Why do so many new racers quit?

Started by MadXX, September 23, 2003, 11:10:13 AM

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KBOlsen

I too, started racing on a liter-class twin.  It was the only suitable bike in the garage at the time.  I can't speak for anybody else's experience, but I do believe that my learning curve has been much steeper and sharper as a result of having to manage all that weight, horsepower and torque while at the same time master braking/cornerspeed.

I have little doubt that I'd be much faster (and having more fun) now had I started out on a bike that was a little more "manageable".

It still beats not being out there at all tho.
CCS AM 815... or was that 158?

davegsxrold929r

QuoteJust like every prisoner is innocent, every bike I sell is "gently used, only on weekends"  ;)

As everyone else mentions, it takes a lot of work to make racing FUN.

It's incredibly expensive
Takes a LOT of commitment on and off track
Requires family support (if you have a family or want to keep the one you have)
Takes a special type of individual to fall down and get back up...

If you crash and it ruins your weekend, you won't last long.  If you crash and think "if I get back to the bike quick enough I can stay in the race and finish well", you'll do okay...

"bones heal, chicks dig scars, pain is temporary but glory lasts forever"..  -phuzzygnu

oh how true that stuff is ........

i fall and run to the bike thinking can i make up the time ?!?!!?  heheh  not smart but true.....

some people just do not have the devotion to stay with it ., it is also very demanding !!!

smoke

I had the worst last two race weekends ever!!!!
I am not going to give up!   NO F*****  way!!!!!!!!!

Mark Bernard

#63
QuoteI had the worst last two race weekends ever!!!!
I am not going to give up!   NO F*****  way!!!!!!!!!
Thats the spirit! Everyone has a bad weekend now and then. Keep the faith Smoke, It gets better! My worse day at the track is better than my best day at work! ;D
Mark (Bernie) Bernard
Race Control CCS/ASRA - Mid-West Region

EX#996

QuoteI had the worst last two race weekends ever!!!!
I am not going to give up!   NO F*****  way!!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately we all experience crappy, sucky weekends (or if you are us, it was three race weekends in a row).  Last year, Road America, Paul tosses it in the carosel and slides and slides and slides and then tumbles and tumbles and tumbles, leathers are shot, gloves, helmet, bike trashed.  But the most important thing is that Paul was OK (he got the nick name Gumby that weekend).

The next race weekend, never made it down.  Paul went off roading with the motor home and rolled our enclosed trailer.  Long story.....

The next race weekend, we actually made it to the track, but Paul crashed again.  After that....  It took a while for Paul's head to get back in the game.  It wasn't until our last race weekend of that season before Paul felt 'racey' again.

This year, was a totally different story.  But you know, even though last year sucked, I'm glad we did it.

Dawn   :)
Paul and Dawn Buxton

Super Dave

I leave for a few days and everything gets interesting...

First, I think Jim put this very, very well.

QuoteI could tell you why a person quits from the answers i hear ever year but that might not be the reason you quit! Racing is a sport that involves ego's and expectations and how you deal with it will determine the reason you quit. Yes in most cases you jump in head first eyes wide shut and find out your in way over your head. Any advice you get most of the time is just plain wrong but you don't know any better (not your fault)

This is racing, and sometimes there is a bit of posturing and some mind games.  Sometimes, the people that can control the games do well.  Additionally, those that don't get involved in the games, can do well.

And there is a lot of bad information out there.  Big, big, BIG problem.  Sometimes, I give out free advice...rarely.  Usually, when I do, that is the advice that is the least followed.  I'm here to help, but what people do with information...well, if their ego will allow their mind to listen, things can be easier.

am251...
QuoteLet's meet at Gateway and you can tell me why the GSX-R 1000 is a "...really bad choice for a race bike."
...not sure what to make of all this.

Yes, never met you.  Yes, I still don't think it's a good choice.  I call that one like I see it.  

I don't put out great racers.  I work with a select group of people on both sides:  racers and the sponsors of my program.  I try to get them all together.  What I do is try to get the riders to see the common denomenators that can make the whole package work.  I really don't do many licensing things for new guys, but I work with a huge number of current racers that have gotten over the ego issues of "I'm better" or "I'm different" so "I can do this this way and it will work."  Honestly, I am here to help.  It's not something that I take lightly.  It's something that I have done for quite a long time that sacrifices my personal racing performance on the track.  The return is that I am able to be involved in the personal revelations and victories of a group of racers.  That's my biggest reward.  Certainly isn't monetary.

Back to the 1000.  

I've raced with, known, and taught some fast riders.  The current crop of 1000cc in-lind four bikes are just about unreal.  (Sorry, Kim and Kris...the twins are 1000's, but they don't have the same HP as the 750 fours.)  My first student was a guy by the name of Monte Nichols.  Good rider.  Moved through the ranks, amateur, expert, did some AMA pro stuff...He actually won an AMA Pro race at Road America.  We're not talking about a CCS event, which he's done, this is the "Full Monte"  (That was the headline in Cycle News...).  So, Monte and I talked about superbikes last year, and he lit the switch.  Raced a GSXR1000, in basic production trim with a Micron Pipe, Hyperpro suspensions, and GMD work by http://4and6.com ....  A rider of Monte's caliber found it hard to ride.  Monte's not Mat Mladin or even Michael Barnes for that matter, but he is gifted in riding and reaction speed whatever.  I've ridden a 1000 too.  Needless to say, they are a handful, to put it very mildly.

 I am only expressing to you the history of racing open class bikes in club racing and the experiences we have.  If you see what I said as something else, I guess I'm sorry to hurt your feelings.

As for me plugging my school.  Well, it's something I offer.  You didn't know anything about it, and you seem amused by it, so I guess I have work to do.  The banter I do on this board is free, if I choose to even do so.  I seldom give out any information at the track except to my students exclusively.  They have taken to opportunity to work with me, and they are rewarded with that exclusivity to have me either readjust their suspension, or their attitude.  

As for refering to me second-handedly as "an old codger".  Gee, I guess you know my age and all.  I have done this for a long time, but I still have some time before I'm able to run in Formula 40.  Probably not good to come into all this with a lot of preconceived notions.
Super Dave

Super Dave


Back on track

First, thanks for all the good words while I was away.  And even from guys that haven't came to my school.... 8)  ...and riders that I want to help more...

Ok, yeah, this costs money.  Money won't buy anyone experience.  Desire and determination sometimes will not get you there.  Some just might not have the physical dexterity or reaction time to be good enough to go as far as they would like.  Knowledge will go a longer way than money.  Knowledge can be gained either by experience, or by finding someone that has had multiple experiences (that's where I come in again...right? :P) to learn from.

Expense of building motors?  Is it really relevant?  Is it completely necessary?  Jerry Rothman got like 3rd several years ago on a pretty much stock bike, sans suspension, in the AMA 750 Supersport race at Daytona.  Suspension is the key, and that is really reasonable, and it hasn't gone up that much over all these years.  I think I dropped $700 on my White Power rear shock on my 600 Katana in 1988.  Went fast on that then with stock pipes.  Won championships on my stock motored GSXR600 a couple years ago.  Now, I get my bike GMD Computracked by people I trust...I use their experience, again, so that what little financial resources I have go toward putting in good laps, a better set up, and race entries.  

But keep it simple.  It will always be the key.
Super Dave

khanson

My turn to chime in real quick.

I went from racing a stock Ducati 996 to a full on 170hp Suzuki 1000 superbike this year in AMA.

I can tell you a 1000 is a handful.  All of your problems are compounded i.e. trying to get it stopped, suspension working properly to try and harness all of that power, try running it in a little deeper into a turn and the speed is compounded exponentially compared to a smaller bike and the dreaded tire bill.

A brand new slick is only good for 20 laps before you start to spin the thing up a lot.  Superbike races are 28 laps generally and tire management was key.  I had a huge amount of seat time on mine this year and the learning curve was hugely steep.  However, I finally have the thing working well and it is a blast to wheelie out of every turn at Gingerman.  However, Jesse out ran us all on his 600 and we were getting worn out trying to handle a 1000 on that track.

A 1000 will cost tons more to race and greatly increases the "Oh crap" factor in your pants.

I raced an SV650 a few times last year in some team challenges and had an absolute blast on it.  You could race that for less than 1/2 the cost of a 1000
Kevin Hanson<br /><br />www.SafetyFirstRacing.com<br />Safety First Racing<br />847.357.1309

khanson

My turn to chime in real quick.

I went from racing a stock Ducati 996 to a full on 170hp Suzuki 1000 superbike this year in AMA.

I can tell you a 1000 is a handful.  All of your problems are compounded i.e. trying to get it stopped, suspension working properly to try and harness all of that power, try running it in a little deeper into a turn and the speed is compounded exponentially compared to a smaller bike and the dreaded tire bill.

A brand new slick is only good for 20 laps before you start to spin the thing up a lot.  Superbike races are 28 laps generally and tire management was key.  I had a huge amount of seat time on mine this year and the learning curve was hugely steep.  However, I finally have the thing working well and it is a blast to wheelie out of every turn at Gingerman.  However, Jesse out ran us all on his 600 and we were getting worn out trying to handle a 1000 on that track.

A 1000 will cost tons more to race and greatly increases the "Oh crap" factor in your pants.

I raced an SV650 a few times last year in some team challenges and had an absolute blast on it.  You could race that for less than 1/2 the cost of a 1000
Kevin Hanson<br /><br />www.SafetyFirstRacing.com<br />Safety First Racing<br />847.357.1309

K3 Chris Onwiler

Before I even get started, let me say that this is meant as friendly helpful advice, and not an insult to a beginner.  I've owned 8 racebikes since I started.  With luck, I will pick up my eighth regional championship this weekend at Gateway.  I have also finished as high as fifth at the Daytona Race of Champions.
That said, I'm only a good rider.  Some in our region have talent that makes me want to go home.  Then there are the pros...  I do have five years of racing experience though, so I say this with complete confidence.

DON'T START ON A 1000 GSXR!!!!!

I currently run a 2002 GSXR750.  The bike is quite intimidating to ride in the confines of a racetrack.  I have at times jumped on a friend's 600 and done better lap times.  The 750 requires that you spin and slide the rear out of every corner to go quickly.  Tenative is slow, overexuberant is violent, expensive and painful.  Even a great rider who can be fast without crashing will burn tires like smoking cigarettes.  20 in a pack?  Two packs, please.

Now imagine the wheelspin of a GSXR1000 compared to my 750.  A beginning racer just can't afford the tires to keep one on the track.  Plus that, a 1000 or 750 seems to be actively trying to kill you at all times.  A 600 is more of a lurker.  It waits until you screw up before it tries to kill you.  Lightweight bikes are like loving dogs.  All they want to do is play!  With their rolling tounges, wagging tails and sparkling eyes, you almost die of shock when the cur turns on you and goes for your throat.

Think of this another way.  If you race, you will crash.  If you learn Kung Fu, you will be thrown to the floor.  An evil teacher will beat and hurt you every time until your spirit breaks and you go home. (This would be a GSXR1000)  A kind master will allow you small victories and praise you.  (This would be an SV650.)  Big bikes will hurt your body and wallet until riding them becomes an excersize in fear management.  Don't get in over your head.  Start smaller.  If you are one of the talented few who can really use a GSXR1000 for all it's worth on a roadracing track, your day to prove that will come eventually.  Just don't snuff yourself right at the beginning.  
I'll be at Gateway, by the red Chi-Town Hustlers trailer.  I run expert # 333.  Stop by if you want to talk.  Super Dave may not make it, because he destroyed his Yamaha last weekend.

The frame was snapped, the #3 rod was dangling from a hole in the cases, and what was left had been consumed by fire.  I said, "Hey, we've got all night!"
Read HIGHSIDE! @ http://www.chrisonwiler.com

TZDeSioux

#70
Or you can race a 250 GP bike and get the best of both worlds. It's light and forgiving at a slow learning pace but will try to kill you if ridden in anger. I started racing on a TZ250 last year and don't regret it one bit. But speaking of quitting.. I almost quit this year after dumping 18 big ones down on a new bike due to problems at home. Sometimes people quit due to circumstances that are out of their control. You can have the funds and have the desire to race but if things aren't right in other areas.. racing quickly becomes unimportant.

As far as starting out on a 1000. I would never do it. I wouldn't even want to ride one now. I go by a strict rule. I don't ever want to race a bike that's heavier than me because I'm a puss.

Mark Bernard

#71
QuoteBack on track

First, thanks for all the good words while I was away.  And even from guys that haven't came to my school.... 8)  ...and riders that I want to help more...

Glad to hear that you are ok Dave. Are you going to go to Gateway for that "ice cream?" Or are you not going to make it?
Mark (Bernie) Bernard
Race Control CCS/ASRA - Mid-West Region