CCS SHOULD GRID BY POINT DO ALL AGREE!!

[Dawn]

another one that ANYONE could take that offered Intermediate to Advanced instruction and was more focused on riding skills and practice.  

Visionsports Riding School I believe covers this aspect of instruction.

Dawn   :)

[pmoravek]

After taking in all the different opinions about gridding, I don't know if there is "One True Answer"
to the problem of gridding people fairly.
Take me for example. I try to pre-reg. as often as I can, but somtimes it just isn't possible. In the Middleweight Sportsman class, I'm pretty competitive on my FZR. I can usually  count on finishing in he top 5. In some of the Lightweight classes, however, I can't keep up with some of those SV's. I finish in somewhere between 6th and 10th depending on how big they are that day :o.
So what is best...points would mean I would get gridded in front of guys in LTWTSS who are faster and they will have to get around me (look out for the elbows  ;))
...or grid by order of entry which means I'd have to struggle through some folks in the Middleweight Sportsman Race that I shouldn't have to.

The only suggestion I can make is timed practices.
But that would cost CCS some bucks.
In order to make it cost effective for them...
You would have to either rent a transponder from CCS (with a hefty damage deposit) or buy one that is compatable with their equipment.
Maybe that way we could all get gridded fairly......opinions?

[skydiver19]

The argument that racers who choose only to race local events would be severly penalized by gridding by points simply doesn't hold up.  For proof, look no farther than the points standings themselves.  In each class there are normally only 4-6 racers who hit every single event.  Maybe a couple more, maybe even a couple less.  Using the Mid-Atlantic region as an example, the top 10 in points in most classes consist of many racers who only hit Summit Point and V.I.R.  Now look even closer into the top 15 of each class-- you'll find many examples of riders from other regions who happened to hit Daytona or a joint VIR race.  Guess what, even if they're 5 positions ahead of you in the points, you won't see them on the grid ahead of you at Summit Point.  The reality of the points is that a fast racer that only hits a couple tracks in his region is still going to be in the top 15 to 20 on the grid.  At worst.  And that means a start from the 5th or 6th row.  At worst.  And if some of you are as fast as you apparently think you are, then coming from the 5th or 6th row should be a breeze.

So who really is affected adversely by gridding by points ?  The racer that shows up for his first race midway through the season, of course.  Welcome.  We're glad to have you.  Now get to the back of the grid until you've paid your dues like the rest of us.  

[pmoravek]

That certainly doesn't seem like a very warm, friendly attitude!?!?

[pmoravek]

....oh, and by the way, the Red Wings are gonna BLOW GOATS this season.

[skydiver19]

Shouldn't you be working!

[pmoravek]

look who's talking. :o

[Dawn]

Work.....

The only reason why I work is to pay for my hobbies.  All of which are expensive!!!!

My $0.02

Dawn   ;)

[Litespeed]

The timed practice theory has been brought up of a few occasions but is really an invalid answer.  You would have to break up the practices to get enough clear track for everyone and some people aren't able to make it to the Friday practices which would leave them at a severe disadvantage.  I think the currnet system works fine because it's simple and you know what to expect.  Other systems may look better but none are perfect so why change?  My suggestion would be to just let everyone go for the warm up lap and first come first serve.  Kind of like Superpole for the masses.  That way whoever wants it more and is faster can have the front row.  And by the way, this is a joke....because if it wasn't discussions about the unfairness of tire warmers would surely ensue.

[KBOlsen]

There are constantly a handful of people who get lapped twice in an 8 lap race.  Most of them stay upright and people manage to get around them, but it's scary for them and it's scary for those who end up passing them on the grass!

The reason I say unlimited is because of the TL girl.  She is out there, and holds a decent line, trying to race and having fun, but she is not really able to keep up with the rest of the pack and becomes a 'target' so to speak.  This is not to say she sucks, or she is the only one, just one that comes to mind.

Thoughts from "the TL Girl" (and I won't take your comments personally, Jeff cuz I only get lapped ONCE every 8 laps nowadays! ;))...

I agree totally with gridding by performance index, and then by date/time of entry.  I waited until Friday night to enter last weekend's races and was defniitely not expecting to find myself on the same row as my "lightning-fast" mentors on Sunday.  

Okay... maybe performance index divided by the number of races???

[Super Dave]

Ok, first, Kim, you're doing much better.  Especially after coming off a good wad up like you did.  Nice job on the return.

Grids...

Ok, this is about racing.  So, regardless of how a feels they do under competitive cercumstances, this IS racing.  If you compete, and you get points, they should be meaningful.

Under the current system, someone that has a great deal of money, or credit cards, is rewarded.  Again, this is racing, so let the points determine the grid.

However, do make it easier by gridding only those riders PRE-ENTERED by points, the rest by order of entry.  I understand that some cannot attend all the series races.  As a customer to CCS, the ones that show up regularly make a bigger impact than those that do not week in, week out.  It's hard.

Qualifying would be the best option, but that would eliminate pre-entries for CCS, therefore, it would not be as financially viable.  It would propably cause costs for CCS, and ultimately the racers, to escalate.  Qualifying would be done during practice as your transponder records your laps.  Might have to have an extra charge for not pre-entering.

Entry by performance index?  Enter one race and win, you've got a PE of 1000.  Enter ten races, win nine, second in one;  lower performance index.  Doesn't seem to be the right way to go.

Schooling?  Yes, the CCS schools have traditionally only given the riders tools of safety:  flags, this is registration, this is an ambulance.  The rest is "survival of the fittest."  I taught these schools for CCS in different places for many years.  Needless to say, from my point of view, it wasn't as rewarding as I wanted it to be as an instructor, but I was happy to be someone for a new rider to go to for information.

As this sport has expanded, there has been an increase in the diversity of the riders.  Back many years ago, everyone was pretty serious about all this racing stuff.  Now, there are more "recreational racers".  It has expanded the sport, but it can make it occasionally hazzordous in the amateur ranks.  

I don't know if you can tier the system efficently.  It would be hard, and how would you devide it?  What about practice?

Back to my school...

I've made the new independent program available since 1999.  Some take advantage of it, some do not.  Some riders feel they have all the answers, and that's fine.  Those riders cannot be taught....

[dave333]

No, NO, NOO and NOOOO!  I do not agree, sorry charlie, go eat some tuna.