SV 650 Superbike classes (Winter Dreaming)

[Spcassell]

Do yourself a favor and just race a 600.  It's cheaper than building/racing a ltwt bike with CCS.  OR....
Do yourself a huge favor and just race WERA with your SV.  You won't have to deal with 100+HP air cooled 1000s 

Amen Brother...... Nail on the head.
I was going to sell my 2008 Rockwall Honda (with three motors) and get a LTWT bike. Found out I would still have to cough up some dough to get an SV that's competitive with the 1000's. That's FN crazy.

[George_Linhart]

LTWT should be the place for the budget racer to get his feet wet without spending a ton of cash.   

Why?

Seriously, nobody said racing would be cheep.  If you want an budget oriented class get an organization to create a class with rules structured around spending rather than engine displacement or some other arbitrary bike configuration.

The reality is that if you want to be competitive in the LWSB oriented clases, you really need to build a superbike.  The reason I enjoy LW is that I really appreciate the process and challenge of putting the peices together effectively I believe I can use the advantages of a superbike to anywhere near its potential.  I don't understand why I should be restructed from building a superbke just becasue you want to be competitive in multiple superbike oriented classes when you don't want to spend hte time, effort and money to build one.

I certainly could race much more cheeply and potentially be competitive in more classes with a SS legal MW bike.  However, I don't want to race a MWSS bike.  Likewise, I just don't want to adhear to SS rules because I really don't like the limitations.

George

[MACOP1104]

In today's economy, I would think a class for every potential racer would be beneficial to CCS.  The last time I checked, race entries cost the same for all racers.  The "cheap" guy on an SV or a clapped out FZR400/Honda Hawk/EX500 who enters 4 races pays the same fees as a guy who enters 4 races with his 35 thousand dollar spaghetti burner.   
The way the rules are now, CCS is turning away potential racers (customers).  You can race your big 1000s in Thunderbike, LWGP, and GT lights but I don't think they belong in lightweight SS or ltwt SBK.  Like I said in another post, they should have a sportsman class for the mentioned Hawks, Exs, and FZR400s

[Spcassell]

In today's economy, I would think a class for every potential racer would be beneficial to CCS.  The last time I checked, race entries cost the same for all racers.  The "cheap" guy on an SV or a clapped out FZR400/Honda Hawk/EX500 who enters 4 races pays the same fees as a guy who enters 4 races with his 35 thousand dollar spaghetti burner.   
The way the rules are now, CCS is turning away potential racers (customers).  You can race your big 1000s in Thunderbike, LWGP, and GT lights but I don't think they belong in lightweight SS or ltwt SBK.  Like I said in another post, they should have a sportsman class for the mentioned Hawks, Exs, and FZR400s

Wasting your time arguing with a Ducatista. Go to the nearest wall and beat your head against it. You will get more satisfaction once you knock yourself unconscious and get in a good nap.

[MACOP1104]

Wasting your time arguing with a Ducatista. Go to the nearest wall and beat your head against it. You will get more satisfaction once you knock yourself unconscious and get in a good nap.

That's ok.  I have 60 days to burn before the WERA opener at VIR...

[George_Linhart]

In today's economy, I would think a class for every potential racer would be beneficial to CCS.  The last time I checked, race entries cost the same for all racers.  The "cheap" guy on an SV or a clapped out FZR400/Honda Hawk/EX500 who enters 4 races pays the same fees as a guy who enters 4 races with his 35 thousand dollar spaghetti burner.   
The way the rules are now, CCS is turning away potential racers (customers).  You can race your big 1000s in Thunderbike, LWGP, and GT lights but I don't think they belong in lightweight SS or ltwt SBK.  Like I said in another post, they should have a sportsman class for the mentioned Hawks, Exs, and FZR400s

Ah - so change the rules and legislate fairness" around the bikes you own.  I get it now...

Unfortunately, not many Hawks/FZR400's showed up in ULSB before they let in the SV's and I don't expect that really would change so I don't expect that grids woudl get any bigger from the change you suggest.  Are the SVs staying away because they are not wining, or because they are cheep and don't want to spend ANY money?  All you would be doing is providing one more class for the stockish SVs to compete in by excluding the other LW legal bikes - how is that any more fair than the status quo and how is that good for CCS (as you are eliminating bikes and if more SVs don't show up you are not adding anything)  Couldn't you acheive almost the same thing by allowing for either LWSS or ULSB to be a double sprint every weekend by addiing it as an additional wave to another class race if all that you are tryng to do is give the SV guys who don't want to build Superbikes an extra race opportunity.  At least this this way you may get some extra entries without taking one away from the other LW bikes.  You just need to find a spot on the schedule where you can add another wave.  Maybe make it another wave after Thunderbike or maybe Supertiwns (only isshe here is you may canibalize some entries from one of those clases). 

I guess the point I am trying to make is that the changes you suggest to what has been a stable set of rules soley to benefit yourself  vs. another it is a net zero gain.  If the SVs aren't going to show up for 2 races will they show up for 3?  If we are creating a new and interesting class and have to ditch an existing class to fit it on the grid, so be it, but, your entire concept here just seems flawed to me - just like the guys with 6-7 year old 600's that want to bump down to LW just because they are not competive in MW anymore.

George

[HAWK]

just like the guys with 6-7 year old 600's that want to bump down to LW just because they are not competive in MW anymore.

George

George, there are tracks where your bike has an advantage over my SV and there are tracks where my Sv has an advantage over you. I think you know that I don't have an issue with your bike in LW but I do have a big issue with some of the bike that are petitioning or even being let into the class. Your quote above shows that whether you realize it or not you see the writing on the wall and when some of these bikes get in not even your beast will be safe.

[SV88]

I'm enjoying this thread but feeling more and more outclassed since I run a worn down stock SV (with a gsxr front end) against these SB SV and 100+ HP 330# DS Ducatis.  But then I'm slower than most of the guys so my slow bike is a good excuse for not winning.  As long as I've got competition in the LW ex. midpack and occasionally podium then I'm happy...I think that I'm going to go back to the stock sv front so that I can run lwss.

[George_Linhart]

Your quote above shows that whether you realize it or not you see the writing on the wall and when some of these bikes get in not even your beast will be safe.

Hawk, I have a lot of fun running against the really well developed Superbike SVs and the built Buells.  You have built and built a really cool bike that has its inherent strengths and at the right track it is very tough to chase down - I respect that.  I can't even  put into words how much I envy what Ed has built, it is part of my inspiration. 

What I like are STABLE rules.  I don't like advocating changing rules to benefit one group over the others.  Just like I didn't like opening ULWSB to the SV's I dont want LW To become a dumping ground for outdated MW class machines.  However, even more I don't like the concept of changing rules to elimate currently legal equipment only because some people want to win a Superbike race that  are not willing to put in the effort to build a Superbike.  As you have found, it is more than just throwing parts at it, it takes time, thought and testing to get the correct combintion of parts to handle and react the way you want to ride the bike.

I could have built one hell of a SV for what I have into my Ducati.  Heck, I was really tempted to buy Kevin's bike when it went for sale (that thing could pull me off the line and right off the corners).  I just don't want an SV.

George

[MACOP1104]

Being cheap has nothing to do with it, It's about offering classes for what racers can afford.  My arguement is the rules package for the lower HP lightweight bikes should be geared towards affordability.   Why?  because traditionally these bikes don't go thru 2 sets of tires a weekend and the lightweight class should offer a competitive grid for all budgets.  You can spend as much money on your spaghetti burner as you want, I'm just saying u should race it in LWGP and Thunderbike.   I'd even be happy with the Bimota being indexed out of LWSS. 

[George_Linhart]

Being cheap has nothing to do with it, It's about offering classes for what racers can afford.  My arguement is the rules package for the lower HP lightweight bikes should be geared towards affordability.   Why?  because traditionally these bikes don't go thru 2 sets of tires a weekend and the lightweight class should offer a competitive grid for all budgets.  You can spend as much money on your spaghetti burner as you want, I'm just saying u should race it in LWGP and Thunderbike.   I'd even be happy with the Bimota being indexed out of LWSS. 

The class you are referencing failed because nobody showed up in the days of ULWSB before SVs were allowed into the class.   The reality of the broader market is diffferent than you believe individually and if it was different then the old ULWSB rules would likely have been retained..

In terms of increasing grids, you are not going to increase grid sizes by eliumiating currently legal bikes from specific classes.  You will only reduce the grids in those races in order to make your SS  bike more competitive in a SB class.  Think beyond your narrow interst and into the bigger picture.  The reality is that you can not take a SS legal SV and be competitive beyond ULW SB and possibly LW SS.  If you are not intersted in riding a bike that is only potentially competitive in 2 classes, you can either buy a diferent bike that is comptitive in more than 2 classes or you could build a real superbike SV and be competitive in 4 classes (LWSB, GT Lights, LWGP and Thunderbike).  I guess you do have one other alternative - quit CCS and race WERA (problem solved).

In terms of the Bimota in LWSS, I would suggest that your argument should not be to change the rules to elimiate the entire configuration (and get rid of Ducati, Buell and Bimota which really shrinks the grids considerably), but ratheryou should try to argue that the Bimota is only available in relatively limited numbers at a very high cost.  You nay be able to get some traction with Kevin if what you are arguing is that these are not within the spirit of commonly available produciton bikes.  Just like NCR got pushed to LWGP because it is not a "production" bike that can be commonly titled and licensed for the street.

Personally I had no issues gridding up with the NCRs and don't see a problem with the Bimota, but then again I am not gridding up in any SS races.  I justview it as a challenge to choose a LW legal platform and build a bike that could out-perform what my competitior has bought (or built).


George

[SV88]

It's unfortunate that the LW class has become a builder's class which means that it's often more about how deep one's pockets are than skill.  i agree with Macop in that respect.  

I'd like to see a cheap spec. racing class (much like WERA's sv one) where skill alone is rewarded.  

I've stayed away from building bikes for economics, reliability (i prefer to ride a less competitive bike than wrench on a blown up SB) and the fact that I'm not that great a rider - a bigger motor won't make me win.  

There is no question in my mind that @ the LW exp. level, you cannot be competitve on a stock motored bike.  And that is a pity....  It is interesting to note that even the most skilled riders (eg Ed Key) build highly modified (v. expensive) machines.  

To me there is a lot of satisfaction to winning on less than competitive equipment.  If your bike is built to within an inch of it's life and you win - well that's pretty much expected...