Team "Pro"Motion?

[r6_philly]

Dafan I know who you are and I know you are a stand up guy.  You took this as an attack on you (or so it looked by your defensive responses).  This WAS A COMMENT ON LINDA.  

As far as you not being an employee of TMP you are listed on their website under the STAFF PAGE as "Marketing Director/ Web Development" and "Race Support".  That sounds like an employee to me.  

This will be my last post regarding this issue.  Linda Rabb is unprfessional and needs to work on her communication skills and I will tell EVERYONE I talk to how unprofessional Linda Rabb is.  

I am really not doing marketing stuff anymore, so I should do my job and update that huh lol I know who you are too and you have been very nice to me each time I went to that little crappy hospital  :o thank you!!!!!!!!!!!

ok, I will not defend linda, she is how she is, and I aam not going to make excuses for it. But please, contact the president if you have more issues, he will more than willing to listen to your complaints.

But again, please do not relate unpleasant experiences with Linda to unpleasant experience with TPM, because the rest of TPM has a lot to offer our customers and people do have a good time most of the time, believe it or not.

I don't think I have ever treated anyone wrongfully when it comes to TPM affairs that I have been involved with, I have taken my bike apart quite a few times to lend people parts so they can finish their day, I feel like I, and most of us, treat everyone with respect and help in anyway we can.

As a org? one guy crashed sun and was taken to the hosptal, we loaded his truck and drove to the hospital at 9pm on july of 4th because I didn't want to leave his stuff at the track (well it would hard to get back there if he got released). I think we treat our customers with respect and consideration most of the time and try to do it right. sometimes, someone doesn't do a good job, but we always try.

If you want to say I am an employee, fine, then let me say, I was personally upset with the comments because I know it does not hold true all the time. I hate to have 1 person reflect bad on our org, but it is not all like that. Ok if you want to consider me to be a part of TPM then I say I never treat people like that, so please let me reflect what tpm has to offer too.

and LAR, please don't call me unprofessional, I wasn't trying to be. posting on a message board doesnt need to be professional, and I am not going to pretend to be. I represent myself here.

[castle228]

ok, I can clear this up for you. you mentioned a couple of times "several persons in charge" there is NO several person in charge. If you weren;t on the list of cornerworkers, then you need approval of the person who does pay the corner workers. I appreciate that you came and helped. But if you weren't told by the person who make up the list, then you are not on the list and she could have rejected your services, if we had enough people.

but most importantly, I was upset to see you equate your exprience with us to how we *always* treat corner workers. If one person had a bad day, that means everyone always have a bad day? I am again sorry you had a bad time, but everyone deserve a benefit of the doubt, and to see everyone else who has never been to a TPM event to chime in and say negative things, it wasn't cool. I don't really care what you think of me, but I am going to come and defend, not because I work for them (I do not really have anything to do with the trackdays, I am not even a CR anymore, I just ran the crash truck because they needed someone) I just feel it is not right.

We had a great time Sat night with some of the corner workers, and I didn't know of any one of the rest had any complaints. I thanked everyone who helped me load up bikes, and I wasn't rude to anyone, why can't that be a indication that it is only one person who was treating you wrong, and not everyone gets treated wrong everytime?

I guess the whole point is to not paint an incomplete picture of the whole org based on one person's experience one day. Can we do that?

as much as I complaint about CCS things here, I never complained about it on another board. This is a CCS board and I feel it is the right avenue for that.

That's fine, if TPM didn't need my services, all someone had to do was say, "Chris, ya know what, we really appreciate you coming out but we are fully staffed. You're more than welcome to hang out if you want, or even help someone in a turn, but you will not be compensated."

Dafan, in your first response to my post, you referred to yourself and TPM as "We" and "Our", therefore would give the impression you ARE part of TPM and an employee...plus you are listed on their site as an employee. I never made a personal attack against you or said anything derogatory towards you so you shouldn't equate this as an attack against you.

Also, I never said TPM "always" treats their cornerworkers this way. I was making a point about MY experience during one specific day.

FYI, I sent multiple e-mails to multiple individuals @ TPM and all responses so far have been to "not sign up again" and that I have "nature issues". :P  And one of those responses came from the President. I tried, man.....I tried.

Part of my beef is with Linda's attitude....and it DOES reflect on TPM as an organization, especially during an event that TPM is conducting and being in a position of "authority" that she's in.

I am going to cease on any further posts on this subject. My concerns have been expressed to TPM and also on here. I had a bad day and made it known.

[r6_philly]

well sorry, I was tired to type TPM... maybe I should have typed they... well never mind, I did say we or us, but I was speaking out of my personal feelings.

if you got response from everyone that said "not sign up again" I don't actually believe that should have been a good/right response. So I am going to take this issue up and see if I can get anything out of it. I am not the power that be, but people do listen to me sometimes.

Again I am sorry you had a bad time, but I would like to see people *ok* (doesnt have to be happy) with how things were than bash TPM elsewhere. So please, I will see what I can get out of this.

but for everyone else that chimed in, please, its not a bandwagon, and unless you corner worked and had a bad time and want to say something, I am going to bash you senseless  ;D

And Eric, airfence, don't blame me, or TPM, CCS/FUSA can stand better organizing and planning. and for the last time, no matter where TPM is going, someone can set up the airfence at summit, if arrangements are made BEFORE the event. so don't act like TPM made announcement about the airfence then no no can use it. Its there, book it.

[Lee]

I would just like to say that I have been riding with TPM for 5+ years now and I LOVE them.  I've watched the club grow, and memebers come and go.  Sure my oppinion might be one sided... But I don't care because it seems this post is running that way...

I've riden with NESBA in the past and Track Time Sports Club (whatever name it is)...

They are all great organisation.. but I always come back to TPM, they are my family now....

I now have the pleasure of teaching new riders on how to ride the track.. It's the greatest experience and have recieve lots of emails of thanks...

Over the past 5+ years of track riding I've seen each club take there LUMPS with silly posts like this.  Hey, not every club is for you.. It's fine, but if you are on the track with me or corning for me.. I would like to say thank you.. Thank you !!!!!!

-Lee Rubin Coach Number #9

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

My credentials:  6 year racer, 15 year corner worker, 1 year paid professional pit crew.  Also, the first 18 years of my life I was a pit rat for my dad in SCCA car racing.

My opinion:  Good, experienced corner workers are the most precious comodity in racing.  Not every organization realises this.  CCS pays $50 per day and a free lunch.  How many people would work an outdoor job for a 14 hour day in a high-risk environment for $3.50 per hour and a crappy lunch?  Quick!  Let's see a show of hands!  Now let's figure in the worker's travel expenses...
Good workers will have a yellow up before your @$$ hits the ground.  Bad workers won't notice when you disappear into the shrubbery.  Hopefully, someone will eventually notice you never loaded your trailer and go looking for you the next day...
Anyone who disrespects the corner worker should be banned from racing.  Injury, illness, fatigue, sunburn, windburn, frostbite...  These are the pay most workers get.  That and a thumbs-up from the riders after the race.
 I know nothing about the events described in this thread, so I will not make any comment about them.  But if ANYONE out there starts making out like corner workers are lazy, spoiled, or do it for the money, I WILL be looking to continue the conversation face-to-face!

[MELK-MAN]

I sit here and read this thread and can only imagine that more then half of the people replying negitive posts about TPM has probably never even gone to a TPM event. To say they are not professional is completly off base. Go to an event first before you comment. You will see at any TPM event there are more "professional services" provided then any other club around, wether it is airfence that no other club provides, to tire changing, parts, and even a race school that is available, something not many clubs offer.

You can b!tch about not getting lunch, (which aparently it was there for you) You can b!tch about being "mistreated" that happens and I am sure it wont be the last time either. But you know what you are getting in to when you came to corner work. You knew you werent on the list i assume they had to fit you in and you are getting PAID to corner work.

You dont have the b!tch about who oiled down the track. Heck it could have been a beginner or an expert racer who did it, but apparently you wanted to make your little rant more eye catching by saying it was the club president. Fact is it dosent matter who oiled the track down you just had to make your point .

Sorry you had a bad experience, but the fact is for every one bad experience with the club there are about 150 fantastic experinces with TPM that no one posts about.

personally, i think a track club president SHOULD know better than to continue driving on track rather than get off right away... a beginner is... well, a beginner..

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

My credentials:  6 year racer, 15 year corner worker, 1 year paid professional pit crew.  Also, the first 18 years of my life I was a pit rat for my dad in SCCA car racing.

My opinion:  Good, experienced corner workers are the most precious comodity in racing.  Not every organization realises this.  CCS pays $50 per day and a free lunch.  How many people would work an outdoor job for a 14 hour day in a high-risk environment for $3.50 per hour and a crappy lunch?  Quick!  Let's see a show of hands!  Now let's figure in the worker's travel expenses...
Good workers will have a yellow up before your @$$ hits the ground.  Bad workers won't notice when you disappear into the shrubbery.  Hopefully, someone will eventually notice you never loaded your trailer and go looking for you the next day...
Anyone who disrespects the corner worker should be banned from racing.  Injury, illness, fatigue, sunburn, windburn, frostbite...  These are the pay most workers get.  That and a thumbs-up from the riders after the race.
 I know nothing about the events described in this thread, so I will not make any comment about them.  But if ANYONE out there starts making out like corner workers are lazy, spoiled, or do it for the money, I WILL be looking to continue the conversation face-to-face!

Bravo!:D:D

[EmerWil]

My credentials:  6 year racer, 15 year corner worker, 1 year paid professional pit crew.  Also, the first 18 years of my life I was a pit rat for my dad in SCCA car racing.

My opinion:  Good, experienced corner workers are the most precious comodity in racing.  Not every organization realises this.  CCS pays $50 per day and a free lunch.  How many people would work an outdoor job for a 14 hour day in a high-risk environment for $3.50 per hour and a crappy lunch?  Quick!  Let's see a show of hands!  Now let's figure in the worker's travel expenses...
Good workers will have a yellow up before your @$$ hits the ground.  Bad workers won't notice when you disappear into the shrubbery.  Hopefully, someone will eventually notice you never loaded your trailer and go looking for you the next day...
Anyone who disrespects the corner worker should be banned from racing.  Injury, illness, fatigue, sunburn, windburn, frostbite...  These are the pay most workers get.  That and a thumbs-up from the riders after the race.
 I know nothing about the events described in this thread, so I will not make any comment about them.  But if ANYONE out there starts making out like corner workers are lazy, spoiled, or do it for the money, I WILL be looking to continue the conversation face-to-face!

<getting up off the floor>

Wow.. what a great post.  It's good to see people who praise the workers.  If you'll graciously allow me to put on my MARRC hat for a second i'll put my "club" two cents worth in.

I have been with MARRC for 4 years now.  I worked the turns for 2 years and I am also the club Secretary as well as the Food Committee Chairman.  I am responsible for feeding, hydrating, and the general gastric care of the MARRC workers.  I do this because I want to.  We don't get paid.  We are out there for the love of the sport.  Because we don't pay our workers we have to make sure we are taking care of the workers as well as we possibly can.  If we don't, we won't have workers.  I take great pride in the roles that I do for the club and I don't do things half ass.  I either do it right or I don't do it.

Some people seem to think that it's ok to just do an "ok" job.  And that it's ok to personally attack people when they point out "shortcomings" in their program.  

So in a nut shell workers have a different perspective. And as K3 so clearly pointed out the workers sometimes get the short end of the stick.

Just remember.  We, the corner workers, are there for the racers.  We are there to provide the best possible SUPPORT to allow you, the racer, to ride harder and ride faster than you would ever think of doing when we aren't there.

Please don't make us feel like jackasses for caring enough to say something when we see something that isn't right.

Will

[fightinflames]

TPM,
  i have to say after reading this post i can't believe you as a org. or certain people in your org. would treat someone or a group of people this way. i myself am a cornerworker and have been for 6 years
i've worked with chris many times and to show someone with that much knowledge and experiance at Summit that type of disrespect is crazy i know i as well as a few others are at Summit and other tracks in the mid atlantic region alot through out the racing season and i have to agree with chris if i was treated like that i'd have told you all to go to hell and find a new worker or tell the racers/street bike riders they had to go home because you don't know how to treat people. i know after hearing this i won't do and of your events and i'm sure alot of people won't eaither. tell me this ladies and gentlmen what will you do when you have no workers come out at Summit or anywhere else wait let me tell you you won't have a track day. so yall think you could get off your high horses and pay some respect to those who come out even if they aren't on a list or not supposed to be there and thank them for coming . thats the least you could do.

Allen cox

[r6_philly]

TPM,
  i have to say after reading this post i can't believe you as a org. or certain people in your org. would treat someone or a group of people this way. i myself am a cornerworker and have been for 6 years
i've worked with chris many times and to show someone with that much knowledge and experiance at Summit that type of disrespect is crazy i know i as well as a few others are at Summit and other tracks in the mid atlantic region alot through out the racing season and i have to agree with chris if i was treated like that i'd have told you all to go to hell and find a new worker or tell the racers/street bike riders they had to go home because you don't know how to treat people. i know after hearing this i won't do and of your events and i'm sure alot of people won't eaither. tell me this ladies and gentlmen what will you do when you have no workers come out at Summit or anywhere else wait let me tell you you won't have a track day. so yall think you could get off your high horses and pay some respect to those who come out even if they aren't on a list or not supposed to be there and thank them for coming . thats the least you could do.

Allen cox

I would like to add that Chris was not contacted or contracted by any TPM official to work on Sunday. Chris was told by the marshal on Sat, who he knows, to "come and help out on sunday". This person does not pay the corner workers, nor make that decision.

so Chris shows up in the morning. TPM already contracted ENOUGH corner workers for the day. Sorry, TPM pays corner workers, rather well. $75 a day. So here they had a certain amount of people on hand, so should they have paid $150 extra for 2 person they did not need because Chris showed up because his friend told him so? You tell me?

So he did show up, TPM did not send him away. Rather, TPM sends the 2 PRE-CONTRACTED worker that are from TPM away.

Lunch? How about if TPM pays $70 perday and spends the $5 dollar to buy you lunch. Would that mean TPM Respect corner workers more? That would still be more than whatever that was mentioned, from other orgs.

I have read the emails Chris sent to TPM today. Because he said he didn't get good responses, so I looked into it.

Apparently Chris is most upset because

1. no one greeted him properly in the morning. Chris, you weren't on the list, I don't know how you expected to be greeted. If I showed up at my job on sunday morning and expected to get paid $75 even though I wasnt supposed to be there, how would I be greeted? I am not defending anyone here, because I wasn't present, but apparently Chris felt that he should have been appreciated to show up to help. Yes, but TPM didn't need the help. Sorry, TPM hired 2 person from SBR, as you were told.

2. oil spill. Chris was very upset because he was not going to receive "extra compensation" for staying after 5. So even though TPM decided to run past 5pm, Chris decides he had enough and wanted to leave, WHILE BIKES ARE STILL ON TRACK. If Chris feels very much for the safety of the riders, then getting paid or not, Chris should have no problem staying until 6 pm, JUST for the safety of the riders. Intead of leaving the post while track is still hot...

3. I did notice something interesting in Chris' email to TPM. Apparently Chris felt that Air Modules WERE NOT A GOOD THING FOR RIDERS.

sure Chris.

[r6_philly]

these are direct quotes from Chris' email:

After the cleanup, there was talk of reserving the track for an extra hour because of the mishap. Keith made a request over the radio asking if cornerworkers could stay. WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!    You want us cornerworkers to go out of our way? To give you more time with no additional compensation? To give you more time when we have received nothing thus far? To give you more time when I had to pay for my own lunch? To give you more time when Linda's attitude was less than desirable? To give you more time on a holiday? You get the point. I was done. The damage had been done. I had zero interest in helping out any more.

safety first? sure Chris

On Saturday, Tina and I were on our way to visit my brother in Inwood, WV (not even thinking about the track) and decided to take the scenic route. When I drove past Summit and saw bikes, I had to pull in and check what was going on. I arrived in the pits and saw Keith Landis and Andy Curro working Pit Out. These guys do A LOT of stuff with MARRC and are both friends of mine. It didn't take me long to learn it was a track weekend for TPM. I immediately inquired with Keith to the status of cornerworkers....Were there enough? Did he need help?. His answer to me, "We're losing 2 cornerworkers after today. One will be participating on the track and the other can't work." My passion for bikes and a willingness to help out a friend in need had me conjuring up ways to get back to the track on Sunday. I told Keith that I would talk to Tina to see if she would be willing to come back and work with me since it was a holiday.

Ok, TPM lost 2 workers for sunday. So TPM went to summit point and hired 2 more. And that WAS NOT YOU. If you are going to show up and work, and expect to get paid (it seems very obvious) you should have contacted whoever that is doing the hiring (and paying).

http://www.teampromotion.com/tpm.php?page_id=feature_051004  "The team's investment into rider safety will continue and will remain a top priority." This is where the injustice lies.......TPM doesn't consider cornerworkers an "investment"????? Nah......air modules.   Friggin incredible! This explains the mentality of the staff.

Chris, our opinions may vary, but PLEASE. You or any other corner workers would not have saved me, I hit that freaking wall twice. Air module would have saved my freaking pelvis, arm, shoulder, elbow, spine, and my head. You would not have done anything for me!!!! It is incredible you would make a statement like that being safety concious as you say.

So I just want to say, that there are things Chris posted, and there are things that Chris DIDN'T post. Also Chris stated

"You are going down, I am going to post it everywhere"

yes Chris treatened, and carried out his threat.

I would happy to post the entire emails, if that will show where Chris really stands...

And Chris, it was me who drove the poor guys truck to the hospital at 9PM, I didn't get home until 2am. It was not you. You wanted to leave at 5pm because we didn't offer to pay you more.

[r6_philly]

personally, i think a track club president SHOULD know better than to continue driving on track rather than get off right away... a beginner is... well, a beginner..

he did not know the oil thing until a control rider came next to him and frantically signaled him to get off the track, at which point, he went into the grass and got off the track. The oil was between turn 9 and turn 10 (never made to turn 10). It was not 3-4 turns or half the track. It was 1 straightaway.

His tire were covered with oil, had he not been going straight, he would have crashed. He didn't because he pulled off as soon as someone let him know oil was coming out.