Anti-Freeze at RA?

[Mongo]

I've gone down from fluid on the track several times, water, coolant and oil.  I accept it as a hazard of the sport and understand that things happen sometimes.

Like in 01 when an un-wired oil filter spun off at BHF and covered one of the tightest corners on the track.  After the cleanup, I highsided to the moon.  They eventually closed the track for the day for the cleanup.  Did it suck?  Yes.  Was it avoidable, absolutely!  Does crap happen sometimes?  Yes...

Again, it's in the preparation...

AMA
CCS
FUSA
WERA

Which is the odd man out in this argument?

Should CCS have revised standards?  In certain areas, sure.  Should this be one?  Personally I think not...

If you honestly think you will stay up on water + water/wetter, over a PG based coolant, I think you are very much so mistaken.

The argument of a rainy track is not one worth bringing up since when it's raining, you expect the rain.  When it's dry and there is ANY unexpected liquid on the track, you will slide and depending on where it's at, you may very well fall.

I do understand your point of desiring safety.  I appreciate and respect that.  However, I don't agree with this particular measure.  

At this post, I will agree to disagree and be done with it.

Ride safe...

ROTFLMAO - first if you're going to list them all then you should add in LRRS, CRA, MRA, WSMC, AFM, WERA West, WNC and our Endurance series - none of which allow PG.  

Not only do I think water wetter is less slippery than PG I know it to be a fact.  I also know that given a few moment son a warm track ww evaporates and leaves no slippery residue, PG does.  

Your bike cannot run without oil.  It can run quite well without PG.  

Sorry dude but I've spent way too much of my life working motorcycle races at all sorts of levels and your arguments just aren't washing.  

I'll agree on the done part :)

[Mongo]

A properly maintained bike will not be any more likely to spill oil or gas as it will coolant.  

Now of those 3 - which are absolutely necessary for the operation of a water cooled motor vehicle?

Whats the temp got to do with it anyway?  I've been out walking my dog in 30 below,  had bikes in the gargage with no heat, no water or PG in them and they didn't freeze....  Interesting huh?  Also had to replace an RZ impeller because there was alittle water we missed and it was plastic.  Replaced freeze plugs, replaced an entire motor in my boat a couple years back and that was here in Georgia., nothing like spending $4k to remind you to drain the water no matter how warm is is this week.  Still got nothing to do with adding a substance to racing that has no need.

Anyway, my point is pretty obvious if you're not making excuses why you're choice is all nice and logical.  If you really feel you're making the best choice talk to the riders who fell.   Been fun but got work to do.

[gpracer171]

Jeff,

You say that you do respect the safety argument. However, I do not see this or anything but diverting the argument from slick track to cold temps after being shown the water wetter friction facts. If you did respect the argument, you would change your view if your argument did not hold true, and another is shown to be more correct. Further, logically speaking, you are even required to change your view to a better argument if it is shown to be more correct and make your argument false.

As for "it is real, It does happen" I should never have made the race I crashed in at all, being it was 23 degrees at RA and my case should have cracked with only water and water wetter. Maybe it is not as real or at least as certain an issue as you seem to putting forth that it is.

Finally, I pose to you the same question that I posed to Dawn.

"Please explain why safety comes after convenience, completely aside from the argument of EG, PG, Cold Temp, location, or any other technical issue."

Mike

PS You cannot gain anything, without THE RISK of losing everything is probably what you are looking for. We can all site examples of those who have gained something without loosing everything first.

[tzracer]

I have seen no evidence that PG was dropped on the track. A corner worker used the term antifreeze. What did the worker mean by antifreeze? EG, PG or just using the generic term to mean coolant?

I have seen racers crash in water. I saw a bike lose a coolant hose, that rider fell along with the rider directly behind. The bike had only water in it.

I had a head crack on an RZ after the water was drained. Enough stayed in the head by the thermostat to crack the head.

[cornercamping]

You guys are all missing the point:

YOU ARE RUNNING A SLIPPERY LIQUID IN YOUR BIKE THAT IS NOT NECESSARY FOR OPERATION !

Now, the freezing argument is MUTE, for the simple fact that it can be dealt with by too many other means.  Here are a few ways to keep your bike from freezing and causing damage while at the racetrack:

1. Put it in the trailer and buy a cheap $20.00 space heater and run it off a generator or power supply.

2. Drain it and replace with coolant JUST for overnight storage.

3. Buy a $50.00 engine block heater.

4. Cuddle with your bike butt naked to keep it warm  :P .

And for the garage while storing:

1. Buy a cheap space heater (or use the one you have in the trailer.)

2. Put your bike in your basement.

3. Put your bike in the kitchen (I know someone who does this.)

4. Drain water and replace coolant.

Now, those are some off the top of my head.   I'm sure you can find a way.  Regardless, lazyness is not an excuse for anything. Anything that adds to the danger of racing is not acceptable.   There's already enough danger on the track, why add to it?  

Oil and other fluids REQUIRED to keep the bike operational, are not an arguement.  I'm sure if there was a safe way to replace oil in a bike with something that isn't as slippery, it would be a new rule.  Thus, the engine case cover requirements on some bikes.

PREVENTION is the main key to SAFETY.   I'm a lazy bastard myself.   I don't like changing tires, but I have to.  

 :-X

[Johnny B]

ROTFLMAO - first if you're going to list them all then you should add in LRRS, CRA, MRA, WSMC, AFM, WERA West, WNC and our Endurance series - none of which allow PG.  

Not only do I think water wetter is less slippery than PG I know it to be a fact.  I also know that given a few moment son a warm track ww evaporates and leaves no slippery residue, PG does.

LRRS (a CCS affilliate) does not allow PG. If we find it in a race bike, it is a $50 fine. So far, we allow water and Water Wetter. If anyone has something that they feel should be allowed, they are required to bring a sample for actual testing on pavement by the US Marshalls. If we don't like it, it's not allowed. The temps were down in the teens last Saturday night up at Loudon. There were no widespread problems that I know of. Everybody drained their bikes or took them to bed with them.  ;D

[lil_thorny]

Next time you northern racers go to the track and the evening temps are below freezing, put a gallon jug of water out and i will bet you real $ that it won't freeze! It takes a lot colder and longer time to freeze an engine block than that!

Rob... you must come to BHF in april.
it does freeze and it does pop the little plugs in the head cylander on GSXR's. there is not a gallon of water in the block... more like a quart... and it does freeze rather quickly. Now if we could just get better grip/traction in the snow ;) we'd have everything handled ;D
Benj.

[lil_thorny]

Oh yeah...1 other thing, I disconnect the lower hose on cold winter nights to prevent such things from happening..... jeez how lazy are some people. LMAO.
Benj.

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

Now if we could just get better grip/traction in the snow ;) we'd have everything handled ;D
Benj.

Dunlop D205's do excellent in snow up to 80mph.:D:D Dont ask how I know.:D:D

[lil_thorny]

Dunlop D205's do excellent in snow up to 80mph.:D:D Dont ask how I know.:D:D

street riding I hope  ;D

[G 97]

ROTFLMAO - first if you're going to list them all then you should add in LRRS, CRA, MRA, WSMC, AFM, WERA West, WNC and our Endurance series - none of which allow PG.  

NESBA also does not allow PG.  

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

street riding I hope  ;D

Of course.:D:D