Anti-Freeze at RA?

[10bomb]

To whoever dropped fluid in Sunday's SuperTwins Race at Road America:  The corner workers told us you dropped ANTI-FREEZE over half the track.  If this is not true, what really happened?  If this is true and you were actually running anti-freeze in your bike, what's your problem?  At least 4-bikes went down, including myself.  I can't speak for the others, but I know that both Dave Ebben and I had nasty tumbles.  I high-sided right in front of him because of the slippery fluid on the track – Dave joined me in concrete cartwheels immediately after I went down.  This event will certainly cost each of us well over a thousand dollars to make up for, not to mention I'll be limping pretty badly for a while.  Both of us ruined our helmets and got banged up while tumbling down the asphalt.  I know all too well that crashing is part of this sport, but when it's because of someone else's blatant ignorance of bike preparation....well that's just unnecessary and stupid.  Road Racing is dangerous enough as it is, things like this shouldn't even be part of the equation.  Sorry to vent like this, but I think my fellow racers should hear about it.  Please people, spend some time working on your machines and make sure they're truly ready for the racetrack.  If you're new to the sport or simply don't know what you're doing PLEASE ask for help.  There are hundreds and hundreds, maybe thousands of roadracers in this country..... most of them, including myself, would be more than happy to help with your bike preparation.  Knowing your bike will not only make you a safer and more prepared rider, but a faster one too.

[Chuck]

Mike Coulter #171 with MC Racing went down too.  The corner worker told him it was from the previous race!?  I had him at the grid for the restart though ;)

[KBOlsen]

Four bikes crashing in two turns.  Valuable time lost to the need for a clean-up.  Huge potential for catastrophic loss to racers (it's another thing to see your program reduced to a wad of twisted metal because of your own error or even contact with another rider...)

Because of how the rules are written, only ETHYLENE GLYCOL-based coolants are SPECIFICALLY FORBIDDDEN by CCS.

This means that you can LEGALLY run coolants that are PROPYLENE GLYCOL based.  These are the so-called "environmentally safe" formulations.  Just as slippery as the other stuff, but marginally easier to clean.

For those who are opposed to glycol-based coolants of ANY flavor, make your voices heard by the appropriate parties in time for the Rules Committee meeting at year-end.

[Steviebee]

That sucks man.
There were a number of people running the PROPYLENE GLYCOL coolant last year!  Im sure its not going to change this year.  Considering usually the first races at blackhawk are below freeaing.  

Call up Kevin E  and complain about it.  Otherwise the rules wont change.

[Jeff]

I for one run a PG based coolant, and will fight to continue doing so.

The issue is around cleanup, not around how slippery it is on the track, as water alone, or especially with ANY additive is JUST as slippery as PG or EG coolants.

Freeze up and crack an engine block while at BHF, and then come talk to me about running water...

The AMA allows use of PG coolant, because again, it's about the ability to clean it up; not about it being slick on the track (such as ANY fluid is).

The comment about "someone dropped anti-freeze on the track" is one taken out of context.  People say a lot of stuff.  "Coolant" would have been a better term, since I doubt that anyone could definitively say what the fluid was.  Hell, it could have been oil for that matter.....

BTW, which race # was super twins, and what preceded it?

[tshort]

BTW, which race # was super twins, and what preceded it?

And which turns was this in?  I had a really nasty tankslap/near-highside just after the Snap On bridge into the carousel.  Yeah, it was wet under the bridge, and yeah, people were crashing there all day.  But this was different - big rear slide, almost spit me off over the bars.  When I heard about a possible oil problem on the track, it started making sense to me, that that might have been what I hit.  I don't think it was the wet under the bridge - had been running through that all day already when this happened (maybe around race 6? not sure).

[10bomb]

I understand about the coolant issue, and both sides of the argument have very valid points.  I'm just one-sided right now because of my situation.

SuperTwins was race 7 on Sunday.  From what I'm told the majority of the "coolant" was from turn 8, through the carousel and through the bend.  Our high-sides were coming out of the bend.  It could have been down into Canada corner too, but I don't think any bikes made it that far while at speed.  tshort, you possibly did hit the same problem the rest of us encountered.  But I honestly think it was from the SuperTwins race.  I didn't go through the bend any faster than I did on the lap before the accident, and the rear tire broke loose so easily it wasn't funny.  I truly believe that whatever was on the surface was not there the lap before.  Anyway, I'm not trying to cause a huge uproar over this one stupid incident...I just wanted to stress the fact that going over your bike regularly is a good idea for a number of reasons.  I understand that a million things can happen to a race motorcycle causing it to fail in some form or another, but routinly going through your machine can prevent a lot of the incidents we see at the track.  Sorry for venting here, but I was hoping that whoever was/is responsible would speak up and let us know what really happened.  I have nothing personal against this person (unless they really were running old fashioned Anti-Freeze) I just wanted to get the true story rather than hearing it through corner workers.  This is racing and I knew very well on Sunday morning when I woke up that there was a chance I was going to crash and burn.  This is racing.  I'll see you at the track!

[smoke]

If the person was using the wrong coolent why did tech not catch it?  

Here in the MA thay ask,  get down and look, then they ask you again.

Hpoe u guys heel up quickly.

[Dawn]

FYI....

It was below freezing Thursday night.

We, being from up north run the PG based coolant for the same reasons Jeff does.

Last year by the time we got home from RA we had two inches of snow on the ground.

Dawn

[tshort]

 It could have been down into Canada corner too, but I don't think any bikes made it that far while at speed.  tshort, you possibly did hit the same problem the rest of us encountered.  But I honestly think it was from the SuperTwins race.

I meant the Snap On bridge (changed my post), so it was where you were talking about, not as far down as Canada corner.

Don't remember whether mine was before or after SuperTwins, but it sure surprised me.

Anyway, sorry to hear it got you, 10Bomb - I'd be ticked, too.  

[gpracer171]

I went down in the carousel. I went out to mid track to get a better drive out (which I had not done in the prior lap) and I even saw a strip of darker area. However, at those speeds by the time I saw it and began to question if it was oil or what, I was down. When I got up, the safety crew arrived because there was another bike down also. The safety crew told me right then that it was from the prior race. My immediately response was why in the hell did someone not put up a flag, or tell us of the potential on the grid.

I guess they were in a hurry to get races in that day and not clean up the mess. I trashed over $1000 in that turn.  I was fortunate enough to have a great crew that replaced the brake reservoir and had me back out to limp to a 6th place finish for the points (thanks guys).

As for the PG coolants, I only use water wetter and always have. I have never "cracked a block" and I race most of my racing career in the MRA (Colorado) and I know that it gets cold there also. I did not crack a head in the "below freezing" temps at RA last weekend with the water wetter.

To Jef4y. By the way, the coolant EG or PG are slicker than water, as I was not throwing it away in practice on the damp and cold track. For further proof of this, check the facts, visit the following link and see the water wetter technical info link. you will find a chart showing the friction of the compounds in question (just so that you don't think I am spouting BS and can't back it up).

http://www.redlineoil.com/products_coolant.asp

I know it is hard to police the entire group of riders, however I do think it is easy to see that CCS is much more lax on safety than some of the other organizations (example MRA) across the board from the safety wiring to track procedure. I think this is just one of many examples that you can use to confirm that point.

Mike Coulter #171

[251am]

 The bike in question was in one of the Unl races, not from SuperTwins. I forget which it was, GP or SS . The guy was gridded right in front of me. On the start his bike blew a bunch of sh#t out the front of his bike. On lap one we were red flagged, came back in, and I mentioned it to the 2 MO guys who were giving me a pit pep talk. Went back out for sighting, came to grid, and one of the track safety crew pulled the offender. Is there a $500 fine for dumping oil/anti-freeze on the track? I remember the guy's # but don't want to have 900 people calling him. What do I do.