am I fast? No.
Am I complaining about 'fast' guys? No.
Do I think it is amazing that a trackday whore wins amatuer stuff? No
Am I impressed with amatuer championships? Not really.
Am I impressed with amateur wins? Sometimes very much, depends on the rider.
Mike Chacherra said it best when he picked up his awards for 30 someodd amatuer championships in 2002...Championshiops are bought, Races are won.
Just this guys opinion. Sorry if I offend anyone.
I raced at the last GIR, just out of curiosity (no disrespect), I am curious of your bike and lap-times. I am not going to mess with you, I am honestly just curious.
Quote from: Speedballer347 on July 20, 2007, 07:51:20 PM
Yeah, you are right, Curt DID earn it. Curt has all of my respect.
You have just proven your ignorance. Curt had more race experience than anyone i listed... He is an ex-dirt champion.. All the others i listed had ZERO race experience.
yours truly,
The track day whore....
Quote from: Speedballer347 on July 20, 2007, 07:51:20 PM
I raced at the last GIR, just out of curiosity (no disrespect), I am curious of your bike and lap-times. I am not going to mess with you, I am honestly just curious.
Seriously, if you want them, go get em.... Track addix has them up somewhere. From what I can tell, you will make some BS excuses once you look em up anyways...
Quote from: red900 on July 20, 2007, 07:56:21 PM
yours truly,
The track day whore....
Dude, why are you taking this stuff personally?
None of my comments are directed at you, I don't even know you.
Ease up brother, this is just a discussion...personal opinions...no one is personally attacking anyone. It's just generalizations.
Quote from: red900 on July 20, 2007, 07:59:39 PM
Seriously, if you want them, go get em.... Track addix has them up somewhere. From what I can tell, you will make some BS excuses once you look em up anyways...
Name/number?
I'm not going to personally say anything about your times. I am just curious, that's all.
Quote from: Speedballer347 on July 20, 2007, 08:01:10 PM
Dude, why are you taking this stuff personally?
None of my comments are directed at you, I don't even know you.
Ease up brother, this is just a discussion...personal opinions...no one is personally attacking anyone. It's just generalizations.
Are you saying your "track day whore" comment was not meant as and insult or derogatory? Was it a compliment?
Quote from: red900 on July 20, 2007, 08:12:32 PM
Are you saying your "track day whore" comment was not meant as and insult or derogatory? Was it a compliment?
Wasn't directed at you personally....was a generalization, what my opinion is on the discussion at hand.
Like I said, I don't have any idea who you are, what your finishes are, etc.
Every post I have made (and I think most everyone on here) is just opinions/feelings in regard to this issue.
There are a lot of differing opinions about this, I am just expressing mine. This is all subjective stuff....no one is 'right' or 'wrong' .... just different.
Like I said, nothing I wrote was directed towards you personally... that's the honest truth
Quote from: Speedballer347 on July 20, 2007, 08:16:04 PM
Wasn't directed at you personally....was a generalization, what my opinion is on the discussion at hand.
Like I said, nothing I wrote was directed towards you personally... that's the honest truth
Ok, got it. Not directed at me... Answer the question. Was it meant as derogatory or as a compliment?
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg528.imageshack.us%2Fimg528%2F2783%2F184sc9.jpg&hash=a5099adba01a4671437375d4b334b3c54960dc87) (http://imageshack.us)
Quote from: EM JAY on July 20, 2007, 08:25:46 PM
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg528.imageshack.us%2Fimg528%2F2783%2F184sc9.jpg&hash=a5099adba01a4671437375d4b334b3c54960dc87) (http://imageshack.us)
Yeah, you are right. It's getting out of hand, and I am not helping matters :kicknuts:
Thanks for the dose of reality :biggrin:
900, yes it was deragatory.
I am bowing out. If I personally offended anyone, I am sorry.
Seeing that I don't want to read this whole damn post, does NESBA have list of "their" Track Day guys that placed poorly? I know some personally. I also know one that blew his transmission and couldn't race.
How about other TD riders from other organizations? How did they do?
All boils down to...WHO GIVES A FLYING FUCK!!
Continue with your regularly scheduled BS. :kicknuts:
I can't believe anyone could read the whole thing. My guess is that this one's dead anyway.
In the words of Monty Python, "It used to be funny, now it's just silly"
New topic.
Has there been any BatBoy sightings lately? Or does the FBI still have him?
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Quote from: Speedballer347 on July 20, 2007, 07:51:20 PM
I have less track-miles than probably anyone on this board.
Am I fast? No.
Am I complaining about 'fast' guys? No.
Do I think it is amazing that a trackday whore wins amatuer stuff? No
Am I impressed with amatuer championships? Not really.
Am I impressed with amateur wins? Sometimes very much, depends on the rider.
I have come to the conclusion that you are a smug unhappy little man who has a serious inferiority complex. Your track whore comment clearly illustrates this.
I am bewildered at why you would spend the time to post what impresses you and what does not.... You post over and over and over about what impresses you when in reality...who cares what impresses you?
My only hope is that your opinions aren't indicative of how the CCS community as a whole thinks.
Quote from: Speedballer347 on July 20, 2007, 08:01:10 PM
no one is personally attacking anyone. It's just generalizations.
You seriously have to be joking....or you are a joke....one of the two is applicable. I have a hunch its the latter
Quote from: Firecat on July 21, 2007, 12:18:26 AM
I have come to the conclusion that you are a smug unhappy little man who has a serious inferiority complex.
:thumb:
I think it's time for more Sven and Ole....
Four guys from Lake Aasgaard went up to Northern Wisconsin fishing. To save a little money, they rented a small cabin that had only two bedrooms. Well, Arne sleeps with Ole the first night and he came to breakfast next morning with his hair a mess, and his eyes all bloodshot.
They all said, "Vat happen to you?"
Arne says, "That Ole, he snores so loud, I was kept avake vatching him all night.
I can't do that 'nother night so vun of you's got to do it"
Since Ole snores so loudly, no one else wanted to room with him, but they finally agree to take turns. The next night is Oscar's turn. In the morning, same thing - hair all standing up, eyes all blood shot. Oscar declares, "Fer sure, dat Ole shakes the roof. And he sleeps so hard, I couldn't vake him. I vatched him all night."
The third night was Sven's turn. Next morning Sven come to breakfast bright eyed and bushy tailed. "
They can't believe it! They say, "Vat happened?"
Sven say, "Well, ve get ready for bed. I go und tuck Ole into bed and kiss him good night. Den he vatches me all night long."
Sven and Ole are visiting a relative in Texas. Walking along the street, they see a sign on a store front which reads:
* Suits $5.00 each
* Shirts $2.00 each
* Trousers $2.50 per pair.
Sven says to his pal, "Hey Ole! LOOK! We could buy a whole lot of dem, and ven ve get back to Wisconsin, ve could make a fortune. Now ven ve go into the shop, you be quiet, okay? Yust let me do all da talkin' cause if dey hear our Wisconsin accent dey might tink ve are dumb Norwegians and try to raise da price. But, I can speak with a perfect Texas drawl."
They go in and Sven drawls out an order for 50 suits at $5.00 each, 100 shirts at $2.00 each and 50 pairs of trousers at $2.50 each.
The owner of the shop says, "You're Norwegians from Wisconsin, aren't you?"
"Uff da!" says a surprised Sven. "How'd you know dat?"
The owner says, "Cause this is a dry-cleaners."
I can maybe offer some personal insight here. I raced hard for a number of years, ran out of money and then started coaching trackdays. At Road America this month I raced again after a few years off from competition.
The difference in mindset between racing and trackdays is, "I'm going to ride really fast," and "I'm going to ride as fast as I possibly can." I'd forgotten this, and while the difference may only be 2 seconds per lap, the concentration and risk are immensely greater when you ride in competition. Technically, I ride better now than I did during my competition years, but mentally, I don't have the killer edge I used to have. It would take several weekends of serious racing to get that back. Don't think I'm not tempted....
The thing is, you'd have to be out of your mind to ride at the absolute edge as a trackday rider. Why would that be worth the risk? Besides, how many trackday riders do you see destroying a set of tires in each 20-minute session?
Racing is damn sure different. Yes, it's good to learn the basics of high-performance riding at trackdays, where the cost and risk of figuring out what you're doing is considerably smaller. When I started racing, there were no trackdays. I was a serious hazard to the experts in the combined Am-Ex practice sessions, as well as on the final lap of every combined race when the lead experts caught me as they tried to resolve who was going to win their battle. It took me a year to get fast enough to finish a GT race without being lapped. Had I done a season of trackdays first, I'd have been faster and more predictable, making me a safer competitor. But I still would have had to learn racecraft in order to dice it up with my fellow racers. You either follow the rules of passing etiquette or get thrown out at a trackday, no matter how fast you are. This is something I now struggle with when I choose to race, and it would be no different for any trackday rider new to racing.
Someone had made the comment that he hadn't seen much real instruction at trackdays. I can't speak for other orgs, but as lead instructor for Sportbike Track Time's novice program, I can assure you that we teach PLENTY of skill related material in a very intense series of classrooms and drills, and once a novice has moved on to the faster groups he or she can still get one-on-one help at any time, from any coach.
Personally, I can't see what there is to debate. Trackdays have drawn countless people into this sport who never would have considered racing and would have otherwise stayed home. Some of these people do eventually race, making the sport stronger and the grids bigger. Even those trackday riders who never race still contribute to racing by buying and using the same parts racers need, thus making the aftermarket stronger and lowering the amortised cost of R&D by spreading it over a larger market. That means cheaper, better parts and motorcycles for everyone!
If you're a racer, try to find it in your heart not to bash trackday riders. They either dream of becoming like you, or someday WILL become like you. In any case, they love the same thing you love; going fast around a racetrack. If you must hate, wouldn't your energy be better spent dissing helmetless squids acting like assholes in traffic or the straight-pipe Harley crowd that wakes you up at 4AM on their way home from the bars?
Hey, I'm just throwing my opinion out here, and I sure don't intend to spend any time debating those who disagree with me....
Well said Chris.
Now can we just let this thread die?
Burt, I can appreciate your attempts to put out the fire. You have done a pretty good job.
The fact is this did get personal, because I am one of the "Track day whores" that is so unimpressive. I have, as stated earlier. trained the past 4 years essentially to find myself at a point in which I felt worthy of racing. My intention was never to become a racer, as I believe the majority of the best athletes plans were not to be at the level they found themselves. I believe the vast majority started out as I, practicing as a hobby, with the passion to get better. Little did they, or I know that I might actually be good at this. So with continued hard work and dedication we all worked harder to one day find ourselves in a position to be ridiculed by the jealous for our talents. The main point is if you do what you always did, you will get what you always got. Don't look out the window for answers, look in the mirror.
As a control rider, that does not get any money for my donations, I will state a couple of truth's.
Whether you do track days or racing, whether you run Nascar, play basketball, golf, or sing in the shower you will not get better without practice. It is your choice if you want to practice in a race or at a trackday. Practice at a race and you will have to be willing have alot of low finishes in your quest to win. The growth is the same either road you take. On the other hand, you can do trackdays and instead of alot of low place finishes, you will place dead last at every trackday. You will go through the same growing pains, crashes, revelations, and breakthroughs to achieve the same goal. The environment will be the different. There will be people there interested in helping you get better where in a race most are focused on the race rather than your personal growth. Even as a control rider, when I am in a race I see nothing but my own task ahead. I take zero time to critique a slower rider in an effort to help them grow. At a track day, you have about 20 control riders full attention and dedication to help you grow. I know, I am one of them.
In racing you will have to be able to deal with an inferiority complex for the years until you have earned the ability to finish at the top. Hopefully, instead of jealousy, you will look deeper and realize that the people you are jealous of are no different that you,except they have just gained the knowledge and experience that you have not. Your next question should be how do I get that good? It should be a never ending cycle. Did I look at Ben Thompson or Andy Fohyerstaller this last weekend in jealousy, for a moment, but I realized that I am better served to go up and pick their brains and try to unlock the secrets. And finally, just push myself to put up or shut up. Push myself to the edge once again. What am I willing to risk to ride at that level?
It takes no less effort to win a race no matter where you trained and deserves no less appreciation. If you win, you won. If you step out on the field and beat me, you have my respect. Now, show me how you did it. Tell me what it takes to get there. :cheers:
Dustin Boyd
NESBA MW Control rider
CCS #950 am
and a helluva nice guy if you wanna talk...
Quote from: red900 on July 21, 2007, 03:37:19 AM
Dustin Boyd
CCS #950 am
Ah haaaa.....I was wondering who the novice guy was that was rolling with us at the very front of the expert pack in GTO.
You sat behind me and Mark Nudleman the whole race. I crashed out of the lead on the last lap in T7, Mark got 1st Ex....you won amatuer.
Nice racing! You were smoking fast, couldn't believe there was an amatuer sitting right behind us.
I don't know ya, but you are indeed fast, and very fast for an am :thumb:
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Yep, I knew who you were. I was there when you crashed too.....
I know Nude also. He and I have had some great conversations and some great racing. Although I am very respectful of the fact that he and I are not truly racing each other and I will never get in the middle of a heated expert battle. But, with that being said I do enjoy dicing it up if there is nobody else around.
So, know that you know who I am do you feel any different? The fact that I ran 7 races that sunday at gateway, the fact I had 6 inches of standing water when I was changing to rain tires on pit lane, the fact that I crashed my 600 bending the radiator and skipping lunch to fix it, the fact that I work just as hard or harder than everyone out there to achieve my goals.
Have I earned any respect or am I just some sandbagging trackday whore who deserves nothing more that a mere golf clap? :rollseyes:
I do think some here are very paranoid. I'm not personally attacking anyone.
But I also think it's retarded to say "these are OUR TD riders and look how good they are." I know Joel. He's very fast for an AM. But he's also done over 12 TD so far this year with various organizations. God Almighty!! He better be fast with that much track time!! I don't care what organization he runs with!!
Quote from: xb9racer on July 21, 2007, 05:23:55 AM
I do think some here are very paranoid. I'm not personally attacking anyone.
But I also think it's retarded to say "these are OUR TD riders and look how good they are." I know Joel. He's very fast for an AM. But he's also done over 12 TD so far this year with various organizations. God Almighty!! He better be fast with that much track time!! I don't care what organization he runs with!!
Stop thinking that way.
TRACKTIME DOES NOT EQUAL FAST!!!!!
Fast is what is in you. It is Will, Drive, Determination, Sacrifice, Energy, Failure, Listening, Learning, Pushing, Falling, etc etc etc etc
Do you get it, just because a person does 12 TD's does not mean he is fast, nor does it mean he is ready to race.
Is it that hard to grasp?
Quote from: Firecat on July 21, 2007, 12:18:26 AM
I have come to the conclusion that you are a smug unhappy little man who has a serious inferiority complex. Your track whore comment clearly illustrates this.
I am bewildered at why you would spend the time to post what impresses you and what does not.... You post over and over and over about what impresses you when in reality...who cares what impresses you?
My only hope is that your opinions aren't indicative of how the CCS community as a whole thinks.
Honestly, I hope that he's fully able to make his points as he wishes. As for him being a smug unhappy little man...I'm not sure what kind of personal point you're trying to make, the times I have met him, he hasn't been any of them. Good luck with that.
As for the CCS community...
He can say what he wants. Communities are made up of individuals that are capable of making up their own opinions. This is certainly the same as other communities like WERA, STT, AFM, AHRMA, and so on that actually have different opinions than other people in the community.
Quote from: red900 on July 21, 2007, 03:37:19 AM
In racing you will have to be able to deal with an inferiority complex for the years until you have earned the ability to finish at the top.
Nice post, Dustin.
However, for some champions, the inferiority complex never goes away. The drive to continually strive to be better and better and better and better is part of the cycle that racers at the upper levels have which is pretty much a disorder. Is it always healthy? No.
Quote from: red900 on July 21, 2007, 03:37:19 AM
In racing you will have to be able to deal with an inferiority complex for the years until you have earned the ability to finish at the top. Hopefully, instead of jealousy, you will look deeper and realize that the people you are jealous of are no different that you,except they have just gained the knowledge and experience that you have not. Your next question should be how do I get that good? It should be a never ending cycle. Did I look at Ben Thompson or Andy Fohyerstaller this last weekend in jealousy, for a moment, but I realized that I am better served to go up and pick their brains and try to unlock the secrets. And finally, just push myself to put up or shut up. Push myself to the edge once again. What am I willing to risk to ride at that level?
Dave, your post seems awfully similar to what I wrote.
Strive to get better, never ending cycle, gaining knowledge and experience, how do I get that good, push myself further...... Did my post not cover it?
Well, I'm glad this thread has a made a little bit of a turn for the better, and while I try so hard not to, I can't help but to put my 2 cents in.
Dustin... you are kicking butt this year!! Are you an expert rider? yes, but an expert racer? NO. Also, even if Garth was trying to 'bring up old arguements', or whatever.... He is a director of an orginazation that MANY people on here were bashing HARD, not very long ago. So what if he wants to show you how well some of his riders did. And so what if its to prove a point. Maybe its a point that some of you don't really care about, but its important to him and everybody who's name he posted in the first post, even if they didn't happen onto this thread to post on it. These ARE the people that everyone was talking shit about a couple of weeks ago. (Maybe not directly, but as a group.)
I know that one of my MAIN concerns about going racing is the fact that it is very possible that there are going to be a few people on the grid that HAVEN'T done any track days, and in turn I'm going to end up getting taken out. It truly amazes me some of the advice that SOME of you give new riders, ie 'just do the learning curves and start racing'. Like you don't understand that these are going to be the same people gridded up next to you. (I have seen the threads) I understand that there is a good chance that you will just get away from them at the start, but still... there's plenty of oppertunities for something to happen.
I did my first races at the end of the season last year. (at the end of my 1st season) I was pretty disappointed with my results... even though I was running good times, didnt get lapped, and the fact that it was a very competitive weekend. I don't care to place last in a race, or 2nd to last, or whatever, so I decided to get a little bit more 'training and practice' before I try again. Now, I have a little bit over a year's experience, have gotten a lot of good help and advice from friends (nesba folk), and completed an awesome riding school (Freddie Spencer), and feel that I could actually be competitive in a race. I planned to race at RA, but unfortunately buggered up my knee in a lowside at the NESBA day, but plan to get out and race as soon as the finances allow. I'm feeling pretty good about it, and think I'll be very competitive and finish well.... now that I have some good practice. Honestly, the only people I'm REALLY worried about are my fellow NESBA riders :thumb:
TRACKTIME DOES NOT EQUAL FAST!!!!!
Really!!?? What's that old saying oh yeah Practice makes perfect.
Sorry dude, but you're dead fucking wrong. So wrong it's to the point of stupid.
Yes, will and drive and skill are major factors. But along with that goes, knowing the tracks. Knowing your limits, knowing your bikes limits, knowing where to push and where not to. The list goes on and on. Can you honestly tell me that track days do NOT help a rider/racer? If so, what the hell is the point of this entire thread. Seems to me some people are equating NESBA with doing well at races. :blahblah:
Quote from: Super Dave on July 21, 2007, 09:10:12 AM
As for the CCS community...
He can say what he wants. Communities are made up of individuals that are capable of making up their own opinions. This is certainly the same as other communities like WERA, STT, AFM, AHRMA, and so on that actually have different opinions than other people in the community.
Dave,
Anyone can say what they want...its America after all. I think you missed what I was trying to say.....which was
"I hope that the majority of the CCS community doesn't have the same opinions about trackday riders turned racers"
You are right...eveyone is entitled to their opinion...he stated his and I stated mine. It seems like this has kind of cooled down now, which is good. I hope that everyone took away at least a look and feel for the other sides perspective
I agree with Dustin (to a point) that track time does not necessarily mean fast. It is as he says. You have to decide if you can go that fast through the corner. If you don't have the will, no matter how much track time you have, you aren't going to go any faster.
But, assuming two riders have the same will and determination, then I do believe that more track time will make you faster.
No matter what though, up to a point more track time will make you come up to speed quicker. I don't understand how it can take 4 years to decide you want to race, but everyone is different. In my case, as soon as I took Ed Bargy (never been on a track before that), I couldn't wait to get on the track and race!
Quote from: xb9racer on July 21, 2007, 10:16:21 AM
TRACKTIME DOES NOT EQUAL FAST!!!!!
Really!!?? What's that old saying oh yeah Practice makes perfect.
Sorry dude, but you're dead fucking wrong. So wrong it's to the point of stupid.
Y :blahblah:
Ok, so now im stupid....Considering the fact that I supposedly have more track time than almost everyone on the track. Considering the fact the I am actually a control rider whom works with people at track days every other weekend. Considering I am a rider whom has moved from trackday to racing after 4 years. I can see how you think your perspective must carry some weight to the point that you are right and i am stupid...
I have not coached hundreds of people on the race track. I have not seen countless people choose to never grow beyond the beginner group, years at the same level and happy with that being the limit of their comfort zone...
Ya, im stupid...
I got into racing ONLY because i did trackdays. 2 years ago, if you had told me I would ever race a motorcycle, I would have laughed in your face, and said that you were crazy. I did my first trackday because I thought it would be fun, and I wanted to improve me STREET riding skills. I figured i could push the limits on the track, and it would give me a greater safety margin for riding fast in the twistys on the street. It wasn't until the next year, when i got a pretty good deal on a bike that had been raced, and had both street and race plastics that the thought ever even crossed my mind to grid up for a race. Then I did a couple more trackdays because I wanted to at least be semi competitive before spending a bunch of money to finish dead last. I think I have done a total of 6 or 7 trackdays. I am some where around middle of the pack for the AM, but hope to get better. I dropped nearly 2 seconds off my PB lap time at BFR in my first 4 laps of racing, then i promptly decided to take a dive into a wall and broke my collar bone. But I can say I am completely bitten by the racing, and the thought of doing trackdays bores me now. Sure, if i had unlimited funds i would do them just as practice, but my goal is to not run up any debt in this expensive hobby, so I haven't done any.
I don't think this thread was ever started to say that trackday riders where better then racers or anything like that. Maybe G97 can clear it up (he never answered my question when i asked it earlier) but i suspect that he is trying to suggest the NESBA riders are better then other riders. I can't see any other reason why he would have posted up the things he has posted up. That idea is just plain odd though. Considering the number of members that NESBA has, and the number of dates they do, combined with the number of years that many of the riders have in the program, it would be more embarrassing if they DIDN'T have a few guys and gals that were winning and doing good every race weekend. I'm not trying to take anything away from anyone, just pointing out its a matter of numbers, not necessarily any great thing that NESBA provides. If you have several hundred riders, yeah there are going to be some damn good riders in that bunch.
So, G97, i am asking you, what was the purpose of putting this thread up?
Quote from: Helmsman on July 21, 2007, 12:05:41 PM
So, G97, i am asking you, what was the purpose of putting this thread up?
Your question is justified. Not to put words in G97's mouth, I would be willing to guess it has something to do with the thread that was about Road America track days. You would have to take a look back a couple weeks. it was a huge thread, and may answer your question.
Quote from: red900 on July 21, 2007, 12:13:56 PM
Your question is justified. Not to put words in G97's mouth, I would be willing to guess it has something to do with the thread that was about Road America track days. You would have to take a look back a couple weeks. it was a huge thread, and may answer your question.
I read parts of that thread. Most of the complaining seemed to be about it costing so much to do the trackday, and having to buy a membership even if people only wanted to do that one day. Not saying NESBA riders sucked or anything like that. (all though I will admit that i didn't read the entire thread, and certainly don't plan on doing so now.)
Dont judge the book by it's cover....
Quote from: Burt Munro on July 21, 2007, 12:57:20 AM
The owner of the shop says, "You're Norwegians from Wisconsin, aren't you?"
"Uff da!" says a surprised Sven. "How'd you know dat?"
The owner says, "Cause this is a dry-cleaners."
:lmao:
gonesbago!ducks!wabbits!honda!suzuki!Yamahahaha!
Quote from: 61Ex on July 21, 2007, 01:23:00 PM
:lmao:
Don't worry Todd, your helmet numbers will protect you from the craziness.....
gonesbago!ducks!wabbits!honda!suzuki!Yamahahaha!
Never said you're stupid. What is the point of your illustrious resume though?
What is the whole point of this thread other than NESBA trying to equate their TD riders as being superior to other racers?
With that I leave you all to this useless, waste of time thread.
Hey. Have fun whether it's TD's or racing....or both. Have fun and be safe.
:cheers:
Quote from: xb9racer on July 21, 2007, 08:14:06 PM
Never said you're stupid. What is the point of your illustrious resume though?
What is the whole point of this thread other than NESBA trying to equate their TD riders as being superior to other racers?
With that I leave you all to this useless, waste of time thread.
Hey. Have fun whether it's TD's or racing....or both. Have fun and be safe.
:cheers:
Since you are leaving, no more time needed answering your questions....
Dustin, Thank you for posting up all that you have. I have a lot more respect for you now.
I at one time, after I met you at MAM, had wondered why you were racing amateur when you clearly have the skills to be racing Expert and Eric helped me understand why you are in AM and so have you with a lot of your posts. Cheers to you for your perspective and I always have a great time following you for as long as I can.
Looking forward to seeing you get your white plate and running with others you can truley compete with so as to hopefully better your abilities.
If I can just start to learn how to develop a racer mentality and be more competitive rather than just going out there and riding pretty fast I may just be able to get back up to running in the top 5 steadily again.
kind of on a similar tangent: the racers now that are racing in the middle of this season are far faster than what I was racing against in the first part of the season. imo.
a lot of new names and faces and a lot of good skills popping up all over along with a Lot of the familiar names and faces getting even faster themselves.
This is proving to be a very fun hobby that I never thought I would be as good at as I feel I am doing regardless of points and standings.
but when it comes to trackday whores I guess I'm one of them too.. but only just got into Advanced group last year shortly after I was able to walk again and had the pin taken out of my left index finger I dismembered.
I learned fully what it means to slow down to go faster because I was out on the track while I was sill on disability and if ANYthing was to happen to me I'd lose my job, my parents would lose the house I bought them and I wouldn't be able to support them as I do.
Racing with all you trackwhores, as it's been said, is proving to be a much more safe racing experience for me since you know a tad more polite way or two on how to pass someone safely and are not out there with the cut-throat carelessness I have encountered here and there at times.
big props to that.
jim jr
You know, it just doesn't feel like an internet train wreck with twelve pages of useless arguing unless I'm in there somewhere ... so haters prepare your smite buttons!
A few observations from the king of train wrecks, and the consumate trackday whore, me.
1. Laps do not NECESSARILY equate to skills and speed. Yes, they can and do help tremendously in most cases, but they guarantee nothing. Similarly, those of you who think Control Riders/Track coaches have ten times the laps you do need to consider the fact that the majority of the time CR's spend on track is not at their pace. How much would you improve if you spent the majority of your track time at 20, 30, or 40 seconds off your pace? Truth be told, I can make a case for how CR'ing actually slows you down. When I CR, I usually don't get all my Advanced sessions, unlike a member who signs up and rides. While you go out on track, I do the beginner meeting, while most members take forty minutes to relax, rehydrate, refocuse, refuel, adjust settings, etc.. CR's roll around well off their pace trying to help people learn to go faster, safer, truthfully slowing their minds down and diluting their own sense of speed. Then we rush in for a splash of gas and water before running out to an Advanced session that's already underway. Tired, thirsty, and unfocused. I know, I know, you're crying a river for us. I'm not looking for sympathy, just trying to paint a more accurate picture of all that extra "seat time" CR's get.
2. One of the divisive issues in this thread centers around the classification "Amateur" I am of the opinion that more "'racers" should learn how to ride a motorcycle on a racetrack before they compete. Many on this forum are of the opposite opinion and feel anyone who learns how to ride at a competititve pace before racing is somehow cheating, or "sandbagging" Someone please tell me how Dustin, Ron, Me, or anyone else who comes from a non racing background, has never started a bike off the line under a green flag, has never raced in the rain, has never raced at all! Is not an "amateur" roadracer? This boggles my mind. Pace doesn't equal experience, although they often come together. If more people would hone their skills before racing, the races themselves would be safer and more competitive.
Who joins a team without knowing how to play the game? Who tries to win anything without first trying to get good at it first? Of course, there's always room for improvement, as evidenced by the fact Dustin, Ron, myself, and most every other "sandbagger" in this discussion dropped several seconds in their first season racing. A true sandbagger wouldn't improve racing amateurs. They would run their pace, take their wins, and keep sandbagging.
When I first started track riding, there was no doubt in my mind I would NEVER race a motorycle. Why would I? I'm too old, too slow, and didn't feel like I actually had a handle of what I was doing out there. The very term "racer" seemed worlds apart from what I was doing on a racetrack. Never say never ... But the implication that some track riders spend years preparing to steamroll an amateur championship is hilarious. The first time Dustin every asked me about racing was the end of last year!
3. I'm not Garth, so I won't speak for him, but I imagine he posted those results in response to the many posts and comments from people who seem to feel trackday riders are undeserving of the same respect racers have, simply because they choose not to race. I find it hilarious that on one hand trackday riders get not respect because they're not real racers, but when they come out to a race and do well it's only because they're on track all the time .... Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Hilarious, nonetheless.
Quote from: Sklossmonster on July 22, 2007, 12:01:36 PM
You know, it just doesn't feel like an internet train wreck with twelve pages of useless arguing unless I'm in there somewhere ...
Glad your here..... I am running out of intelligent things to say..
Marshall,
I do not know you & have never met you.
All I know of you, is that I have read your columns in RRW.
Everything I have ever heard about you was that you were a really nice guy and were a fast rider.
So I suspect you are a really nice guy and really fast :biggrin: I am just responing with my opinion, I am not trying to start a fight with you or create any kind of ill-will between us :cheers:
You keep qouting my "trackday whore" comment.
I have no issue with trackday riders, TD guys waiting to race, TD guys winning, etc.
What I am saying is the super-high-mileage TD guys and TD instructors have a definate advantage over the regular guys. Someone has a million TD miles and decide to race? Fine, but don't expect people to be suprised when they win....because they have had far more time to practice for the exam.
As far as what you are saying now, in this post.....
I can see both sides, yours and mine. But I am more swayed by my end, hence my stance.
Although you defend that bringing tons of TD miles to the plate, shouldn't mean anything in amateur competition.....it was you who made more than one reference to Curt henderson being a previous 'racer', and also made a seemingly negative comment about a racer who had years of experience doing 'starts' in the AMA and somehow was able to get a CCS amateur license.
I suspect you felt like Curt was kind of a cherry-picker to some extenct, that's the impression I got from your readings anyway. Well, that is exactly how some people feel about multi-year trackday guys coming in and crushing.
Marshall, I am not discrediting you or anyone else. Congratulations on all of your finishes. You earned them. You are fast, you are surely faster than me.
I consider you to be a very talented and fast racer, but the word 'amateur' does not come to mind when I think of you.
Please try to understand where the other side of the table is coming from. Think back to what you thought about Curt, to what you though about that ex-AMA guy when he was smoking everyone on the starts....
This is a very polarizing thread, with no true 'right' or 'wrongs'. No one is ever going to agree on it.
I just hope people quit taking this shit personal. It's just internet (ie; bored) yappings :blahblah:
Couldn't let you have all the fun, Dustin!
Seriously though, Speedballer, I get what you're saying, I really do. And to be honest, I never felt like Curt was cherry-picking. I watched him suddenly "get it" one day at MAM and make the transition from dirt tracker to roadracer. It was a beautiful thing. It made us both faster, better riders. I doubt I would've developed my riding the way I did without Curt there to make me step it up. And although one could certainly make a case that he was no "amateur" racer, the fact is his first roadrace in his life was the Daytona round last Spring. So even though he's been racing something or other most of his life, he was still an amateur to roadracing.
To me, cherry pickers and sandbaggers are guys who year after year, carefully watch their points totals so they can keep their yellow plates and win contingency dollars unfairly. Or when a two time World Superbike Champion rolls into Daytona for a money race, whether it's wrong or right is a different issue, but to me that's "cherry picking"
Anyway, I don't think any of the people in this discussion are really sandbagging or cherry picking, they may have more practice on a racetrack than some of their competitors, but they have less time under a green flag, so it is what it is.
I actually never intended to race amateur CCS for any length of time. I knew it was too dangerous for my taste, and was planning on doing a couple of weekends and then petitioning to go expert. I soon found out, however, that no matter what pace I may have had at a track day, I was no expert racer. My first several races were a complete disaster. Why? No experience in the environment. I could run fifteens at Blackhawk, but I couldn't get my bike off the starting line, and I couldn't pass to save my life! Hell, I couldn't even complete my first ever race lap without crashing myself into the hospital. And not because I didn't have plenty of laps under my belt, but because I had never been in a race of any kind in my life, and I was overwhelmed by the environment. Thus, my amateur status seemed perfectly appropriate and I decided to do a full amateur season instead of petitioning for the bump I obviously didn't deserve.
I agree people with more practice time have the opportunity to perform better, but it really doesn't guarantee anything, especially not results in a motorcycle race. I've seen people with tons of laps and practice time totally freak out when the green flag drops. They actually go slower in the race than they do in practice, because it's so different and intense. Well, maybe racing isn't for them, regardless of how much practice time they have.
I would sincerely like to see more amateur racers doing trackdays and Friday practices to develop their skills. I'd also like to see the more aggressive trackday riders "sack up" and go racing, where (in my opinion) that type of aggression belongs. To me, there's no reason why racers and trackriders can't coexist in a mutually beneficial relationship, where racers get practice at trackdays, and track riders who want more aggressive passing and competition can explore their skills in an agreed upon environment. It would be better for everyone.
Quote from: backMARKr on July 21, 2007, 05:00:37 PM
Yes sir, yes sir, those are some super protection #s the Storck is sellin out there. You gotta Kryptonite like competitor? Throw some of his #s on your lid and feel at ease whether your blazin through T2 @BFR screamin in your head at all those trees on rider's right or watchin da sklossmonster disappear in the mirrors trollin down 39 for staties that wanna try and run with you, or draggin a Samps down E. Wash. :biggrin:
Mark's #s rock whether your NESBA, CCS, WERA, CMRA, AMA, NHL, NBA, CSS, USGPRU, MOTO ST, WSMC, AFM, AHRMA, Grand Am, MRA, WMRRA, OMRRA, MARRC, or just a gawdanged CW!! gostorckgo!
Why is this getting beat to death?
Two things make people fast; talent and track time.
Enough of either will win races, to really succeed you need a lot of both.
Dustin, you're fast as hell. I've got mad respect for you as a rider, you passed me from the amateur wave at MAM while I was running top five expert, and you're quite a bit faster than me at blackhawk, probably other tracks as well. So I'll take nothing away from you as a rider.
You've clearly made the right decisions in your riding career to begin racing at a very high level and I'm happy for you. Amateur wins and championships are nice, but you're coming across like you've just won a world championship.
Am I impressed? Hell yeah! Anyone who can do 11s at BHF has my attention, whether you've been riding for ten months or ten years. You're welcome to pat yourself on the back, since you are ulitmately the one riding the bike. But I really hope you appreciate that NESBA has surrounded you with guys who have "been there". I would have killed for that when I was starting out.
Quote from: JBraun on July 22, 2007, 04:00:51 PM
Why is this getting beat to death?
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg527.imageshack.us%2Fimg527%2F9061%2F1072ll4.gif&hash=88be2ee28b1fde38c377d943f4c054323ad8d065) (http://imageshack.us)
Quote from: JBraun on July 22, 2007, 04:00:51 PM
but you're coming across like you've just won a world championship.
Dear baby Jesus, please forgive me for the thoughts that are going through my mind.....
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE FREAKING KIDDING!!!! I have done nothing to come across as if I have one a world championship.. I have done nothing except defend myself from the very beginning of this thread. I have done nothing but try to explain to the people that believe they have some right to reduce the wins of myself and some others to nothing except pure track time...
Please explain yourself.
Quote from: 61Ex on July 22, 2007, 03:04:00 PM
Yes sir, yes sir, those are some super protection #s the Storck is sellin out there. You gotta Kryptonite like competitor? Throw some of his #s on your lid and feel at ease whether your blazin through T2 @BFR screamin in your head at all those trees on rider's right or watchin da sklossmonster disappear in the mirrors trollin down 39 for staties that wanna try and run with you, or draggin a Samps down E. Wash. :biggrin:
Mark's #s rock whether your NESBA, CCS, WERA, CMRA, AMA, NHL, NBA, CSS, USGPRU, MOTO ST, WSMC, AFM, AHRMA, Grand Am, MRA, WMRRA, OMRRA, MARRC, or just a gawdanged CW!! gostorckgo!
Todd....when you buy your next helmet or bodywork ---let me know :thumb:
I'll hook you up....
Quote from: red900 on July 22, 2007, 04:22:25 PM
Dear baby Jesus, please forgive me for the thoughts that are going through my mind....
Nice Ricky Bobby reference....I applaud you!!
Official TIME OUT for the GP race....... ITs on Fox!!!
Quote from: Headdog122 on July 20, 2007, 03:20:07 PM
Clark..
Why you always got to disagree... You seem to always try and take oposition. Having said that, I would like to disclose my favorite Steve Clark QUOTE..!!
"See Jamie, your one of those guys that knows how to go fast and tell people, but can't go fast yourself!!" :kicknuts:
That one is classic...!! Thanks for the motivation..!! You should be a traveling motivational speaker, Tony Robbins watch out..!! :thumb:
he,he,he....
I just like busting your balls JRay!
I want the last 40 min. I just spent catching up on all this babble back :jerkoff:
I just wanna ride :cheers:
Quote from: Sklossmonster on July 22, 2007, 12:01:36 PM
Similarly, those of you who think Control Riders/Track coaches have ten times the laps you do need to consider the fact that the majority of the time CR's spend on track is not at their pace. How much would you improve if you spent the majority of your track time at 20, 30, or 40 seconds off your pace? Truth be told, I can make a case for how CR'ing actually slows you down. When I CR, I usually don't get all my Advanced sessions, unlike a member who signs up and rides. While you go out on track, I do the beginner meeting, while most members take forty minutes to relax, rehydrate, refocuse, refuel, adjust settings, etc.. CR's roll around well off their pace trying to help people learn to go faster, safer, truthfully slowing their minds down and diluting their own sense of speed. Then we rush in for a splash of gas and water before running out to an Advanced session that's already underway. Tired, thirsty, and unfocused. I know, I know, you're crying a river for us. I'm not looking for sympathy, just trying to paint a more accurate picture of all that extra "seat time" CR's get.
+1 That about covers it, except you didn't mention the deep sense of personal satisfaction that comes from introducing newcomers to the world of speed and concentration that can only be found on a racetrack.
Now, could someone tell me what this argument is actually about? Near as I can tell, it breaks down like this:
Trackday riders are pussys because they're not "Real" racers. Real racers race, but trackdays are "Play" racing.
Trackday riders are sandbagger pussys if they decide to stop playing and can beat "Real" racers.
Yoo peoples is quazy! No use argwooing wiph de insane!
Quote from: K3 Chris Onwiler on July 23, 2007, 08:23:15 AM
Yoo peoples is quazy! No use argwooing wiph de insane!
Chris...as I told Todd...
your helmet decals protect you from the crazy :thumb:....
please read
ALL the posts in this very important thread....
man you guys have been busy... I only waste time like this at work...
I'll make one more post on this and move on. (yeah right... ::))
I never had the intent of disrespecting TD riders, or TD riders turned racers. If I did, 2 things:
A. I'm sorry
B. You need thicker skin OR you are implying/inferring intent inaccurately, I can only assume due to the nature of the posts... people are proud (self included). I should have been more careful.
I had never had the intent of taking away from the performance of any racer regardless of seat time. fast is fast... period.
Track day riders are not pussies. This isnt about a coexistance with TD riders. I enjoy working with new TD riders and prospective racers. TDs clearly off a more open avenue to race which only helps supports our sport.
My intent, which I assumed was blatant, was that I am not as impressed with the "first year racing" or "first race ever" results when they are earned by racers with 4+ years track riding experience. I thought I mentioned this a ways back... The result of the race itself (ex. running 25's at RA and catching the lead experts) is impressive. Thats fast and a feat from the 2nd wave (or combined start from however deep the field was). Stop trying to make this a personal attack... its not.
Calling me out on my "balls"... well I too ran a full season my AM year. Half a season my 2nd year (as an expert) and unfortunately... blew my motor after the first round at Topeka this year. I'm more than likely done for the year, so I can be around next year. My credit cards arent maxed out, I am not broke due to racing. I race within my means to insure longevity. Its been absolute torture not being out there racing, and probably why I'm so crabby :biggrin: But to say I dont/wont grid up and race? Tell ya what Dustin... take 3 months off with no riding/racing due to circumstance beyond your control, and listen to someone question your balls.
While on the topic of balls... I would give my left nut (or right, I'm not particular to either one) to have been at GIR (home track) dicing it up with Speedballer. I struggled to find a good setup all last year, things are finally coming together, bike is just starting to work for me, and right as I am ready to go fast... now I cant race. I was at RA the last 2 years. The first year in 32 degree weather, 150 down the main straight my first race weekned... in snow. My first time on a grid was in the Team Challange... I was the only yellow plate (to my knowledge) on the grid. The next year? tortured by rain and a new bike with zero setup time. You think I wouldnt give anything to race at RA in JULY?!?!?!?! Well there are somethings I wouldnt give, and one is the security of my finances. I couldnt justify a $3,500 (engine expense, plus race expenses for RA) expense by tapping an investment. And our savings is dedicated to our dog who is fighting Canine Melanoma.
I'll try to make this as clear as I can one last time. (in the spirit the first comment I made in this thread)
Is it really suprising, when someone who can knowingly run a pace that is faster than 99% of the AM's and over 80% of the experts, is able to finish well?
Its a yes or no question... I need no clarification, explanation or justification... just an answer. I am not questioning the right for that person to be there. I'm not questioning ability, I am not questioning if results are earned. this isnt about track day riders vs raceers. All I asked... Is it REALLY that suprising.
Last night after dinner I had a wonderful piece of mixed berry pie with 2 scoops of vanila ice cream . The pie was just-out-of-the-oven warm before I scooped the ice cream so the mixture created a heavenly goodness full of rich, creamy and fruity filling.
YUM!
I like pie. Pie is wonderfull. Pie is a salve that sooths the hurt of this terrible world.
You should all try it - its much better than arguing over the internet.
George
Quote from: George_Linhart on July 23, 2007, 11:27:23 AM
2 scoops of vanila ice
Come on George everybody knows Vanilla Ice is a MXer who runs NESBA! :biggrin:
(and he's a labradoodle breeder) :lmao:
Quote from: 61Ex on July 23, 2007, 11:39:22 AM
Come on George everybody knows Vanilla Ice is a MXer who runs NESBA! :biggrin:
(and he's a labradoodle breeder) :lmao:
For real?? :err: I knew he raced jet ski's like 15 yrs ago. Seen him in my hood at the Illinois State Beach Park. :thumb:
Quote from: EM JAY on July 23, 2007, 12:07:36 PM
I knew he raced jet ski's like 15 yrs ago.
He raises Canadian Lynx's too .... fo real :wtf:
Garth, for us that live far away. I apreciate the seat time. It payed off. 450lb. BMW's in the 26's and 27's.... could not be done without you having the day for us to prep and get ready.
Cheers,
N8!
Man where have I been for this thread!! Kick ass Garth! I think this thread has the highest views in a long long time!
Hey don't forget guys that I am also a track day rider too! I didn't learn my racing skills from doing track days I was already an accomplished racer before track days became available.
I now instruct part time for NESBA and I enjoy it very much. Not only do I instruct but I also test & tune my bike during the track days. Testing prior to both Road America rounds this season helped me in so many ways. At both rounds we were able to sort out problems with the bike that would have happened in the middle of the race weekend for me. I am usually the fastest rider at NESBA track days I attend if not in the top bracket of riders when AMA support teams practice. Now yes in the advanced session during NESBA I often catch up to slower riders serveral times per lap. But there are times such as the end of the day when most track day riders either run out of energy / get faster / run out of tires / fuel / or crash so either they are not out there or have gotten faster so I don't catch other riders as quickly where I can run some fast laps where I might not catch anyone in a turn. So my lap times are still pretty darn fast.
Even if I never get an open track I can still work on one turn at a time. Whatever turn might be open for me to fly into. What I can offer my advanced riders is the confidence that they can watch me going as quickly as I do and they can learn from me. I know it works because many riders comment on how when I pass them they learn a few things from what I do.
Plus what I can offer NESBA is helping select riders who ASK me for help on how to get around a certain track or body positioning etc. etc. I personally helped AJ Krause (of yes whom I sponsor at Speed Tech Racing), who dropped his times considerably prior his CCS race at Road America! He won I believe 6 amatuer races and placed in the top 5 4 other times. So yes track days does help and we take advantage of it. Plus I also finished in the top 5 in all my races as and expert against Jeff Wood, Corey West, Robert Jensen, Scott Greenwood & Brian Hall. Mind you I started in the 8th & 11th row in 2 races. Plus I finished 2nd in ASRA Sportbike class & 5th in ASRA Superbike class. Brian Hall my teammate also finished well at Road America. He placed 4th in ASRA Superbike & took home several first place expert finishes. By the way you all he also ran Thursdays NESBA track day too!
I have been racing for over 27 years of my life and roadracing for 13 yrs now and I have to say that doing track days helps me get faster. Where else can I think about my RIDING TECHNIQUE and learn to hone my skills. When your racing your racing and you apply what you already know. When your practicing you should be trying different things with your riding skills because your not so worried about the lap times if you screw up.
I wrote a press release for Speed Tech Racing after CCS Road America and it posted on Roadracing World. In there we thanked Garth for running a great organization for us to tune at prior to races. We will continue to take advantage of the track time that we can to gain ground on our competitors if we can.
I was very happy to see my fellow NESBIANS kick ass at Road America this year. Especially when I help some of those riders get faster during NESBA track days. Garth Cloyd has a great thing going & hope continued success happens in NESBA track day organizations.
So here is a comment to all you naysayers "If you can't beat em join em"
Quote from: J Farrell / Speed Tech Motorsp on July 23, 2007, 02:47:11 PM
Man where have I been for this thread!!
Probably elbow deep in a Brian's motor...... :biggrin:
Whatver dude, you're not that fast, I can hang on to you if I skip the bend every lap. :err:
I gotta go clean my pickup screen.....
Quote from: backMARKr on July 22, 2007, 04:46:12 PM
Todd....when you buy your next helmet or bodywork ---let me know :thumb:
I'll hook you up....
Cool, is your sister hot? :biggrin:
(Goin fer 20 pages and a weerrrd from that Robbie van der Winkles twinkle-- toes- lynx labraddoodle- breeder- from- the- cabrini- greens vanilla ice cream pie Ice Ice baby, yo) :err:
Quote from: J Farrell / Speed Tech Motorsp on July 23, 2007, 02:47:11 PM
What I can offer my advanced riders is the confidence that they can watch me going as quickly as I do and they can learn from me.
Even the guys that fade into your line on turn 7 while looking over their shoulder for the guy they are towing? LOL
once again...sorry bout that Jason :)
Quote from: Firecat on July 23, 2007, 03:53:43 PM
Even the guys that fade into your line on turn 7 while looking over their shoulder for the guy they are towing? LOL
once again...sorry bout that Jason :)
Yeah your right I've got to stop letting ASRA regulars stop putting dirty passes on me right! I need more practice! Time to ride the 50's in the lot again! Man your right I can't let that happen anymore!
Now I'm irritated.
Thanks for the motivation to go faster! See you at the next track!
And who might the mysterious firecat be?
Wisconsin 36yrs old? Hmmm....
:cheers:
qui tacet consentire videtur :thumb:
so back to this pie thing... was that 2 scoops??
My grandma brought some ruhbarb back her last visit... I know my Mom's gonna throw together a pie or 3... was thinking a good french vanilla topper. Do you double the size of the slice for the double scoop of IC? or is the ration of IC to pie better with a standard slice?
Oh, and how was the cheesecake??
We had cheesecake for my wife's grandma's birthday celebration. I had some for breakfast the next day.
Quote from: Super Dave on July 24, 2007, 12:28:24 PM
We had cheesecake for my wife's grandma's birthday celebration. I had some for breakfast the next day.
I made 12 cupcakes, 1 layer of chocolate cake and some chocolate frosting on Sunday. Frosted the cupcakes and Roger ate the rest of the frosting. So now there's naked cake.
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.artasauthority.com%2Frubber%2520rose%2FCheesecake%2520Picnic%2520Party.jpg&hash=82fa6a159ff7de399586768618e7810673ab476f)
YUMMY
back in my college coaching days we had a mom of one of my players bring cheescake brownies. basically a brownie with a tasty cheescake topping... oh baaaaaaaaaby was it good!!
Jenny makes chocolate cheesecake cupcakes. Maybe I'll have to bring some of those by when its time to refi!!! :thumb:
oh yeah baby!!! Me and chocolate cheescake are like :kissy:
but to wait until its time to refi???? no need for that... I'm actually available anytime this weekend for cupcakes. :biggrin:
and with this reply we're 23 posts away from hitting the top 5 threads for reply count..
make it 22
double down... :biggrin:
WOOOOOHOOOOOO 21!!!!!
Quote from: tstruyk on July 25, 2007, 11:10:55 AM
double down... :biggrin:
Who's the big winner? You are Mikey, you're the big winner.
How about all those pretty babies, and your claws, and fangs, and they are like bunnies, and you have those claws... :biggrin:
I don't want to be the guy in the PG-13 movie everyone's *really* hoping makes it happen. I want to be like the guy in the rated R movie, you know, the guy you're not sure whether or not you like yet. You're not sure where he's coming from.
#214?
Jeff Sucks! :ahhh: :biggrin:
Even the cameraman was crying. Well, he had his own issues going on....
I don't know, it was 'Drugs Are Bad', 'Jenny Eat Something', whatever-it was an After School Special.
Quote from: tstruyk on July 25, 2007, 01:17:59 PM
I don't know, it was 'Drugs Are Bad', 'Jenny Eat Something', whatever-it was an After School Special.
:ahhh: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :ahhh:
Quote from: tstruyk on July 25, 2007, 12:23:36 PM
I don't want to be the guy in the PG-13 movie everyone's *really* hoping makes it happen. I want to be like the guy in the rated R movie, you know, the guy you're not sure whether or not you like yet. You're not sure where he's coming from.
What is this from? I know I recognize it, but have no idea what movie it is.
from double down on is all from "swingers" :thumb:
I knew I recognized it. Great movie! I haven't watched it in a while.
You're so money baby and you don't even know it!
Quote from: tstruyk on July 25, 2007, 12:23:36 PM
I don't want to be the guy in the PG-13 movie everyone's *really* hoping makes it happen. I want to be like the guy in the rated R movie, you know, the guy you're not sure whether or not you like yet. You're not sure where he's coming from.
Or the NESBA guy at the back of the grid who sprints up 5 rows before T2, noone knows where he came from?! Wow! :wah:
Quote from: rogers1323 on July 25, 2007, 02:56:53 PM
I knew I recognized it. Great movie! I haven't watched it in a while.
You're so money baby and you don't even know it!
have you seen "Made"?? even better IMO!
I agree. Except that I wanted to punch Vince Vaughn in the face the whole time for being such a dumbass. I saw that one in L.A. when it was in limited release in about 3 cities in the country. And I bought the DVD as soon as I saw it in the store. Not many people know it as well though.
I saw it in the theaters when it was released in st louis. Bought the DVD as soon as it came out!
"Here's fifty bucks, take this in case I get drunk and I call you a bitch later. I'm only kidding with you, but take it anyway. This is how I do it and I'm gonna do it all night long."
Quote from: tstruyk on July 25, 2007, 03:02:05 PM
have you seen "Made"?? even better IMO!
Agreed!
Vince Vaugn fan tidbit....
In 'Swingers' and 'Made', almost all of his lines were ad-libbed.
His buddy John Fabrigo (guy who made both those movies) said Vaugn "IS" the characters he played in those two movies...he was just playing himself.
Both those guys are a riot!!! :lmao: would love to hang with them for a night 8)
Or Jon Favreau any Jon will do...
OH damn... how fitting is this... :lmao: :lmao:
"We don't wanna talk, we wanna scream at people, but we don't wanna listen or problem solve and that's what's frustrating about the dynamic of the group"
http://www.ccsforum.com/index.php/topic,737.0.html :ass:
Quote from: KC_124 on July 25, 2007, 05:18:22 PM
http://www.ccsforum.com/index.php/topic,737.0.html :ass:
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Quote from: KC_124 on July 25, 2007, 05:18:22 PM
http://www.ccsforum.com/index.php/topic,737.0.html :ass:
We got 17 more pages to go :ahhh:
Lock it at 31! :cheers:
Quote from: Speedballer347 on July 25, 2007, 08:42:45 PM
We got 17 more pages to go :ahhh:
It will never make it there unless someone reminds everyone that NESBA sucks.
NESBA needs more cone.
Quote from: Mongo on July 26, 2007, 03:02:57 PM
NESBA needs more cone.
I think WERA needs more NESBA riders...
AND online registration. :kicknuts:
:D
Ok, I just got home from Oregon. Did I miss anything?
Can I just skip the last 4 or 5 pages and not be any dumber? :blahblah:
Burt, did you get my message? Give me a buzz
Tstruyk, Jenny made chocolate cheesecake cupcakes but you never called me back so I ate them all.
Quote from: Burt Munro on July 26, 2007, 09:27:27 PM
Ok, I just got home from Oregon. Did I miss anything?
Can I just skip the last 4 or 5 pages and not be any dumber? :blahblah:
No way man, there's some good information in there about how to become a good racer.
Quote from: wolf44 on July 26, 2007, 10:22:07 PM
Burt, did you get my message? Give me a buzz
Dan,
I had to leave for a bit...
I'll call in the morning. I'm hoping to leave by noon for Blackhawk.
Quote from: r1owner on July 26, 2007, 10:41:33 PM
No way man, there's some good information in there about how to become a good racer.
So can I assume you'll be about 2 sec a lap faster now? :spank:
Quote from: Burt Munro on July 26, 2007, 11:19:25 PM
So can I assume you'll be about 2 sec a lap faster now? :spank:
Nah.... I'm going to take about 3 or 4 years off so I can "practice". :)
Quote from: wolf44 on July 26, 2007, 10:22:07 PM
Burt, did you get my message? Give me a buzz
Tstruyk, Jenny made chocolate cheesecake cupcakes but you never called me back so I ate them all.
when did you call? I call bullshit... you told her you called just so you could eat em all yourself :finger:
Quote from: r1owner on July 26, 2007, 11:37:50 PM
Nah.... I'm going to take about 3 or 4 years off so I can "practice". :)
:ahhh:
shhhhhhh .... you had me at hello
Quote from: G 97 on July 16, 2007, 04:17:27 PM
Amateur Middleweight Superbike
3 JOSEPH DENOWH
4 MELISSIA APPEL
Amateur Unlimited Superbike
1 DUSTIN BOYD
2 RON HIX
Expert Unlimited Superbike
1 BRIAN BOYD
5 BRETT BOYD
Amateur Unlimited GP
1 RON HIX
11 DUSTIN BOYD
Amateur GTU
6 DUSTIN BOYD
17 DAN GIZYNSKI
Amateur GTO
1 DUSTIN BOYD
2 RON HIX
Amateur Middleweight SuperSport
7 DUSTIN BOYD
9 MELISSIA APPEL
11 JOSEPH DENOWH
19 TODD MURRAY
Expert GTO
3 BRIAN BOYD
4 GARTH CLOYD
8 BRETT BOYD
Expert Formula 40
7 PAUL VONDRAK
Expert Middleweight SuperSport
18 CHRISTOPHER FRYE
Amateur Unlimited SuperSport
1 DUSTIN BOYD
2 RON HIX
Expert Unlimited SuperSport
3 BRIAN BOYD
Amateur Lightweight Grand Prix
4 JOEL SPALDING
Amateur GT Lights
1 JOEL SPALDING
Amateur ThunderBike
3 JOEL SPALDING
Amateur SuperTwins
8 JOEL SPALDING
Amateur Middleweight Superbike
4 JOSEPH DENOWH
7 MELISSIA APPEL
16 TODD MURRAY
Amateur Unlimited Superbike
1 RON HIX
10 DUSTIN BOYD
Expert Unlimited Superbike
1 BRIAN BOYD
Amateur Middleweight Grand Prix
3 MELISSIA APPEL
6 DUSTIN BOYD
13 TODD MURRAY
Expert Unlimited GP
6 BRIAN BOYD
7 GARTH CLOYD
Amateur Middleweight SuperSport
5 JOSEPH DENOWH
6 DUSTIN BOYD
Expert Formula 40
9 PAUL VONDRAK
Amateur Unlimited SuperSport
1 RON HIX
2 DUSTIN BOYD
Expert Unlimited SuperSport
6 BRIAN BOYD
GTU
3 TEAM APPEL Melissa Appel,Alan Federsen
OVERALL
8 TEAM APPEL Melissa Appel,Alan Federsen
Superstock
7 GARTH CLOYD
Not bad for track day riders. :thumb:
jeez, I think there's some ama folk in der too!!
What a joke. Why someone would waste there time to show you that NESBA riders are fast. Just because someone signs up to do a NESBA track day doesn't mean NESBA had anything to do with there success. Most NESBA riders get more seat time than CCS riders out there but are just too scared to grid up in a real race. In fact I can think of 4 riders off the top of my head that are in that position. Imagine how much Faster some of your NESBA riders could be if they spent more time improving there riding instead of worrying about getting there "A Bump".
:pop:
Quote from: tstruyk on July 27, 2007, 02:01:39 AM
when did you call? I call bullshit... you told her you called just so you could eat em all yourself :finger:
You were supposed to call back about the tickets I was going to give you and you never did
you sure? I coulda sworn I called back and told ya no go... sorry man.
Lot goin on, but there always is... alot goin on.
oh and pass the butter Dan :cheers:
we may just get another 17 pages outta this one yet! :lmao:
mmmm....we just had pizza....jj twigs double decker thin crust :thumb:
isnt someone supposed to be dropping something off at my house???
Quote from: kvanengen on July 27, 2007, 01:51:43 PM
What a joke. Why someone would waste there time to show you that NESBA riders are fast. Just because someone signs up to do a NESBA track day doesn't mean NESBA had anything to do with there success. Most NESBA riders get more seat time than CCS riders out there but are just too scared to grid up in a real race. In fact I can think of 4 riders off the top of my head that are in that position. Imagine how much Faster some of your NESBA riders could be if they spent more time improving there riding instead of worrying about getting there "A Bump".
If your comment wasn't so shortsighted and lacking intellectual substance, I might actually take the time to respond.
There was this one time back in college when these two cute girls, who must have been NESBIANS, got really drunk and let me watch while they...
...oh wait, that would be Lesbian, not Nesbian.
Never mind - I seem to have nothing to add here. Pleae continue on with your argument.
I definitely believe that I did well in my first races because of the Nesba staff. In hindsight, I didn't know anything about riding when I started with Nesba last year. I thought I did. I didn't.
What the heck would I learn about riding properly by racing from day 1? Would someone see that I was clueless and take me aside to coach me? Would you give up your practice sessions to follow me around and make me a safer rider? I would have been a huge danger to myself and everyone else on that track if I just started racing on day 1.
Quote from: Speedballer347 on July 20, 2007, 08:01:10 PM
Dude, why are you taking this stuff personally?
None of my comments are directed at you, I don't even know you.
Ease up brother, this is just a discussion...personal opinions...no one is personally attacking anyone. It's just generalizations.
Now your getting it! You're offending him and all of us that chose the path of trackdays first. We may not have an agenda to sandbag. We just chose the route that we thought would give us the most fun, keep us safe, and help us build skills. We work our ass off riding at the track, driving to events etc. We work hard to develop the skills that people better than us are trying to share. We crash. We fix our bikes, we work overtime to be able to race. If we're to fast for you, then petition CCS to have us bumped to experts. Heck, why have experts at all. Just have one big race. I find it strange that Nesba can't issue a race license to a qualified rider. But anyone can pay some money, go as slow as they want so they don't crash and get a license regardless of their skill. I hate to say it, but even the DMV has higher standards.
It seems some of you don't care for Garth. And thats ok. I however, have never met someone that goes so far out of his way to help his sand bagging and non sand bagging members. He doesn't spend much time riding because he's running the organization for this region. He's donating his time to give us the resources to ride the track. Thanks Garth!
Quote from: red900 on July 21, 2007, 08:57:45 AM
TRACKTIME DOES NOT EQUAL FAST!!!!!
Fast is what is in you. It is Will, Drive, Determination, Sacrifice, Energy, Failure, Listening, Learning, Pushing, Falling, etc etc etc etc
Damn your smart!
I know I'm late to this discussion. I love Nesba and what it's done for me. If it wasn't for Nesba I would have never been able to do the only thing I've dreamed of doing. Riding the track and racing.
[/quote]
Quote from: xb9racer on July 21, 2007, 10:16:21 AM
TRACKTIME DOES NOT EQUAL FAST!!!!!
Really!!?? What's that old saying oh yeah Practice makes perfect.
Sorry dude, but you're dead fucking wrong. So wrong it's to the point of stupid.
Thats just flat out funny. Sweet! I'm gonna ride 24\7 so I can stomp Rossi! Haha.. I now have the secret! How did you state that......? :blahblah:
As a new Nesba CR, I look forward to coaching future sand baggers to keep this debate alive for a long time. Thanks to Dustin, Marshall, Melissa, Barry and all the other Nesba CRs (sorry for not listing you all) who race that have helped me along the way. I APPRECIATE YOU & YOUR TIME!
I think Marshall and Dustin have summed up my sentiments exactly.
QuoteI find it strange that Nesba can't issue a race license to a qualified rider.
me too. Why is that? MCRA can, Trackaddix can, Super Dave can... is it a concious choice to try to keep riders from making that transition? Something in the Kool-aid that makes you think it takes 4 years of practicing to be "ready" to race? Or are they just trying to make it easier... less work, no extra workers, no extra classroom time... kind of a "one less thing" attitude. I am genuinely intersted.
as for everything else... I'm still not suprised at the results. I dont know why thats such a bad thing??? I'm not suprised when fast folks go fast and win races...
I can't "issue" a license. CCS does that. But I have an approved cirriculum for the safety aspects of motorcycle road racing, and that's what is necessary to be certified for a road race license.
Yeah, kind of hard to issue a racing license if you don't actually put on races....
NESBA currently doesn't offer a racing school. Could they? Of course. Will they? Probably at some point but I'd guess they want to make sure they can do a good school and not have it interfere with the product they currently offer their customers.
Quote from: tstruyk on July 28, 2007, 02:21:01 PM
isnt someone supposed to be dropping something off at my house???
Some guy with a machine gun said I should leave it with him.
I didn't argue!
its not the machine gun I would be worried about...
its the Jo-Jo Bits...
I hear jo jo bits likes cheesecake
JoJo bits eats led and shits bullets... true story
sad part is, I believe you
baller's been showing him pictures of me and then squirting him in the eyes with hot sauce... I'm screwed at the next GIR TD....
:lmao:
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg514.imageshack.us%2Fimg514%2F9180%2Fbittybitir0.jpg&hash=105c64b60bdf6dac13c21cae0a1412ca51540e42)
you expect me to sleep after seeing that?? I need an ambien...
Come here... Nice Doggie, Nice Doggie...... Kootchy, Koo......
Can I have my finger back? :wtf:
Dogs like that get Poprocks in my neighborhood!! :err:
We're #3! We're #3! We're #3!
Only 85 more posts to overtake #2! :ass:
http://www.ccsforum.com/index.php?action=stats
So, a ploar bear and a NESBIAN walk into a bar.
The Nesbian orders a beer and the polar bear says "I would like to have a...."
....
....
....
....
....
after waiting patiently for over a minute for the polar bear to finish his order the bartender leans over and asks the bear,
"WHAT IS WITH THE BIG PAWS?"
badum.... kssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh.
:lmao: :lmao:
Quote from: wolf44 on August 01, 2007, 05:18:53 PM
:lmao:
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg514.imageshack.us%2Fimg514%2F9180%2Fbittybitir0.jpg&hash=105c64b60bdf6dac13c21cae0a1412ca51540e42)
He would be no match for Darth Pug. :biggrin:
Some other "sad dogs". :lmao:
SOme more...
That sh!t is funny Rob! I have a baby pug and now I am going to have to dress her up in silly stuff like that and post some pics of her.
What ever you do, bring her to blackhawk in 2 weeks. :biggrin:
Time to stir up some more crap on this thread.....
Heard this one from Jerry Jeff Walker talking to Ray Wiley Hubbard and the Cowboy Twinkie Band.....
... this doctor struck up a conversation with a 75-year old Texas rancher while treating a cut on his hand. The Rancher got his hand caught in a gate while working cattle.
Eventually the topic got around to former Texas Governor, George W. Bush and his elevation to the White House. The old Texan said, "Well, ya know, Little Georgie Bush is just a 'fencepost
turtle'."
Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him what a 'fencepost turtle' was.
The old rancher said, "You know when you're driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a fence post turtle."
The old man saw a puzzled look on the doctor's face, so he continued to explain,
"You know he didn't get there by himself,
he doesn't belong there,
he doesn't know what to do while he's up there,
and you just want to help the dumbshit get down." :thumb:
oh you did NOT just go "politics" on this thread... now we just need religion, and abortion to get brought up and we'll have the longest thread EVER. :ahhh:
NESBA trackday riders place well at AMA Mid-Ohio :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
That is the place to show how You really are :) :biggrin:
Why You don't post Nesba riders results from there? :ass: :ass:
Just don't use full time CCS racer with nesba membership as NESBA riders pleeeease
CCS racers kick Nesbians ass big time there :spank: :spank: :spank:
Breakfast at the White House:
Dick Cheney and George W. Bush were having breakfast at the White House. The attractive waitress asks Cheney what he would like, and he replies, "I'd like a bowl of oatmeal and some fruit.
"And what can I get for you, Mr. President?"
George W. looking up from his menu, replies with his trademark wink and slight grin,.... "How about a quickie this morning?"
"Why, Mr. President!" the waitress exclaims "How rude! You're starting to act like Mr. Clinton!
As the waitress storms away, Cheney leans over to Bush and whispers.......... "It's pronounced, 'Quiche' " !
Quote from: surftheasphalt on August 07, 2007, 10:24:04 PM
NESBA trackday riders place well at AMA Mid-Ohio :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
That is the place to show how You really are :) :biggrin:
Why You don't post Nesba riders results from there? :ass: :ass:
Just don't use full time CCS racer with nesba membership as NESBA riders pleeeease
CCS racers kick Nesbians ass big time there :spank: :spank: :spank:
LOL, those in the know is all what matters. You are more than welcome to come to any NESBA track day event and if you outpace the ADVANCED group I will donate $500 to the AFF. Don't be a hater.
Honestly dude, what do you have to lose..... A big time racer like you vs. lowley track day peeps. Step up my man. it's all good. :cheers:
:pop:
Quote from: Woofentino Pugrossi on August 02, 2007, 06:21:50 PM
SOme more...
Here are some Pugs who could use a little help Rob......
http://www.ksdk.com/video/default.aspx?aid=57230&bw=
man I thought this thing died...how many post are we away?
Quote from: G 97 on August 12, 2007, 01:44:28 AM
LOL, those in the know is all what matters. You are more than welcome to come to any NESBA track day event and if you outpace the ADVANCED group I will donate $500 to the AFF. Don't be a hater.
Honestly dude, what do you have to lose..... A big time racer like you vs. lowley track day peeps. Step up my man. it's all good. :cheers:
does that offer stand for any amatuer? :cheers:
Wow, what a post. My one problem with Nesba is their "superiority" attitude problem they have. I mean, how many times have we heard "Our I group is equivalent to other track day club's Advanced group." Give me a break, I have never heard more BS in my life.
Someone said earlier, that most of the guys are only worried about their "A" bump. And man is that true. All they worry about, talk about etc is being "bumped." I choose to spend my time (and money) with places that are not so obsessed with getting bumped. Bumped for what? So they have a cool "A" sticker to show their friends and co-workers.
The line between track day whores and real racers will always exist. I know which one I am, do you?
You obviously have never ridden both groups and compared.
It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that the advanced group at a place where you have to prove yourself, vs. the advanced group with someone whom allows anyone off the street to decide what level they track ride at, is much much different. The vast majority of street squids I talk to at bike nights all think they are a very good street rider so they would be advanced riders at a track day. NOT
When I ride at in an advanced group at a track day I want to trust that the others around me have proven themselves to other advanced riders to be safe and trustoworthy. There may be a time when I am following closely through a corner, looking through another riders windscreen and hoping to god he maintains his line and does not do anything stupid....
Go ahead, try that with any other group, you will find yourself wishing there was some sort of qualifications.
Quote from: Ashton on August 21, 2007, 11:03:46 PM
Wow, what a post. My one problem with Nesba is their "superiority" attitude problem they have. I mean, how many times have we heard "Our I group is equivalent to other track day club's Advanced group." Give me a break, I have never heard more BS in my life.
Someone said earlier, that most of the guys are only worried about their "A" bump. And man is that true. All they worry about, talk about etc is being "bumped." I choose to spend my time (and money) with places that are not so obsessed with getting bumped. Bumped for what? So they have a cool "A" sticker to show their friends and co-workers.
The line between track day whores and real racers will always exist. I know which one I am, do you?
its not a superiority, attitude problem... they are just better than everybody.
duh
Quote from: red900 on August 22, 2007, 07:31:09 AM
You obviously have never ridden both groups and compared.
It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that the advanced group at a place where you have to prove yourself, vs. the advanced group with someone whom allows anyone off the street to decide what level they track ride at, is much much different. The vast majority of street squids I talk to at bike nights all think they are a very good street rider so they would be advanced riders at a track day. NOT
When I ride at in an advanced group at a track day I want to trust that the others around me have proven themselves to other advanced riders to be safe and trustoworthy. There may be a time when I am following closely through a corner, looking through another riders windscreen and hoping to god he maintains his line and does not do anything stupid....
Go ahead, try that with any other group, you will find yourself wishing there was some sort of qualifications.
thanks for proving my point exactly :)
Racers race. If all you do is track days then you have absolutely nothing on which to base how "fast" you are.
If you want to prove it - race. If you do not want to race, then don't try to tell people how fast you are.
Quote from: Mongo on August 22, 2007, 11:54:28 AM
Racers race. If all you do is track days then you have absolutely nothing on which to base how "fast" you are.
If you want to prove it - race. If you do not want to race, then don't try to tell people how fast you are.
+1 Mongo
Quote from: Mongo on August 22, 2007, 11:54:28 AM
Racers race. If all you do is track days then you have absolutely nothing on which to base how "fast" you are.
If you want to prove it - race. If you do not want to race, then don't try to tell people how fast you are.
That is funny, I found more af a challenge to go "fast" before I came to racing... Now that I race, all I have to do is get in front. Neither tell me how fast I am.
Quote from: Ashton on August 22, 2007, 11:19:24 AM
thanks for proving my point exactly :)
Oh you are very welcome, considering you made no point. I will do it for you any day of the week cuz we cool like that.
Yep, we all know how a 1:12 is way faster during a CCS race at Blackhawk apposed to a 1:11 at a track day. :thumb:
I just want to say how much I appreciate all the effort everyone has put in this summer to remind me how my high school students behave towards each other.... :banghead:
BUT...now that school has officially started....NO NEED TO CONTINUE!
Can I get a bathroom pass?
(aren't you suppose to be TEACHING????) :spank:
Quote from: Mongo on August 22, 2007, 11:54:28 AM
Racers race. If all you do is track days then you have absolutely nothing on which to base how "fast" you are.
If you want to prove it - race. If you do not want to race, then don't try to tell people how fast you are.
Who is trying to prove how fast they are?
Quote from: red900 on August 23, 2007, 01:28:23 PM
Who is trying to prove how fast they are?
ooh red just zipp, its enough of this topic, :blahblah:
Quote from: Burt Munro on August 23, 2007, 01:12:43 PM
Can I get a bathroom pass?
(aren't you suppose to be TEACHING????) :spank:
Too hot too teach ...they aren't listening anyway...
I am in the "I" group with Nesba, and lately I have been racing with CCS & WERA. I will say this, the heart pump, rush, orgasm, pride, all that chit comes to the top when I race. However, I still do trackdays, and right now the trackdays to me are just ways to improve my chit for racing.
If and when by any chance of fate, I get good, I might just cut trackdays out all together 8)..Maybe one or two a year to hang with some buddies. I come away from races beaming like I just climbed Mt. Everest!!! :thumb:
With Nesba it is harder to get bumped then other orgs. And to get bumped to "A" in Nesba it requires the recommendation of two CRs. I might not never get to A. In races, I don't need to be in "A" to let it all hang out. Racing is just "doing it"..
To be truthful, I love all this chit. I started this trackday and now racing, way, way late.. Even though I might be the slowest of the slow in the races, I still will get my old azz out there and RACE.
With me, it is all about FUN, and I tell ya this, having fun in the late years is a super treat. :thumb:
Quote from: red900 on August 22, 2007, 05:41:04 PM
That is funny, I found more af a challenge to go "fast" before I came to racing... Now that I race, all I have to do is get in front. Neither tell me how fast I am.
You are dicing with front-pack experts. You are expert level.....meaning you should have a white plate on your bike.
I will next year, but for this year I am an amateur....
oh geeze I cant resist...
Ok DB... just because I'm curious. What is the motivation for you to stay an AM? Is it the awards, the contingency (well thats a given)? What is the motivation. I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone that would say someone of your ability is "benefiting" from running away with AM races. Wouldnt you find more speed or be forced to step up your game moreso as an Ex? What do you have to gain from staying an Am?
I am gonna re-assess my stance on rr900 and the whole issue.
Amateur? I dunno....yeah, kinda sorta. Years of trackdays takes the shine off of his finishes for me, but he is am and has every right to be there.
Lap times, I dunno...I know me and a bunch of other am's got into the nines at gateway (I think Pruitt and Drew Nash even got into the high 8's in amateur in 03) on our old 600's...so we would be as much sandbaggers.
I dunno. I just think years of TD's and entering AM at Expert-level lap-times isn't what the amateur ranks is truly meant for.
Regardless, he is superfast rider. I will have all respect and big accolades for him when he has a white plate and winning. I expect he will win a bunch of races.
.02
Quote from: Speedballer347 on August 29, 2007, 05:28:18 PM
I am gonna re-assess my stance on rr900 and the whole issue.
John Kerry?
no its just like the Dem's... he has a "plan" :lmao:
speedy...Call me when you get a sec.
timmay
Quote from: red900 on August 28, 2007, 10:15:04 PM
I will next year, but for this year I am an amateur....
Trust me... from what I saw at Blackhawk in July, he still has a lot of amateur in him! :lmao:
Quote from: Burt Munro on August 29, 2007, 06:08:00 PM
Trust me... from what I saw at Blackhawk in July, he still has a lot of amateur in him! :lmao:
Did it look anything like the first one in this clip?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPVRXM8RIRM
LOL...just bustin your balls a bit Dustin
Quote from: Ashton on August 22, 2007, 11:19:24 AM
thanks for proving my point exactly :)
Red900, he obviously doesn't get it.
Some people just don't like having to prove themselves. It keeps people honest.
Quote from: gkotlin on August 30, 2007, 10:20:54 PM
Red900, he obviously doesn't get it.
Some people just don't like having to prove themselves. It keeps people honest.
Why would a racer care about proving themselves at a trackday?
You nesba boys take yourselves way too seriously. Sit back and relax, you'll live longer
I have chosen to remain an amateur for a couple reasons. There is no factory contingency for AM racing so that has nothing to do with it. I came into this season with a goal of staying alive and having fun. I actually skipped my 2 very first races because I was scared to race in the rain. This was Friday at HPT for those of you that remember. So If my goal was to win a championship, I would have raced. But I did get to run 4 races that weekend and I found out I did well and oh what a rush. I thought maybe that was just pure luck of the draw and the future rounds would bring out the competition. By about the third round the realization of an amateur championship became a real possibility, The other option was to request expert status based on my finishes and points. Realistically, I am a low budget racer, with horrible form, and nothing but my ability to feel the bike and hang on well. I am not some natural talent, I have to work hard for all of it. This includes the funding to run a full season. Now, a full season at amateur level vs a full season at expert level are totally different from a money perspective. Unless you are extremely talented, you need a lot of money to compete for a championship with the experts. You need motors, spares, tires, and time. I could really only afford time considering I was unemployed from December until June this season... No money – do what you can. I can win an AM championship, or I can try to finish top 5 with the experts and live in constant frustration as to what I need to win... I only had one year to win an AM championship and I was unemployed. I made my choice. I will spend less money and go for a full season as an amateur. Next year boys, I can't afford to run a full season with intentions to win, it will just plain be out of my budget.....
Like it or not, I have met the rules and I am not cheating. Maybe I am faster, maybe I am not. But what is the real point of this game?
Quote from: Burt Munro on August 29, 2007, 06:08:00 PM
Trust me... from what I saw at Blackhawk in July, he still has a lot of amateur in him! :lmao:
remind me to kick your shins next time we meet..... I just cant hide from the peanut gallery.
Quote from: wolf44 on August 29, 2007, 07:16:09 PM
Did it look anything like the first one in this clip?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPVRXM8RIRM
LOL...just bustin your balls a bit Dustin
Still finished that race, with no shield and no windscreen at road america... Lots of water in the eyes... and I wasnt cryin so dont go there.
Quote from: red900 on August 31, 2007, 11:15:59 AM
Like it or not, I have met the rules and I am not cheating. Maybe I am faster, maybe I am not. But what is the real point of this game?
that was a good post, one i can appreciate. It boils down to money. the one constant battle that 99.9% of us struggle with. I'd have made the same decision FWIW.
but your implication that I inferred you are "cheating" in someway is off the mark (again)
I dont have to like it, but I also never said what you do/did was wrong. Again, given the experience of some mentioned in this thread... its just not a suprise you are doing well. you deserve every piece of wood and every contingecy credit you recieve. and next year you'll deserve the same. (if you are back, the only reason I say this is you were unemployed for 6months and ran 2 bikes? I'm calling you Marshall 2.0 from now on :biggrin:) Hopefully I'll be back in business after the winter with a fresh motor and a head of steam to play the game with you. things are panning out just about right to make that happen, now if only yamaha would solve this bottom end issue...
Garth I still luv you :biggrin:
Thanks again for all of your help at Road Atlanta last weekend. You did a great job.
Kevin
Now if Kevin would put me on a ride for a year, maybe I could go big time...
I think you have to go expert and win a few races first before you can get your license. :thumb:
It's all about who ya know......
Bring your check book and he will let you ride.
Quote from: superspud on August 21, 2007, 08:03:26 PM
Garth, does that offer stand for any amatuer? :cheers:
It would be great to get more airfence.
Dang Red900! I post up a few times in this thread to try to help people see your point of view and suddenly, I got bad karma! Why do you have to have to go and push everyones buttons. I will rename you Garth 2.0.........
There's no such thing as bad karma, you're just more memorable now. :lmao:
Quote from: superspud on October 27, 2007, 06:49:41 AM
There's no such thing as bad karma, you're just more memorable now. :lmao:
Good karma given for such wise words...
I love this thread :biggrin:
NESBA Sucks!!!! :-D
:biggrin:
Congratulations Dustin.
mmm hmm
word kitty kat.
How many NESBA guys running AMA this year?
wow...looks like someone was hitting the sauce late last night
I know Skip is running AMA for cyclespace.com. HE is a NESBA control rider.
A fairer question would be "How many NESBA Guys are fast enough to qualify for an AMA National?"
Thats a good question Drucker....Road America is easier to qualify at because of the how long a lap time is there. It's easier to make the percentages.
For a closer comparison, I'm guessing a guy would have to do really low 12's at Blackhawk on a 600 to make the grid.
What does everyone else think?
What was the cut off for Superstock qualifying at Road America for the last several years?
07 as wet qualifying and race, so lets go back to 06 Superstock. E Boz threw down a 2:13.674. 110% of that is a 2:27.041
Fastest dry practice time in 2007 was a 2:14.211 by AMA Superbike champ Ben Spies.
So I would bet the 08 Superstock times will drop at Road America.
Quote from: mdr14 on January 26, 2008, 12:08:42 PM
I know Skip is running AMA for cyclespace.com. HE is a NESBA control rider.
A fairer question would be "How many NESBA Guys are fast enough to qualify for an AMA National?"
Skip is also running a gsxr 1000 and giving up the 600's. Why am I going the other direction???
Quote from: mdr14 on January 28, 2008, 02:51:42 PM
07 as wet qualifying and race, so lets go back to 06 Superstock. E Boz threw down a 2:13.674. 110% of that is a 2:27.041
Fastest dry practice time in 2007 was a 2:14.211 by AMA Superbike champ Ben Spies.
So I would bet the 08 Superstock times will drop at Road America.
OK, so if use the 2:25 - 2:27 range as the cutoff, then some of the NESBA CR's could just barely, maybe function as AMA backmarkers. :thumb:
I take it you are only riding the 600 next year? I`m sure you`ll do great!
Yep, just a little ol six double o for me. Going back to my roots.
Quote from: ronhix on January 28, 2008, 07:03:28 PM
OK, so if use the 2:25 - 2:27 range as the cutoff, then some of the NESBA CR's could just barely, maybe function as AMA backmarkers. :thumb:
Yep, and with ama rules it will only take you a few more years to get it.
Quote from: red900 on January 30, 2008, 02:44:14 PM
Yep, and with ama rules it will only take you a few more years to get it.
Yep, looking forward to the journey. Good luck on that little ol six double o this year.
I'm really surprised this topic wasn't resurrected yet....................... :ahhh:
this thread needs to die.
Quote from: Burt Munro on July 08, 2008, 01:22:20 PM
I'm really surprised this topic wasn't resurrected yet....................... :ahhh:
You
ARE a professional shit disturber! :)
How do your CR's handle having to talk to people with respect at CCS races? Being that CCS is a happy friendly place.
I had to pile on.
SWEET. I LOVE THIS THREAD.