Why do so many new racers quit?

[1fastmofo]

Maybe I can add to the fire. Just kidding!  :-X

I can't speak for SD, but I'm pretty certain his post wasn't an attack on you. Dave's experience is quite obvious if you look at some of his posts. So I'll let him speak for himself on that one.

There is a kid on another board, asgrnastheycome, who has been posting questions and polls right off the flagpole. He's new. Just got his road license a year ago. Finally, some grumpy old codgers told him to take his questions and polls somewhere else. Why?

Why? As far as those other boards go, I'll tell you why new people get bashed. They ask the same questions over and over and over. They'll post polls asking: "What tire is the best?", "What bike is the fastest?", "What exhaust gives the most HP?", "Is the blue one really faster than the red one?".  ::) First questions should be about how to become a better rider, not how can I add performance to a machine that I don't know how to opperate as is?

When some of the veterans "old codgers" read that stuff over and over again, it gets obnoxious. I know, I've been on both sides of the fence on that one. This board is quite different. I'm fairly new to the CCS community, but I've been involved in bikes long enough to see things like that happen on the "other boards". That's one reason why I don't frequent them any more.

There are allot of experienced people on this board. Most of us have ridden, owned, and raced quite a few bikes out there and know allot about them and about riding and racing. So, there's allot to be learned from the people here. I learn stuff everyday, this board rocks!  ;D Give yourself a little time to get familiar with the people here.

A 1000cc bike is a bad choice for an Amateur. Speaking as one, I have no desire to race one. Do I own one? Yup. As an Amateur I'm constantly learning. It's much easier to learn on a smaller bike. Kinda sounds familiar doesn't it? I know I don't recommend a 1000cc to a first time biker, why would it be any different for the first time racer?  ;) So please don't feel insulted if any old codgers tell you it's a poor choice as a racebike. They're probably speaking from some kind of experience and are trying to help.  :)

"Why do so many new racers quit? We're bopping along having a good old time getting inot this new hobby when old codgers tell us " how it is". "

I don't think I know anyone who has quit the sport of riding yet alone racing, from what someone posted on the internet. I think most people quit because of money, injuries, or they find that it's not for them (for whatever the reason).

Let's meet at Gateway and you can tell me why the GSX-R 1000 is a "...really bad choice for a race bike."

That's the kinda of attitude that gets the reaction from the "old codgers". The new guy "boppin" along with a huge ego and a chip on his shoulder. I'll put money on it that if Dave or any of the experts or fast amateurs could make you think your 1000 was a 125 out on the track.  ;D

Hope some of this helps!

Ray

[sdiver68]

  Let's meet at Gateway and you can tell me why the GSX-R 1000 is a "...really bad choice for a race bike."              

Super Dave gave you an excellent piece of advice for free, you should take it.  And if your "lets meet at Gateway" comment is a race challenge, where do I get in on the betting? ;D

Another good reason a 1000 is a bad bike to start on?  You are only able to enter 3 races per weekend.

[Chef]

Hey Am251,

 Super_Dave is one that you want as your friend, and one who will lead you in the CORRECT direction.
I am giving you emotional and drama free conversation here, or you can say MY opinion.... may not matter to you, my opinion or the next, maybe not even Super_Dave's, but we wouldnt want you to waste time, money or injury with a bike that will demand time, money and hopefully NOT injury....

the thing is, with such a big bike, with such horse power and "demand" for breaking distance, and focus...   IT's REALLY tuff for experts and Pro's to make fast laps on "monster" horsepower machines...

DONT mistake us, really tuff, doesnt mean that you wont be able to SHOCK :o a lot of people, you can call it possible, as I do, ...... However...
RoadRacing is WAAAY more about turning and corner speed rather than straightaway speed/pull/power..... you will hear about many experts going from middleweight class to lightweight classes due to the difficulty in riding as fast as a middleweight can go....
in other words, you'll be able to go fast on a lightweight than a middleweight, and of course a heavyweight, which is a 750, but youre wanting to start out in Formula Extreme...... we're not knocking you, cuz we all have a thought pattern and ego's too, but if you are going to be aiming at getting good at this anytime soon, we are suggesting that you get a bike that will be easier to learn "roadracing" on, not knocking you at all, 1000 are just difficult at best,... best wishes

Chef

[251am]

  OK, I have painted a big fat bulls-eye on my back. Saying that I would meet Dave at Gateway was not a challenge for a race, or anything other than a conversation about GSX-Rs. That's it.
  MadXX- it is still a great post as part of the future of this sport lies in the answer. New blood interested in the sport to commit their time and money are walking away faster than they are coming in.
  
        
      

[Mark Bernard]

Listen to Super Dave.... He's by far one of the most knowlagable racers/instructors that I have had the pleasure of communicating with. Dave.... You rock dude! This is a very difficult sport to get into. ANY & ALL information Dave (or any other "old coddler") gives you should be taken to heart. We all want you to have a great time racing and meeting new friends. But first and formost we want you to be safe on the track. Like it was said earler in this tread... HP dont win races. Experiance and knowlage is the key. Stay off the 1000's for now. When I first started racing I was riding a Sporster 1200. Bad choice I made. That bike was an eye opener. I slammed that bike on the ground more than I would like to admit. (It beat the piss out of me!) Got hurt a few times. I wish I had started on a different/smaller bike. But...My case was a little different than most. (long story) I wont get into it here. Bottom line is saftey and experiance is the key. We all want to see you succede and most of all... enjoy your time at and on the track. Listen to what advice is being given to you. It is invaluable!

[mdr14]

I don't think it should be a nature of what bike you are on, but more of " what do you want to get out of your race experience.

If you want to race 9 races a weekend, a 600 might be your choice.

Is a 1000cc bike good for a first race bike? There again it goes back to what you want to get out of racing.

A 1000 takes a lot more skill and maturity to ride than a 600. If you want to relax and have a fun racing, there is absolutley nothing wrong with starting out on a 1000. You will just have to learn throttle control  very quickly.

It is harder to go faster on a 1000 than a 600.

Back in the last century when I was an Amateur (1992), You could only race a 1000 (or big bore bike) in 1 class, that was GTO (and it was 100% legal to do so, there were no displacement restrictions for amateurs in that class from 1992 to present, prior to that I do not know, but you know what, who cares if there were restrictions, I raced against amateurs that had 1000CC bikes in GTO). So your racing options were limited. Now as an amateur you have 3 races to compete in.

If a 1000 is all you have, I say go race it. I would rather you be out there on someting than sit at home doing nothing.

[MightyDuc Racing]

I'm a first year racer this year.  I guess I am a "fast out of the box" rider.  I think most people quit because of money.  I was figuring on $500-$750 per weekend at the most with a set of tires (per what everybody told me) lasting two to three weekends.  Well, as I got faster and faster each round, I began to toast a set of tires per DAY, not even per weekend.  Then I blew a very expensive motor up.  Then I crashed a few times.   Etc, etc, etc.  While I am not the average new racer, I sure can see why somebody might quit after a year like I've had.  As far as the 1000 for a first bike goes...I decided that I want a 1000 for next year to ride along with my Duc.  I stood at the Dunlop trailer for a few minutes waiting for my tires to be mounted when a couple of the fast 1000 and 750 experts came over to get their tires.  They had a cart with 4 sets of tires to be mounted on 3-4 sets of wheels.  4 SETS OF TIRESMy immediate plans have changed to probably riding the Duc only until mid-season and then maybe getting a 600 to go with it.  I hope that answers your question as to why a 1000 sucks as a first racebike for most people.  

[banzai132]

The answer is plain and simple son,MONEY! Those who don't have enough have the most desire. Those who have it are lethargic and slow. Unless they were lucky enough to be supported well enough by there parents. Here's a little insight on how it used to be and the way it is. When I first started in '94, The parts cost to do a supersport (ccs) motor was about $450-$550 depending on type of bike. I just bought parts for my two year old suzuki to freshen the motor and the parts bill was $1000. About doubled in 10 years! In '94  $1000- $1100 would get the motor built by the race shop owner including parts. The following was assuming that valves wern't replaced which then costed about $250 for a 16-valve motor. now $350 for valves. Labor costs??! Try about $1000-$1200 to start. Wanna talk tires??Dunlop SportmaxII's went for about $275 a set for a big bike. Now, I think the 208A's (that is all they have now!) will set you back abouy $370. They are a much better tire! Entry fees.: $160 used to get you a Four race weekend. Remember 50 mile GT races? If you have been around awile you will, but chances are most of you won't. Sprint races used to be 8 laps at tracks about 2.5 miles in length. Did you notice I said weekend? That's because there were no 1 day programs back then combining am/ex in the same race. Why? It is kind of hard to do when there was 40-60 amateurs and 30-40 experts in a middleweight class! So now that anyone bored enough to read this has done so, you now will know why racing has been taking a dump in the last 5 years.

[fourandsix]

Interesting thread! This question has no one answer but thousands! I have been involved in roadracing for over 20 years and dirttrack racing for 10 before that. I could tell you why a person quits from the answers i hear ever year but that might not be the reason you quit! Racing is a sport that involves ego's and expectations and how you deal with it will determine the reason you quit. Yes in most cases you jump in head first eyes wide shut and find out your in way over your head. Any advice you get most of the time is just plain wrong but you don't know any better (not your fault) Just like any other sport 99.9% of racers will never really become a proffessional , oh yes they will enter an AMA race but in most cases they are just moving chicanes.In the mid west there have been probably only a handfull of racers that have made it in the big leagues! If new racers would just race for the fun and thrill it gives that would stick it out a lot  longer!

[fourandsix]

Oh and by the way , any racer that starts off on a 1000 is just plain foolish! anyone that would advise someone to do this is an idiot , sell the 1000 if thats what you have and buy a sv650 , even a good running 600 is too much to start out on.

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

     When I started racing in '96 it was on a new '96 GSXR 750, 1 of only a few in the midwest regions at that time. That bike was very fast compared to those I was racing against and could pass almost any bike on the straights at that time. What I found was that I had to learn incredible respect for the throttle or the back end would come around on me in a split second while accelerating out of a turn. I found that even though I was running in the top 5 quite often over the next couple years, it was more about me powering past people than having good corner speed. I know it had to be frustrating for those that I raced against who would make a great pass on me in the turns only to have to do it again after I flew by them on the straights. At tracks like BHF the fast guys on the newer 600's are often times able to beat the larger bikes. The more HP you have will make it much harder to accelerate out of the turns than the lower HP bikes, therefore the smaller bikes can get on the gas sooner and harder.

     Riding the larger bikes will give you a false sense of accomplishment when comparing your lap times to other riders on different bikes. The time you make up on the straights is offset by the time you loose by the lack of cornering speed. Racing the bikes with less than 100 to 110 HP will probably end up costing you alot less. The possibilities of new riders having crashes on higher HP bikes is very real and can be quite costly not only moneywise, but injurywise as well.

[tigerblade]

I started this year on a 1000 twin (RC51), mainly because I wasn't sure how much racing I would get to do this year and the RC was going to be both street and racebike.  Of course, I'm hooked on racing now and don't really care about having a double-duty bike.  I crashed once this year at MAM by spinning up the rear trying to get a good drive down the straight.  Otherwise, I didn't feel I was too far in over my head, but I probably would have gotten more benefit from running an SV.  Next year, I plan to have either an SV or possibly a 600.  I want to really learn and be a better rider.