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YPSB or expert?

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ecumike

Re: YPSB or expert?
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2007, 10:33:19 pm »
Should you be running in the front of amateur races,  to be expert? ...

No, just some balls.
Time to take off the panties guys. 
I think once you race enough races and you have a feel for how the racing action is, what to do, enough skill to be consistent, etc... (IE: 500 pts or whatever it is), you should get the hell out of AM.  That's enough experience.  You could be at the top of your AM races, but you're still gonna get spanked in your EX race.
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GSXR RACER MIKE

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Re: YPSB or expert?
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2007, 10:59:28 pm »
I've never won a race in my life, though in the late 90's I had a lot of 2nd place finishes both as an Amateur and an Expert. It seemed that everytime I was in a position to win something always happened, I was forced off the track by the 2nd place racer on the last lap, I ran out of gas with a lap and a half to go in a race that I was running away with (I led the entire race up to that point), I crashed from using a front tire 1 race too many, and on and on - it seemed it just wasn't meant to be for whatever reason.

In my opinion Expert status is a combination of knowledge and experience. Based on some really rough numbers I would guess I have somewhere around 15,000 race miles since I started racing in '96 - yet I will almost always be the last expert (or close). For a number of years I have not been in a position to spend the money required to go fast, yet I continue to participate in racing because I love to do it.

As Xian said, Expert status is an Honor, and it's an earned one at that. When I'm in a race with only other Experts I feel that I'm surrounded by other racers who have ability and respect for each other, who truely understand the risks involved in what we are doing. Something I've heard many times by new Experts is the comment "The biggest difference between Amateur and Expert is how smooth the Experts are while going REALLY fast". Take the last event at Blackhawk for example, on the Friday practice how many of the Amateur sessions were Red Flagged? The Amateur sessions seemed to be a crashfest while I was there, yet I never saw an expert session get Red Flagged, that speaks volumes to me.

Most racers who advance to Expert status are almost instantly faster once they do it. If your lacking confidence in your ability (knowledge and experience) then stay Amateur, if your motivations to stay Amateur are otherwise then I would be asking yourself if those motivations are truely in your best interest long term? This subject is one of the very reason's I believe there should NOT be any contingency or championships in the Amateur classes.  Amateur status is for learning and developing your abilities, if your using it for something else then your missing what it's intended for.

Most people last about 3-1/2 season's in this sport (mostly due to going broke from racing), those of us who have been around a decade or more are rare. Unless you have a plan in place which will have you racing longer than the average you may want to consider this, when you leave this sport do you want to be able to brag to people how you got an Amateur championship and never went Expert, or would you like to have the personal accomplishment of knowning that you earned an Expert racer status and continued to develop your abilities as an Expert (even if you don't win a championship)? From what I have seen people with 1 to 3 years in the sport typically dump HUGE amounts of money into getting fast without planning ahead for their future in racing, that so often is what causes them to not be able to continue (constantly buying new tires, race fuel, lots of races, etc). If you don't have any long term goals in racing then maybe getting the Amateur championship(s) is the route for you, but if you do have long term goals as an Expert (or beyond) then developing your abilities as soon as your ready to make the jump to Expert will save you year(s) in the long run instead of continuing to doubt yourself by staying back when deep down inside you know your ready to advance.

Good luck in your decision either way.  :cheers:
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Sig

Re: YPSB or expert?
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2007, 11:29:38 pm »
Great post! Really something to think about.
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RMGSXR124

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Re: YPSB or expert?
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2007, 12:02:11 am »
No comment. :cheers: (KC124)
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gntbldr

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Re: YPSB or expert?
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2007, 12:35:03 am »
a couple things were touched on as to why I would like to remain AM.

I was one racer away from getting a championship in Unlimited Superbike on my 05 600rr.  And there was no way I could beat that racer in any of the classes we raced together in.
 For GTO and MWGP I was a half step away from being in the top 3 for the season. But AM#66 took me out Hard in T6 at BFR which resulted in my second concusion in one month's time and it is a doozy.
I did well for my first year ever racing. I've only been riding on the track for not even a years time prior with Maybe 6 trackdays under my belt.

So in my book all that's a double negative or whatever you call it.

I want to stay AM so I can see if I can do what I did twice. Or better it.
Yes. I would like to see if I can win anything from it too as in contigency being as I got real close towards getting something for working hard at this racing thing. That would be cool

BUT... after reading a few replies during my breaks at work I've been pondering the white plate thing a lot.

And that's to go out there and race with racers that are more safe and calculated in their racing and not going all cut-throat like I've went through this season.
Some of the rude and down right Dangerous passes I've witnessed are just unreal.
Actually I should call them passes I should call them forces. because someone ramming their bike into mine to take my position isn't racing smart or safe.

so if I go EX it's to be in a more safe environment if that's even for real.


shieat. yeah, I should probably go expert because I have the entire circuit of experience now and I did rather well. Well enough that if I did go EX I wouldn't know one racer that would object it.

so am I being selfish to want to compare next years results with this years and possibly even do better? 
I know for damn sure that if next season I miraculously became as fast as some of the AM's that did me in with their lap times this season  I would bump myself up because that's just not fair to just go out there and dominate like there's no tomorrow because imo there's no challenge there and I'd rather go where there's a challenge.

Even down to the end of this season I was still finding racing AM was a challenge for me.
I did get better but grid positions helped with that along with the fact that I am good at starts.


ohh well. I'll have to ponder another rant later because my break is over and I have to get back to work. 
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GSXR RACER MIKE

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Re: YPSB or expert?
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2007, 02:04:51 am »
It's all relative to your personal experience and learning curve, I did 2 seasons as an Amateur, but my entire 1st season I intentionally gridded at the back and worked the whole race to see how close to the front I could get (I went straight to racing - track days didn't exist back then). Then in my 2nd season I gridded at the front and did well, but I still learned alot that season as well by racing against the fastest racers. When I went Expert I was instantly faster and running with the front group at my very 1st event, which was a big accomplishment for me.

It all comes down to how YOU feel about it, if you feel you need more experince then you gotta do what you gotta do. If you feel that your a predictable rider, and especially if your within 120% of the lead Expert in your classes, then making the jump is probably the way to go. I think pride is a big issue in racing, so many people are so obsessed with being the best immediately that they aren't willing to take a step backward to gain 2 steps forward. What I mean by that is if you feel confident in YOUR ability, then go Expert and spend a season improving and look at being ready to contend for championships the following season (as a 2nd year Expert). Nothing says you have to grid at the front for your 1st Expert event, you could always just post enter and be mid pack on the grid and see how it goes.

With your previous results you might be suprised how well you will do as an Expert, but again it comes down to YOU making the decision for yourself, only you truely know if your ready or not. Go with what feels right!  :thumb:
« Last Edit: September 26, 2007, 02:06:56 am by GSXR RACER MIKE »
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Smites are a cowards way of feeling brave!   :jerkoff:
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gntbldr

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Re: YPSB or expert?
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2007, 03:31:07 am »
I can handle it no problem.
I'd just like to have a better sense of accomplishment before I claim an EX title.

To go up right now has me feeling like the filter from AM to EX is too loose and not geared towards step by step achievement. Like it's just a "bucket" rule if you catch my drift
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gntbldr

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Re: YPSB or expert?
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2007, 03:37:50 am »
ohh, BTW Mike,  I respect your approach at racing with never being on the track prior.

that is how I handled my approach and working with yourself to start slow. It sure teaches you a bunch more than trying to remember what you did when you were going through an "oh scat" moment.
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xseal

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Re: YPSB or expert?
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2007, 10:40:59 am »
Its part of the natural learning progression. My expierence is that I was a little dejected my first year as an expert, b/c I had NO chance of running up front after having done that consistently as an amateur, was struggling in the bottom 1/3 of the pack, getting zero contingency, and had a crash trying to get up to speed too quickly. 

It took me 2 years as an expert (and a year of doing team challenge -- good move) to get where I want to be. But this was my 3d season and I was running consistently in the top 5, won a race and got half a dozen podiums. Very satisfying seeing me get closer and race with talented guys. I'm not beating them, but I'm racing with them and we have a good camraderie. I have gotten a lot of satisfaction from that. This is the first season I've felt like an "expert", working on tires and set up to do better. The longer you put off the learning process of being a new expert, the longer it will take you to be a comfortable/competant expert. 

Now my goal for next year is to run consistently in the top 3.  For me, that is better than a slew of amateur "championships."

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jgalt187

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Re: YPSB or expert?
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2007, 11:47:11 am »
Great answers! I agree with the white plate being an honor. For me however, I have only raced 5-6 times over the past two years, so I don't have a choice. I have not earned enough points or been asked to move up, so I will have a yellow plate next year. My interest in this thread is because I think that at the end of next year(full season), I will be ready. I have spent a lot of time reading, talking to experienced people in racing, thinking, and improving my skills as a rider, so when the time comes I will gladly take a white plate. I would love to win a race in the process, but if I don't, oh well. My long term goals are to become a safe/fast racer, to enjoy racing as long as I can, and build a knowledge base that I can pass on to my son, if he decides to race.

The number one reason I would jump up as soon as possible, is because riding with fast guys will make you fast. I saw this first hand in motocross. I was killing guys in novice. I would have a half track lead and crash from goofing off,  and get back up still in the lead. After getting enough points to win the championship, I tried a few advanced races. I got my ass handed to me in a gift wrapped box. lol In the off season I was lucky, and started getting invites to practice ride with some of the fast guys. I led the first race of the season for three laps in advanced before making a mistake, and finnished second. That second place was WAY better than all the 1st place novice trophies combined. Having guys, that I had no hope of beating the season before, coming up to me asking what I ate for breakfast was priceless, and worth every second of having my ass handed to me by my fast friends in practice.
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gntbldr

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Re: YPSB or expert?
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2007, 11:16:44 pm »
the more I think about it the more a lot of the "move it on up" makes sense

question though,

does it go off of "points" or "adjusted points" ?

because I have over 500 points but only 300-some adjusted points.
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GSXR RACER MIKE

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Re: YPSB or expert?
« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2007, 11:30:21 pm »
To the best of my knowldege it's still simple points like it's always been, not the new adjusted points used for overall championships.

As per the 2007 CCS rulebook:

2.2 CCS LICENSE REQUIREMENT -

A. CCS Officials will issue Expert licenses to those riders with proven
experience or ability as follows:

(4.) Any Amateur Rider who scores 400 points within a 12 month
period.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2007, 11:42:00 pm by GSXR RACER MIKE »
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Smites are a cowards way of feeling brave!   :jerkoff:
Mike Williams - 2 GSXR 750's
Former MW Region Expert #58
Racing exclusively with CCS since '96
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