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NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races

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rogers1323

Re: NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races
« Reply #120 on: July 20, 2007, 05:07:34 pm »
I don't recall any of the finishers listed coming on here and boasting about how fast they are. I also think you are jumping to a SERIOUS conclusion when you assume all those people listed in the first page have been riding trackdays for "years"

Wow.  Let me slow things down for you.  I assumed nothing.  The conversation is about people doing track days for years, and then showing up to race.  I know nothing about the people on the first page, and have never assumed that I did.  If you look at my first post, you'll see that I address that fact right off the bat.

I think that this statement is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. When I started riding on the track..my form was horrible...I knew nothing about race lines and was lost and honestly was a danger to those around me because of my lack of knowledge. Through coaching I was able to learn the proper race line, how to properly get off my bike and how to actually ride the track.

Not with that said...I probably could have dropped laptimes much quicker while racing...but for me, eventually I would have hit a wall because there were so many other things that would have been wrong with my riding. I may have improved more slowly doing trackdays but my improvement while riding trackdays has been in the areas where I will truly recognize faster times when the time comes to race...and what I have learned will keep me safer when racing.

What I meant by that statement was apparently misunderstood.  I'll take at least half the credit for it, b/c I wasn't totally clear.  First, everyone must have some sort of training to get on the racetrack.  I do not think learning curves is sufficient for the first time track rider, but I also haven't been through it.  I think people should take some sort of race school for their first time on the track.  Cornerspeed, Schwantz, Pridmore, Bargy, Kinsey; you get the point.  After that level of instruction, many people would be ok to grid up.  Those that aren't ready can do some track days until they put into practice the things that they learned. 

Part of the problem, in my opinion, with SOME of the track day organizations is that anyone can get out on the track and without proper instruction can reinforce bad habits.  In my personal experience, I have not seen proper instruction from the "trackday" providers that I have ridden with.  Under the assumption that someone has had this instruction, and has decent technique, then they will drop laptimes faster by racing.  Therefore, once you get a foundation, trying to get fast by continuing to do trackdays is not as productive as racing.  That's what I meant by my previous comment.

I didn't ask if you would be comfortable....I asked "Who would you RATHER...."

Do I need to type more slowly?  I thought my ENTIRE explanation of this thought would have been sufficient.  Given two riders, one of each situation that you describe, rider A will be our rider who is at the track for the first time.  Rider B will be the track day rider who has never raced.  I have never seen rider A in the main group going into turn 1.  I have seen rider B in the main group going into turn 1.  I would have about the same comfort level with either of them, b/c I wouldn't trust either to be predictable and not freak out a little with the close racing.  Therefore, I would rather have rider A on the track b/c he won't be where I am in turn 1.  I know that's not the simple answer, but maybe you get the point.
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Speedballer347

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Re: NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races
« Reply #121 on: July 20, 2007, 05:08:09 pm »
Come on Speedy, it's OK, you can out yourself...


Hi, My name is Speedballer and i'm a...

sandbagger  :lmao:
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rogers1323

Re: NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races
« Reply #122 on: July 20, 2007, 05:10:51 pm »
Thanks tstruyk, I thought I was going to have to jump on that one too.  

As one last little point to that:

Red, the analogies you used would be like someone doing trackdays until they were faster than Matt Mladin, and then just joining the AMA.  Not quite what we're talking about, but thanks for playing.
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tstruyk

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Re: NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races
« Reply #123 on: July 20, 2007, 05:24:01 pm »
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Firecat

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Re: NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races
« Reply #124 on: July 20, 2007, 05:38:50 pm »
Wow.  Let me slow things down for you.  I assumed nothing.  The conversation is about people doing track days for years, and then showing up to race.  I know nothing about the people on the first page, and have never assumed that I did.  If you look at my first post, you'll see that I address that fact right off the bat.

I have seen several assumptions laced throughout your posts. I confront you on a something specific you have posted and you generalize....PLEASE pick what you would like to do...either be specific and consistent throughout all your posts or generalize and make assumptions like you have in others....please don't try to have your cake and eat it too.

The simple fact is this....Some people do many trackdays before they decide to race, and some decide to get out and learn as they race. Who here should be able to judge one way better than the other?


and before certain people jump on here and CLAIM they haven't made judgements....please reread your posts WITH AN OPEN MIND.
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rogers1323

Re: NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races
« Reply #125 on: July 20, 2007, 06:11:55 pm »
Swing and a miss.

I make assumptions like everyone does.  I will not say that I have made no assumptions anywhere in this thread.  However, in the context of the point that you are trying to make, I have assumed nothing.  While the people listed on page one didn't come on here, someone did come on here making a big deal out of them.  That discussion came from other arguments that the same person was involved in.  He was simply (in my opinion) trying to stir up past arguments.

The conversation has centered around if it is suprising and a huge deal if people who put in years of trackdays and hundreds if not thousands of track miles come out of the box and finish well as amateurs.  I have made comments in that general context.  I know nothing about the names mentioned, and have never claimed to.

You can't ASSUME that because I use the word "years" that I'm applying it to the names from the first page.  Those specific names quickly and quietly drifted from the center of conversation long ago.
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rogers1323

Re: NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races
« Reply #126 on: July 20, 2007, 06:17:56 pm »
The simple fact is this....Some people do many trackdays before they decide to race, and some decide to get out and learn as they race. Who here should be able to judge one way better than the other?

I'm not sure if anyone has claimed one better than another.  Everyone has said that we're not surprised or all that impressed if someone with tons of track experience gets out and does well in their first race weekend.  I have my opinion which is the most efficient procedure (which I explained a moment ago), but I'm still not sure that I said one was better than another.

and before certain people jump on here and CLAIM they haven't made judgements....please reread your posts WITH AN OPEN MIND.

I said nothing about judgements.  I'm sure I've judged a lot of things.  (I really don't feel like rereading 9 pages of crap to argue with you)  You are claiming that I made assumptions, and in one specific situation, and I disagree.
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Butters79

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Re: NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races
« Reply #127 on: July 20, 2007, 06:39:03 pm »
Why can't we all just get along.  :thumb:  :cheers:  :kissy:
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Speedballer347

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Re: NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races
« Reply #128 on: July 20, 2007, 07:00:34 pm »
Do a thousand trackday miles.
Hit every track that is in your region, at least 30 times.
Do not get your race license until your lap-times are top-3 expert.
Enter and win your first race amatuer race.

I will give your deserved dove-clap when you are picking up your amatuer trophies at the end of the event  :thumb:
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red900

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Re: NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races
« Reply #129 on: July 20, 2007, 07:24:52 pm »
I will give your deserved dove-clap when you are picking up your amatuer trophies at the end of the event  :thumb:

Really.....  So what kind of clap do i get for the results at MAM, HPT, and Gateway?    I never turned a lap on those tracks before i was there to race....
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Speedballer347

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Re: NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races
« Reply #130 on: July 20, 2007, 07:25:40 pm »
Really.....  So what kind of clap do i get for the results at MAM, HPT, and Gateway?    I never turned a lap on those tracks before i was there to race....

Who is talking about you?
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red900

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Re: NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races
« Reply #131 on: July 20, 2007, 07:35:27 pm »
lets see...

1.  Michael Jordan spent all that time shooting jump shots before he competed???  He never once played in a match until the NBA?   I dont believe he waited until he had the skills of an allstar before competing. 

2.  Tiger woods.  Are you really trying to throw in a golfer??  LOL. You think he waited until he was one of the top 3 golfers before he competed?

3.  Dale Earnhardt... yeah he didnt race anything at all before going to nascar...  :lmao:  He waited until he knew he could run in the top 3 and THEN he went and raced.

4. Frank Sinatra.  He didnt wait until he was the best singer to start recording.  someone saw talent and had him record.

and really I would have used more "grass roots" examples... as the top 3 obsiously had SOME experience in competition before they landed in the NBA/PGA/Nascar. 

Yes Red... people practice.  and yes they practice before they compete.  to hold out until you are sure you can win... as speedy said, its about intent.


I asked the question earlier... I'll ask again.  Are you going to bump to expert this year?  Or are you shooting for AM championships?

and finally why are you so intent on impressing me???    :biggrin:  really, I'm not that important.


Really, those were all made up examples but with a point, which you missed.....   

Many of todays best athletes practiced until they felt competent to compete at a high level.  If you are not ready, why would you move up.  I practiced and practiced and practiced before i felt as though I wanted to step up and compete.  I have been rewarded for my dedication.  Should I feel as though i deserve an amateur championship any less because I chosen to become proficient before hitting the grid?  I don't think so.  I HAVE NEVER, ever, raced before this season in my life.  4 years ago I was in the beginner group at TPM, what does that say?
Everyone here has the same options I have.  Invest the time, heart, money, and energy to make yourself faster and push yourself.  Get your ass out of bed at 5am and jog 25 miles a week.  If you have the talent it will become apparent.  I pushed myself for a couple years at trackdays and earned every bit of speed and skill I have.  I am the one with the balls to throw that bike in the corner at that speed and I hope you do to.  If you don't, either grow the balls or shut up.  Dont whine or complain that someone has more time on the bike so therefore you are not impressed.  The real truth to the matter is you have not had the balls to push yourself to the next level.
 The fact of the matter is someone can spend a million hours at the track and never win an amatuer ccs race, or on the other hand someone could step up tomorrow off a dirtbike like henderson and smoke the class...  The amount of tracktime is not the key to speed, it is the will and motivation the person driving...

Am i going expert?  No I am not for several reasons.  Does that dissapoint you or are you going to put up and race me?  I am nobody special. Do me a favor, quit finding excuses and step up to the plate with me.  I love and welcome the competition.  I rolled up on my first grid and scat my pants like every other guy at his first race....  I forgot about my budget months ago like all the rest of you...  My credit cards are maxed like all the rest of you....  I can lose the race just like all the rest of you.... 

I resent anyone who cannot look in the mirror and take responsibility for themselves and instead would rather point fingers with intent to hold someone else down.  I have earned it, Marshall earned it, Curt earned it, Hix earned it, Runte is earning it, and all the others that I am forgetting.....  We have all made the sacrifices, why shouldn't you have to?

I resent what you are inferring.
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Dustin Boyd
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