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Author Topic: SV 650 Superbike classes (Winter Dreaming)  (Read 9677 times)

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roadracer162

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Re: SV 650 Superbike classes (Winter Dreaming)
« Reply #48 on: January 17, 2011, 09:33:23 pm »


do you have any data to support this?  In the regions I have raced in and watched over the past few 5 years I have felt the reduction in entries has been consistent across the board.  I would almost argue that the LW grids have suffered the LEAST compared to MW/HW/UNL. 



You are cruising for another smite, hahaha. I would love to se some imperical evidence as well.
Mark Tenn
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tstruyk

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Re: SV 650 Superbike classes (Winter Dreaming)
« Reply #49 on: January 17, 2011, 11:32:36 pm »
 :ahhh:

I bet CCS has the average numbers for each class broken down by region and by year... a good place to start would be there, seeing if one class suffered moroeso than any others  THEN we can look at the "why".

Just read the RRW article on the new 60k itailian whosawhatsit... thats pretty badass!  but nothing you couldnt accomplish with a 60k budget and bikes already eligible for the class.  take that bimota!   :biggrin:
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MACOP1104

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Re: SV 650 Superbike classes (Winter Dreaming)
« Reply #50 on: January 18, 2011, 10:25:37 am »
Once again,  LW has turned into the dumping ground for all those bikes that can not compete in a CC class that they are in, or for those that do not have enough entries to constitute having a class of their own and their own race.  I do not have a problem racing on the track with these bikes, I just do not think that they should be racing for the same piece of wood, or points.  This would not make for an extra race, just extra plaques and paperwork.  With what I heard at the banquet we do not have enough racers and or races in certain areas to make a race weekend profitable without introducing Shifter Karts and Side Car races.  I hate to say it, but this is in part due to running off those who would have raced and stayed with a reasonable LW Class.  Budget racing was killed with the new LW rules that have been introduced in the last few years.. Yes, George. You can spend a ton of money and a lot of time tricking out an old or unusual bike and get a great deal of personal satisfaction.  This, however forces everyone else to do the same thing if they want to be competitive.  Those of us who choose not to build one of these hybrid monsters are bringing a knife to a gun fight and are being told to like it.  What is happening is that many are changing racing series and this will make it even tougher to get grids to meet contingency requirements.  You now do not get tire money.  Good Job.  The LW class last year had many weekends where there were not enough bikes on the grid to get contingency because many racers left racing because of the economy and because the did not feel that they would be competitive without spending a great deal of money to keep up with the larger displacement bikes allowed in LW.  This years rule changes have made this situation even worse.  We need to be attracting more racers, not running off the ones we have.  So here is what is happening.  Catering to those who want to tinker with the bigger displacement bikes and trick them out will win the races and the number of bikes in the race will go down.  Again, Good Job.

Lots of valid points in your post.  Unfortunately, don't expect any changes.  CCS is in no postion to make a rule change that would exclude a bike from a class and cut back on revenue from less entries.  They are doing the opposite by allowing GP bikes into lightweight classes.  Before, the air cooled 1000cc guys have been the top dog in lightweight.  Wait until a 15 year old TZ250 smokes them in Thunderbike.

poppop587

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Re: SV 650 Superbike classes (Winter Dreaming)
« Reply #51 on: January 18, 2011, 11:15:04 am »
Here are the facts and figures.  Simply go back through this years Mid-Atlantic LW results race by race and look at the results.  The overwhelming majority of the time if there was a 1000 Ducati in the race it won.  There may have only been one Ducati and 10 other bikes, mostly SV's but with rare exception the Ducati won.  The races that the SV won was a race that there was either not a Ducati in the race or Dustin Watson was in the race on his SV.  Dustin is the class of the field by far on the SV and he had little success racing the Ducati's.  If you do the stats with the number of races that were entered by the Ducati's and how many they won based on their participation level, the figures are quite different than you are led to believe.  Please take a look for yourself and come to your own conclusion.  All of us can be liars, but to be a damned liar you must be a statistician.  Once again, I am not looking for them to have a seperate race, I am simply looking for them to be in a different class on the track at the same time not running for points in the LW class.  Remember that we all spend the money to race and the only thing that we get that we can hold on too or show our friends is the plaque or the championship.  Three extra plaques is all that I am asking for so that everyone has a fair chance.  Can't be that expensive.


George_Linhart

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Re: SV 650 Superbike classes (Winter Dreaming)
« Reply #52 on: January 18, 2011, 11:24:56 am »
Remember that we all spend the money to race and the only thing that we get that we can hold on too or show our friends is the plaque or the championship.  Three extra plaques is all that I am asking for so that everyone has a fair chance.  Can't be that expensive.

Fair to who?  How is it that suddenly this 1 Ducati has ruined the LW class - it has been legal for 6+ years and I suspect that it has been out there for much of the time.  The rules have been stable for quite a while, now is not the time to make bikes illegal for classes or to furtyher frament the classes.  This will just reudce contingency for everyone. 

Think this through - could it just be that  participation itsefl dropped off compared to previous years for its own reasons? Why is is the Ducati's fault that grids are down?  You are making a huge leap here in casting blame.  Its the economy - the races not racing would not show up even if they were given a 1 lap head start.

George

MACOP1104

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Re: SV 650 Superbike classes (Winter Dreaming)
« Reply #53 on: January 18, 2011, 11:44:31 am »
The Bimota, the NCR, and the $60,000 thing in Road Racing World should be performance indexed out of LWSS.  That's the only rule request I have.  I can deal with the Ducati1000ds in lwss because it is pretty heavy.

tstruyk

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Re: SV 650 Superbike classes (Winter Dreaming)
« Reply #54 on: January 18, 2011, 02:22:05 pm »
Here are the facts and figures.  Simply go back through this years Mid-Atlantic LW results race by race and look at the results.  The overwhelming majority of the time if there was a 1000 Ducati in the race it won.  There may have only been one Ducati and 10 other bikes, mostly SV's but with rare exception the Ducati won.  The races that the SV won was a race that there was either not a Ducati in the race or Dustin Watson was in the race on his SV.  Dustin is the class of the field by far on the SV and he had little success racing the Ducati's.  If you do the stats with the number of races that were entered by the Ducati's and how many they won based on their participation level, the figures are quite different than you are led to believe.  Please take a look for yourself and come to your own conclusion.  All of us can be liars, but to be a damned liar you must be a statistician.  Once again, I am not looking for them to have a seperate race, I am simply looking for them to be in a different class on the track at the same time not running for points in the LW class.  Remember that we all spend the money to race and the only thing that we get that we can hold on too or show our friends is the plaque or the championship.  Three extra plaques is all that I am asking for so that everyone has a fair chance.  Can't be that expensive.

By this rationale... I propose we make an "ed key" class.  It seems more often than not when there is one of those on the grid it ends up winning...

If I wanted racing to balanced and easy I would spent my time at the public go kart track
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George_Linhart

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Re: SV 650 Superbike classes (Winter Dreaming)
« Reply #55 on: January 18, 2011, 02:32:38 pm »
The Bimota, the NCR, and the $60,000 thing in Road Racing World should be performance indexed out of LWSS.  That's the only rule request I have.  I can deal with the Ducati1000ds in lwss because it is pretty heavy.

NCR has been classified as a GP bike only by CCS so that shouldn't be an issue.  I think the same would go for the Pierobon F042 as it is not a titled, road going motorcycle available to the general public though normal distribution/dealer channels - if anybody were to show up and race it in a SS/S class I think it would get protested.  For the Bimota, if that is your issue I think you should petition to Kevin to dis-allow them from LWSS your argument is that these are imported in very limited numbers, are not widely available and are very expensive  so they do not meet the spirit of LWSS.

George


George_Linhart

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Re: SV 650 Superbike classes (Winter Dreaming)
« Reply #56 on: January 18, 2011, 02:39:53 pm »
By this rationale... I propose we make an "ed key" class.  It seems more often than not when there is one of those on the grid it ends up winning...

If I wanted racing to balanced and easy I would spent my time at the public go kart track

No, no, no.  We should all get participation trophies, nobody gets podiums because we won't keep lap times and we should all be guaranteed our own racing class so we can each win a national championship.  I call dibs on the "fat, bald, angry banker with a trophy wife, 2 children under 5 racing a 6 year old Ducati superbike cause it ain't fair to the SV650 cheapskates" national championship.

Think of the money we can save on transponders since we will no longer keep lap times or pay attention to who wins!

Now everything is fair.  Don't we feel better?

George

MACOP1104

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Re: SV 650 Superbike classes (Winter Dreaming)
« Reply #57 on: January 18, 2011, 04:24:15 pm »
I call dibs on the "fat, bald, angry banker with a trophy wife, 2 children under 5 racing a 6 year old Ducati superbike cause it ain't fair to the SV650 cheapskates" national championship.

this statement is worthless w/o pics.  You can skip the pics of the kids and the fat bald angry banker....  the trophy wife pics will do...

quacker998

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Re: SV 650 Superbike classes (Winter Dreaming)
« Reply #58 on: January 18, 2011, 08:51:42 pm »
Hi everyone, I have been reading this post with some interest because last year - my first racing in CCS Atlantic LWt classes - I raced a Ducati against many SV's as an amateur. my Duc is a 1995 900ss - it produces 76 hp, turns like a pig and weighs 400lbs. For me this was racing on the cheap, no expensive motor builds or clever chassis changes I just added an Ohlins shock and revalved and sprung the stock, non adjustable forks and got the motor running as sweetly as I could for a 15 year old bike with 26000 miles. Of the seven rounds I only completed four due to lack of money but had a blast doing what I could. The guys that beat me in SS were riding Buells and SV's - in SB Peter and Dustin were too fast for me - both guys are just f'in good riders - if I had more motor I may have been able to keep within half a lap of them but frankly they were going to beat me whatever we were riding. Dustin's SV was superfast. Peter was going to win races whatever he was riding - we do this for fun and a few silly trophies so stop taking yourselves too seriously and you'll have more fun. There will always be - as in any sport - someone who is bigger, stronger, faster, or richer.  Coming second on an old, slow, heavy street bike that is a huge effort to ride quickly let alone fast, gives me a massive sense of satisfaction and makes me want to grid up with you guys next season - you can ride anything you want - within the rules.

SV88

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Re: SV 650 Superbike classes (Winter Dreaming)
« Reply #59 on: January 19, 2011, 04:38:03 am »
Geo is not fat (he did forget short) and his wife (while attractive) does not qualify as a trophy wife because she is older (& taller than he is). 

But seriously - here in the midwest, svs which have as much money as Geo has in his Duc are competitive with him and with an equivalent rider will generally win.  I'm told that while his extensively modified Duc puts up some impressive numbers, it's a beast to ride compared to a SB SV.

I like the idea of a spec. class where $$ are essentially taken out of the equation.  We also have classes where $$ are almost everything given that the rider remains 80% of the equation.

On a personal level, I find it interesting that I'm more competitive on my sv which is down on power compared to most other MW experts bikes compared to my 09R6 which is much closer to the average midweight - guess I need to learn to ride the R6.  If I don't get work soon, the sv will be lightly raced and the R6 parked (except for the RA and Topeka rounds) this season.
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