Whats up with Formula 40 next year?

[digitalRoost]

I vote for 1000s for one simple reason. There aren't enough classes that the 1000 can run in. My teammate runs F40 and won the Pacific and SW regions this year. He's not even able to race his own bike in those classes because he has a CBR 1000RR.

If you keep a 1000 SS legal, that leaves 3 classes you can race in. If it's a SB, that's only 2, and one of them is GTO! At some point the "old guy" class has to consider the old guys who want to race a 1000 and don't think they can handle a 25 minute race (leaving only 1 class for SBs!!).

Ok...back to getting my butt whooped in points by the resident BSR "old guy"

[Super Dave]

I vote for 1000s for one simple reason. There aren't enough classes that the 1000 can run in. My teammate runs F40 and won the Pacific and SW regions this year. He's not even able to race his own bike in those classes because he has a CBR 1000RR.

Well, that's a good reason to get a different bike.

I'll have my H1 ready to race next season.  It's probably only competitive in a couple of classes, but I'm not looking to add more classes to an already packed weekend schedule or to completely change the nature of a class.

How about we open up Formula 40 to younger guys like it was when it was originally started.  If you were thirty-five, you could race Formula 40 with a five year old bike.  That was the formula part.

Why not just make it an unlimted class?  We could get Barney to race it on that 500cc GP bike.

Aren't we just making more and more categories for riders?  Why shouldn't the riders try to make things fit into an existing logical structure rather than try to put new square pegs in round holes.  

Can't wait for three more years to pass.  Who knows what someone will be asking for then.

[digitalRoost]

Well, that's a good reason to get a different bike.

I'll have my H1 ready to race next season.  It's probably only competitive in a couple of classes, but I'm not looking to add more classes to an already packed weekend schedule or to completely change the nature of a class.

How about we open up Formula 40 to younger guys like it was when it was originally started.  If you were thirty-five, you could race Formula 40 with a five year old bike.  That was the formula part.

Why not just make it an unlimted class?  We could get Barney to race it on that 500cc GP bike.

Aren't we just making more and more categories for riders?  Why shouldn't the riders try to make things fit into an existing logical structure rather than try to put new square pegs in round holes.  

Can't wait for three more years to pass.  Who knows what someone will be asking for then.

Ok, so what you're advocating is getting rid of the 1000cc bikes. In your perfect world, everyone would be on 2 strokes and be able to race whatever class they want. Remember, racing (especially to 40 year old guys) is a fun hobby, not a career. They don't go out and buy bikes for each class....they often want to be able to race what they have.

CCS is the only regional series I know of that doesn't allow 1000ccs in the F40 class. Ok...go off and spout about some East coast or small local series, but WERA, WSMC, AFM all allow 1000cc from what I've been told. 1000cc is pretty new to inline fours (relatively) and CCS is so far the slowest to catch up with that.

Don't think I'm standing on a soap box chanting here...it doesn't affect me either way. I just feel sorry for the guys who are not allowed to race the bikes they love.

[Super Dave]

Has racing came to the point of having minute, individual classes for everyone and every combination?

Honestly, big bikes are big bikes.  

If you have a real AMA Superbike, well, you only really have one class to race it in.

If you have a real 500cc GP bike, well, you can race it in ULGP.  

I don't think racing is much of a career to most 21 year olds, most 31 year olds, most 41 year olds, 51 year olds, and up.  

I never advocated eliminating anything, but there is advocates for changing structures to fit their particular wants.  

Generally, the exclusivity of having a 1000cc bike was recognized by the owners.  The versatility of owning a 600, and in some cases a 750, was recognized by their owners.  Now, the exclusive owners of 1000's want into F40.  That's great.

I race AHRMA and I'd like to race my 500cc Formula 500 bike in Formula 750.  But that's now allowed either.  

At some point, someone has to recognize that the rules are going to be a particular way.

If you run a 410 cid methanol sprint car, you're only going to be able to race in certain races and organizations.  1000's are like that.  They are, now, really fast, light bikes that are, still, pretty exclusive.  There has never, ever been many places for 1000's to bump into class wise.

1000's new to inline fours?  

Huh?  

KZ1000, GS1000...

If we want to moderize it a bit, we recognize these bikes as "unlimited" production bikes...not 750's...

R1's, ZX9's, CBR900, 929, 954, GSXR1100...

Anyway, I think I still build bikes to fit into classes.  I have a "supersport" bike.  So, it doesn't have slicks.  I don't try to get "supersport" changed to allow slicks.  Seems like this thread is getting really whinney and ridculous.

[Mark Bernard]

Seems like this thread is getting really whinney and ridculous.

Yes it is Dave. Thank you for saying it out loud!  ;)

[hooter31]

amazing how many people have opinions about a class they don't even race in ??? ??? the only reason i am pushing for the class to open to open class bikes is that i would allow other makes to be competitive in the class.Dave you are missing the point...the reason most want the change is because it is a SUZUKI cup race.The AMA had the same problem with the 750 superstock class,it too became a Suzuki cup race with the exception of Hayden.Funny though,when you have an opinion it's gospel but when others have a different one it's whinning.I wonder how you would feel if people that didn't race ARHMA tried to have a say in what the class rules were?Anyway i don't want to make this personal,i never even meet you ,but i do take offense to people saying others are whinning when they are expressing their opinion.

[rotoboge]

Modify the rules in F40 to HWSB, but do not allow the 1000cc 4 cylinders in this class. There should be a new class created; Unlimited Superbike. Let's keep the playing field even in F40, as one person states, "it's all about fun".   ;)

[Super Dave]

Ok, I'll STILL throw a couple more in.

Unlimited Supersport, GTO, and Unlimited Grand Prix are for open class bikes.

If it weren't for the heavyweight and middleweight bikes, these classes might not have many racers in them.

There was a time not so long ago, when some advocated getting rid of Unlimited Supersport.

However, Middleweight and Heavyweight classes florish.

Some think CCS makes a whole lot of money, but I have enough knowledge about racing organizations and renting tracks to understand the reality.

So, IF there was to be Unlimited Superbike, what are you going to run it with?  You'd have to add a space for it.  There isn't much you could add it to without conflict of dual entries or speed problems.

I doubt that the numbers of 900's to 1100's out there would make up enough to pay for the space.  I doubt that you'd have droves of 750 and 600 riders getting into the class either.  Guys have so much money, so, most are going to get into their three to six classes.  

Sportbike at the regional level wasn't hugely successful probably because guys had to make decisions on which class to enter.

So, add Unlimted Superbike, and you'd see an increase in entries by the big bike guys.  How many 1000/4's are there out there at each event?  Ten?  At $50 a crack, that's a whole $500. (ULGP $70, GTO $70, ULSS - $70 first non purse entry)  Meanwhile, you've got thirty five guys on 600's dropping good money.

So, for F40, who do you alienate?  The fewer guys on the big bikes or the majority on middleweight bikes?  I'm hearing a squeeky wheel is about all.

I'm not in any position to make rules.  You know who does that.

But if you can't even give me a good answer that is defendable to me?

You say that it's funny that I have opinions about rules in a class that I don't race in.

Well, yeah, but the only reason I don't is because I'm 37.  Otherwise, I've race the class, Heavyweight Supersport.  I've got some championships in the class some want to make it, Unlimited Supersport, while riding 750's and 600's.

Yes, I have been involved in AHRMA and seen people who don't race in a class propose rules.  Even proposals by team owners that are not racers.  It doesn't mean that the ideas aren't valid.  But you've got to sell it.

How many guys race in F40?  A decent amount.

And, as Kevin Elliott stated...

I can not see the benefit to the class, only the detriment of losing the 600 riders who make up the majority of the entries

...and that comes from the person that has the stats at his finger tips.

And, yeah, KE used to race.

[hooter31]

yes but kevin is assuming the guys on 600's would no longer race,,,i feel they would buy a 1000 and keep racing....that is my opionion.most guys that race and are over 40 are more finanically secure and are doing it for the love of the sport and will buy a bike that is competetive whatever the rules are

[r1owner]

yes but kevin is assuming the guys on 600's would no longer race,,,i feel they would buy a 1000 and keep racing....that is my opionion.most guys that race and are over 40 are more finanically secure and are doing it for the love of the sport and will buy a bike that is competetive whatever the rules are

Dude, you are crazy!  I'm lucky to be able to afford to race an 01 600 4 times a year and I consider myself to be making a pretty decent wage.

No way I am going to be able afford a 1000 and I certainly am not going to sell a 600 to race against dudes on 1000's.  I do that now in GTO and do OK as it is.

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

Has racing came to the point of having minute, individual classes for everyone and every combination?

Can I get a Formula K3? ;D

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

Dude, you are crazy!  I'm lucky to be able to afford to race an 01 600 4 times a year and I consider myself to be making a pretty decent wage.

I sold a 2000 GSXR750 at the end of this season.  I couldn't keep tires on the thing.  I'm looking for an SV to run in LWF40.  If I couldn't afford the 750, I sure wouldn't be able to afford the 1000.