Team "Pro"Motion?

[r6_philly]

My credentials:  6 year racer, 15 year corner worker, 1 year paid professional pit crew.  Also, the first 18 years of my life I was a pit rat for my dad in SCCA car racing.

My opinion:  Good, experienced corner workers are the most precious comodity in racing.  Not every organization realises this.  CCS pays $50 per day and a free lunch.  How many people would work an outdoor job for a 14 hour day in a high-risk environment for $3.50 per hour and a crappy lunch?  Quick!  Let's see a show of hands!  Now let's figure in the worker's travel expenses...
Good workers will have a yellow up before your @$$ hits the ground.  Bad workers won't notice when you disappear into the shrubbery.  Hopefully, someone will eventually notice you never loaded your trailer and go looking for you the next day...
Anyone who disrespects the corner worker should be banned from racing.  Injury, illness, fatigue, sunburn, windburn, frostbite...  These are the pay most workers get.  That and a thumbs-up from the riders after the race.
 I know nothing about the events described in this thread, so I will not make any comment about them.  But if ANYONE out there starts making out like corner workers are lazy, spoiled, or do it for the money, I WILL be looking to continue the conversation face-to-face!

you can come to me face to face if you wish  ;D but read Chris' email, he was griping about money alright.

[G 97]

Bottom line is that if you don't take care of the corner workers you'll have nothing better than the people that NESBA has. professionalism at TPM.

I don't understand what NESBA has to do with any of this but since you took it upon yourself to make such an absurd comment please allow me to respond.

Are you saying that NESBA uses CR's that are not at the same level of qualification/experience as TPM?  I know NESBA has utilized volunteers on a very limited basis in certain situations, mostly at Pocono.   The fact is that NESBA utilizes the EXACT same CR's and safety crews that the AMA does at tracks such as Brainerd, Barber, Road America, Road Atlanta, and VIR.  NESBA also uses the same CR's and safety crews as CCS, CRA, and WERA does at the other tracks as well.  

From my experience your comments are unwarranted and have no basis in reality.  You are incorrect in insinuating that NESBA employs inferior CR's at its events - completely wrong.  

[r6_philly]

One last disclaimer from me:

After I crashed in 2001 at summit, I was very moved by MARRC corner workers and their help, and I personally wrote to MARRC to thank all that helped. It was in MARRC's news section if anyone cares to go look it up.

Will will tell you, I have always been nice to corner workers, I thanked him, or whoever that came to see me in the hospital, and I am very grateful to their services.

My posts here are not to bash cornerworkers. My responses were toward one person who went beyond and choose to bash an organization that I have been involved with for 5 years, since I started riding, and made statements that were grossly untrue or skewed.

I was not going to say anything else but I read Chris' email, and found out that he threatened to damage our reputation delibrately because he was not happy with things. So I feel that I am going to repond to these things and say what I have to say, it is only fair.

I have corner workered at least 10 times prior, I have run control at a trackday. I have run crash truck. I have been involved in track cleaning.

After guys crashed in gravel, I was the one who swept the track for gravel and debris (Chris, did you not hear over the radio that Crash truck was cleaning the track?).

I appreciate everyone's help to make a track event safe and enjoyable. I thank you when I see you, and I was never rude.

Everyone who worked on Sat was invited to our grill, the cookout, the firework party. They came, and they had a grand ole time. Why don't you ask you friends who worked pitout??

I am going to keep responding to these posts because

1. it is unfair
2. it is skewed
3. I do not like Chris as a person after I read the entire correnspondence, and knowing what I know because I was a part of the track crew on sunday.

Keep on. Bash me if you wish, but I can live with me as a person, and most of you know who I am and how I am. So I am not here making up crap to make someone look bad. I am here to make sure someone doesn't tell partial stories to make TPM look bad. Which is his intention and is made WELL KNOWN before hand.

Chris, This is not about TPM and corner workers. It is about you, who is giving MARRC corner workers a bad name. Seriously.

[r6_philly]

Dafan,

 you are an employee of TPM so I would expect nothing less than you to totally defend them.

Bottom line is that if you don't take care of the corner workers you'll have nothing better than the people that NESBA has. Without corner workers, as you said, you won't be able to ride.

Let's see how many corner workers you have for your next track day at Summit.

Your attempts at defending TPM did nothing short of confirming the bad attitude and lack of professionalism at TPM.

This is a public board.  Last time I checked this was still a country where people could speak their minds about bad experiences.  I don't think that's "immature" as you put it and judging from the other negative comments about TPM it's well founded.

So I'm sure you'll have a defense and counter story for each bad point brought to light about TPM but again the bottom line is still this; TREAT YOUR WORKERS RIGHT OR YOU'LL BE STANDING AROUND WONDERING WHY THERE AREN'T BIKES ON COURSE.

Will, I missed this one. We do treat our corner workers right. We pay the most out of all the orgs that we know. The entire crew was invited and welcomed to our party Sat night, free food and drink for the crew as well as everyone who was there.

We normally hire corner workers that are either our own, or from summit point.

We did not, and do not mistreat corner workers. As you said, if we did, we would not have any for our next day. well we have been running track days at summit point for 5 years or more.

You are missing the point. I am not trying hard to call someone out, but Chris' complains are somewhat unfounded, and I do not see Chris as being professional in his responses to TPM. I am more than glad to forward you the entire correspondence to you if you care to know. As quoted above, he made statements that are questionable to his credibility to him being a corner worker.

again, it is not about TPM and corner workers. It is about TPM and chris, and how he felt mistreated.

I will also be more than glad to get feedback from other corner workers that day, that no one else felt mistreated.

Ask the pit marshalls that day. Ask them did I bust my ass working that day, and did we treat them right.

Ask did he compliment on how we treat them as a work crew and they will come back and work for us again anytime.

Just ask. This whole thread of accusation is UNFAIR. and I am sticking to it.

ASK!!!!

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

Someone pass the popcorn. This is getting good.:D:D ;D

[castle228]

No, I will take care of this, I have nothing to hide in what I said to Team ProMotion. Here is the ENTIRE thread of e-mails back and forth from Linda, Glen and myself.

FOR ALL EYES TO READ! THis is the original e-mail that I sent to sales@teampromotion.com.

Glen, good day. My name is Chris Astle and I worked Turn 8 @ Summit on Sunday and my girlfriend Tina worked Turn 5.
 
The reason for this e-mail is to express my concerns, opinions and thoughts about working for your organization as a cornerworker on 7/4. I am going in my third season as a cornerworker. I am an Associate Safety Director and cornerworker for Mid-Atlantic RoadRacing Club. I have worked ReDuc Sportbike Assoc. trackdays. I am AMA Pro Marshal Certified. I have run Race Control for CCS. I love roadracing and love being on the track. I am a kick-ass cornerworker who gives my all, whether its a track day, practice session or race event. I have not seen it all, but damn close.
 
On Saturday, Tina and I were on our way to visit my brother in Inwood, WV (not even thinking about the track) and decided to take the scenic route. When I drove past Summit and saw bikes, I had to pull in and check what was going on. I arrived in the pits and saw Keith Landis and Andy Curro working Pit Out. These guys do A LOT of stuff with MARRC and are both friends of mine. It didn't take me long to learn it was a track weekend for TPM. I immediately inquired with Keith to the status of cornerworkers....Were there enough? Did he need help?. His answer to me, "We're losing 2 cornerworkers after today. One will be participating on the track and the other can't work." My passion for bikes and a willingness to help out a friend in need had me conjuring up ways to get back to the track on Sunday. I told Keith that I would talk to Tina to see if she would be willing to come back and work with me since it was a holiday.
 
Sunday morning, my alarm went off at 5:30, and Tina and I prepared ourselves for a day at the track. Through the torrential downpour on Route 7, we arrived @ Summit around 7:30. Keith instructed me to go find Linda in the registration room to sign in. When I walked in the room, I attempted to introduce myself and briefly explained why I was there. Linda asked if I was a "BSR person" and my response was no and that I was a friend of Keith's. She then told me, "Well, you'll have to talk to BSR if you're not on the schedule" I then tried to further explain that I was a friend of Keith's and he told me yesterday that 2 cornerworkers were being lost. She still insisted that I talk to BSR...at which point I turned and walked out of the room and proceeded back to the tower at Pit Out. Linda came over a few minutes later and began talking with Keith about the issue of Tina and I being there and that we weren't on the schedule and that she probably couldn't use us. After some discussion, she turned and walked away with no resolution. No thank you for coming out anyways No hang out and lets make sure that we can't use you. At that point, I was ready to get back in the car and head home for a lazy morning in bed. Keith persuaded Tina and I into hanging out for a couple minutes. About 15 minutes later, Linda came over with the sign up sheet and asked us to sign in. Her attitude came off that she wasn't really happy about it, almost as if we were an intrusion and an inconvenience to her. She didn't smile, she didn't make it a point to meet us...even though we were going to play important roles with TPM out on the track. WE FELT NO APPRECIATION FROM TPM! If it weren't for Andy, Keith & Terry.....Tina and I would have been long gone. They made up for Linda's lack of appreciation.
 
At lunch, the majority of us cornerworkers ate in the cafe....no big deal. But what botherd me, we had to come out of our own pockets for lunch. Yes, we are compensated......BUT IT'S NOT CASH AND CANNOT COVER THE EXPENSE OF LUNCH THAT DAY. We as cornerworkers render our services to you......PAY US FOR OUR SERVICES THEN!  Not 5 days later with a check!!!!!  Also, No "thank you". No "how's it going out there?" No "is there anything you need?" no "do you have water?"  NO ONE FROM TPM CAME TO CHECK ON ANY OF US AT ANY TIME!
 
I also had the pleasure of watching a dozen or so riders and control riders at the TPM trailer during lunch eating food off the grill. Every other organization I work for either cooks or buys lunch for the cornerworkers. Again, a feeling a not being appreciated.

[castle228]

At approx 4:10, Glen, you blew your engine in T8 leaving a nice oil spill up the back straight. While examining the situation, I tried to introduce myself to you, to which you responded, "My name is Asshole." Well, yes, I already knew that......but for you to respond to me like that and not follow it up with a real introduction was quite rude. Yeah, I know, you felt bad for what happened.....but don't be rude to me. I even covered myself with kitty litter and helped Harland with the cleanup. Did anyone else help out? Nope.....just walked up and down the track. The bike could've been taken care of quicker. I think Harland and I were done on track BEFORE the bike was even loaded into the crash truck. WHAT'S THAT!?!?!?!
 
After the cleanup, there was talk of reserving the track for an extra hour because of the mishap. Keith made a request over the radio asking if cornerworkers could stay. WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!    You want us cornerworkers to go out of our way? To give you more time with no additional compensation? To give you more time when we have received nothing thus far? To give you more time when I had to pay for my own lunch? To give you more time when Linda's attitude was less than desirable? To give you more time on a holiday? You get the point. I was done. The damage had been done. I had zero interest in helping out any more.
 
Question: If the oil spill would have happened because of Joe Schmoe's bike, would you have done the same thing by extending track time or would you have called it a day?
 
Tom Warsing was delivered to Turn 8 to relieve me. I hopped in my car and proceeded over to Turn 5 to hang out with Tina since bikes were on course and no one had arrived to relieve her yet. Linda showed up a few minutes later, pulled up to the hot tub, opened her car door, poked her head out and said, "You can't stay?!?!?" My response was "No, I'm sorry". She then got out of her van, closed the door with a slam and told us to get down out of the tub. Seeing as there were BIKES ON COURSE AND IN THE TURN, I told her to come up into the tub first....in case something happened. When she got up in the tub, I asked her if she would like me to return the radio to the pits or leave it. She RUDELY replied, "Just leave it here."
 
What I have failed to mention thus far, I have made two attempts to e-mail Linda prior to this past weekend's event. Once in late 2003 and once earlier this year to let her know that I was interested in working the TPM events @ Summit. Her responses BOTH times...you need to contact BSR. I explained that I was a MARRC cornerworker and I had lots of experience with Summit, but that didn't seem to matter.
 
TPM now has 3 strikes in my book. I am thoroughly disappointed.
 
Glen, as a cornerworker, as someone who loves motorcycles and roadracing, as a member of several different racing organizations, as someone who is willing to go out of their way, I urge you.....TAKE CARE OF YOUR CORNERWORKERS! They allow YOU to do what you do. Be nice to them. Get to know them. Ask how they're doing. Ask if they need anything. And when there's an extra person in a hot tub, if they're there to help out, don't make a big deal out of it. That was my brother in the hot tub with Tina in T5 when Linda was asking who the 2 people were. He has been with MARRC longer than I have and is just as experienced as myself or Terry Reese.
 
I have gone out of my way to assist your organization...and have had nothing but bad experiences each and every time. I'm done.
 
Chris Astle

DISCLAIMER: MY THOUGHTS, OPINIONS AND SUGGESTIONS ARE THOSE OF MY OWN AND DO NOT REFLECT THE VIEWS OF ANY OTHER ORGANIZATION!


That was the first e-mail sent to them...now, for their responses.

[castle228]

Original Message-----
From: Chris Astle
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 1:48 PM
To: sales@teampromotion.com
Subject: the straw that broke the camel's back....

From the main page......

"Party with Team Pro-Motion at Summit Point July 3rd and 4th as we celebrate the holiday and more importantly our best lap times!!!! Enjoy an array of BBQ food and drink which will be ON THE HOUSE! Bring your own bottle and live it up as we light up the nights sky with our own fireworks display. You know your living it up when you get to ride on the track and party with good friends."

Yeah......on the house for everyone EXCEPT the cornerworkers.

http://www.teampromotion.com/tpm.php?page_id=feature_051004  "The team's investment into rider safety will continue and will remain a top priority." This is where the injustice lies.......TPM doesn't consider cornerworkers an "investment"????? Nah......air modules.   Friggin incredible! This explains the mentality of the staff.

-----Original Message-----
From: Team Pro-Motion [mailto:sales@teampromotion.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 7:32 AM
To: Chris Astle
Subject: Fw: the straw that broke the camel's back....
Importance: High

Linda,

If you would please forward this to the person named Chris who feels that we don't care.

What the hell are you talking about.  Man you are a very upset person to even think that the cornerworkers aren't included as many of them ate and came over and took charge of their own lives.  Sorry but I can't change a person of your nature especially one who would even think that TPM doesn't care.

Please don't bother (but of course you wouldn't anyway) taking any more of your valuable time getting paid to work for TPM as we wouldn't want you to spend one minute with an organization who doesn't care as you say.

With utter and complete disgust, I feel for you man.

The big bad dude that doesn't care,

Glen

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Astle
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 10:25 AM
To: 'Team Pro-Motion'
Subject: RE: the straw that broke the camel's back....

Linda and Glen, there seems to have been a break in the lines of communication. On Sunday, ALL (and I mean all...including PA Posse) cornerworkers bought their lunches @ the Summit Point Cafe and ate at the cafe. I heard nothing from anyone indicating that I, or any other workers, were invited to the TPM grill for lunch. I also asked Keith and Andy what the deal was for lunch and both of them told me "We have to buy our own." I thought there was no need to second-guess those guys.....and it's not in my nature to go around the pits looking for handouts.

My e-mail to you indicates that I have "nature" issues? That I don't take charge of my life? If that's the case, I would have never shown up to cornerwork....much less to take 2 hours out of my day to send you an e-mail about my experience.

-----Original Message-----
From: Team Pro-Motion [mailto:sales@teampromotion.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 5:14 PM
To: Chris Astle
Subject: RE: the straw that broke the camel's back....

The Marshals were invited to our open house Saturday night only. We had some food left over, not much, and called all coaches to the trailer as we had several new staff members we wanted to introduce around. No one other than TPM staff and their spouses was invited to that. You are making a total fool of yourself on the CCS board and elsewhere. If you are trying to damage me the opposite is happening because no one would ever want to hire anyone as problematic as you and your friends.

Thanks,

Linda Rabb
General Manager

[castle228]

----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Astle
To: sales@teampromotion.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 5:55 PM
Subject: RE: the straw that broke the camel's back....

I still stand behind the fact that:
 
A) I feel as though Tina and I were treated as nuisances rather than welcomed in when we showed up to work Sunday morning.
 
B) I feel as though TPM should have done something for the corner workers for lunch, after it was posted on the website that food and drink were on the house. If there were specific days, it should have been mentioned. If it wasn't all weekend (which it was posted that way), it should have been clarified....instead, it was misinterpreted.
 
C) When I informed control that I couldn't stay, a simple "Thanks for coming out today.", from you Linda, would have been nice. Instead, I felt like I got a snotty attitude when you relieved us in T5.
 
Neither of you know anything...ANYTHING about me, who I am, what I have done or what I'm capable of. And for either of you to sit back and say the things to me that have been said, goes to show the lack of professionalism of the club.
 
Once my check has been received and cashed, I would like to wash my hands of this whole ordeal and forget it ever happened. I may have over-reacted by posting what I did on the CCS board, but its history. I am ceasing from any further responses to that thread.
 
I know that TPM may be a good organization, but I have yet to be proved otherwise and stand my ground that overall, the club is unprofessional, senior management is unprofessional and that you don't give the cornerworkers what they need.

-----Original Message-----
From: Team Pro-Motion [mailto:sales@teampromotion.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 2:27 PM
To: Chris Astle
Subject: Re: the straw that broke the camel's back....

The  party was Saturday night and you were not even there but the scheduled Marshals were and had a great time.
 
You were nusances from my perspective as you were not needed as the track was staffed and I had to pull my marshals from our club to make room for you since you showed up unknow to me. Keith had the schedule and he made a mistake when he told you 2 from Saturday were leaving. Because. They did leave but I had 2 others scheduled. I was gracious enough to pull my people, who I had to pay anyway mind you, so you would not have wasted your time in coming. Stupid me! I should have simply asked you to leave and spared myself your continued and insufferable boorishness.
 
Regarding relieving you. I am general manager of Team Pro-Motion and just had to deal with a huge mess and then hustle to relieve you  who would not stay out of spite because we only pay you $75 per day and do not provide lunch. Oh we are terrible. Not to mention paying 2 on that station for pitys sake.
 
I am blocking your e-mail now as I will try everything to never hear from you again.
Thanks,
 
Linda Rabb
General Manager

[castle228]

Goosfrabba.....goosfrabba.......

Dafan....I was fine with you UNTIL you made the above statement. NOWHERE...AND I REPEAT NOWHERE did I threaten TPM, Linda or Glen personally NOR did I make the statement above. That quote is completely made up. As you can see....I posted every single e-mail that was exchanged between myself, Linda & Glen.

I am not one to threaten.

Get a life....don't quote the unstated....because it just might come back to haunt you....sometime.

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

$75 is really quite generous.  Almost $5. 25 per hour!  WOW!  What is the minimum wage these days?  Sorry.  Not meaning to complain about the money, because money is always good, no matter who you are.  But let's be real.  Even at $5.25 an hour, corner workers are still volunteers.
This whole thread does not surprise me one bit.  For many years, I worked SCCA corners for NO MONEY.  Hell, we had to pay a membership fee for the PRIVLEDGE of corner working.  I could fill ten pages with my complaints about SCCA, but why?  Here is my point.
SCCA has been losing corner workers for years.  Why has SCCA lost workers as CCS has gained them?  Is it about $50 a day, or even $75?  NO.  It's about how the org treats the workers.  Yes, corner working is a hobby.  At free, $50, or $75 a day, it had better be, because a guy could make more money mowing lawns.  Experienced workers are priceless.
It sounds like what happened here was a miscommunication at first.  It's happened to me.  I show up to a test day at Blackhawk, and Cindy already has enough workers.  OK.  So I work for free.  But Cindy apologises for the miscommunication, treats me like gold, gets me fed anyway, and in the end decides to pay me when I had agreed in the morning to work for free.  I felt appreciated.  That was worth far more than money.
It seems like Chris did not feel welcome or appreciated, and it sounds like this is the root of his gripe.  For him, things started badly and got worse.  At any point, Pro Motion could have extended an olive branch, but instead this has turned into a war.  What I read here is a complete lack of respect for the value of corner workers, and an unwillingness to be even slightly diplomatic.  I'm not impressed.

[EmerWil]

I don't understand what NESBA has to do with any of this but since you took it upon yourself to make such an absurd comment please allow me to respond.

Are you saying that NESBA uses CR's that are not at the same level of qualification/experience as TPM?  I know NESBA has utilized volunteers on a very limited basis in certain situations, mostly at Pocono.   The fact is that NESBA utilizes the EXACT same CR's and safety crews that the AMA does at tracks such as Brainerd, Barber, Road America, Road Atlanta, and VIR.  NESBA also uses the same CR's and safety crews as CCS, CRA, and WERA does at the other tracks as well.  

From my experience your comments are unwarranted and have no basis in reality.  You are incorrect in insinuating that NESBA employs inferior CR's at its events - completely wrong.  

I can relate several instances at Summit Point where we have had to call on our net for an ambulance for a crash on the Jefferson that the NESBA corner worker either didn't see or didn't know how to respond to.

I have personally WATCHED at Turn 3, a worker for NESBA on the Jefferson have a bike go down, walk onto the track with his flag, with bikes moving at race speed, to cross the track and check on the rider.

I would like to modify my statement regarding NESBA workers to specifically address workers that I have personally seen on the Jefferson Circuit at Summit Point.