Anti-Freeze at RA?

[spyderchick]

If you read the tech specs on the water wetter *.pdf file, (refer to link in gpracer171's post) you will see that the reccomendations for freezing temps is to use an anti freeze as water wetter does not have anti-freeze properties.

[10bomb]

251am, I understand you don't want this person getting harassed...I agree to some extent.  If he/she honestly didn't know their bike was spewing crap all over the track that's one thing, but if they knew and still went around the track...YES they should be harassed, fined and kicked in the &%$s.  More importantly, I have an issue with CCS allowing the races to continue knowing there was bike fluid on the track!!!  All of this PG vs. EG vs. Water Wetter argument can go right out the window...at this point it appears CCS has made the decision that entry fees are more important than our safety.  I have always been one to give the benefit of the doubt, so I'd like to hear CCS's story before passing too much judgement.

[Mongo]

I for one run a PG based coolant, and will fight to continue doing so.

The issue is around cleanup, not around how slippery it is on the track, as water alone, or especially with ANY additive is JUST as slippery as PG or EG coolants.

Freeze up and crack an engine block while at BHF, and then come talk to me about running water...

The AMA allows use of PG coolant, because again, it's about the ability to clean it up; not about it being slick on the track (such as ANY fluid is).

The comment about "someone dropped anti-freeze on the track" is one taken out of context.  People say a lot of stuff.  "Coolant" would have been a better term, since I doubt that anyone could definitively say what the fluid was.  Hell, it could have been oil for that matter.....

BTW, which race # was super twins, and what preceded it?

LOL - what a bunch of ummmmm coolant.

What does it matter which words they used? Both of thet coolants you refer to ARE anti-freeze.  EG, PG, PG-13 whatever....  And the stuff in your bike if it leaks out on the track will cause your fellow competitors and possibly yourself to fall.  It's a liquid that is NOT necessary in your bike so why do you keep using it?  Do you get some sort of thrill pushing the edge that much?  do you like crashing or causing others to crash?  

Just curious....

And for the record, as far as I've always been concerned, the issue is partially cleanup but the much, much larger issue is what will cause my friends and warped family members to get hurt....

[Mongo]

FYI....

It was below freezing Thursday night.

We, being from up north run the PG based coolant for the same reasons Jeff does.

Last year by the time we got home from RA we had two inches of snow on the ground.

Dawn

Is draining the water from your bike that hard that you're willing to put people in potential danger?

Sorry but I'm not hearing one single valid reason for running PG.  

And before the complaints that I don't understand the northern winter begin - I grew up and began racing out of Cincinnati.  Spent  more than my fair share of time draining water, making sure bikes were warm overnight at IRP and Grattan as well as on the annual road trip wiht the open trailer ot Talladega every February, replacing plastic impellers in water pumps.  All worth it.  

Don't get why anyone would use the stuff in a race bike.  You don't have a choice wiht regard to oil and gasoline, this however, you do.

[Jeff]

Is draining the water from your bike that hard that you're willing to put people in potential danger?

3-5 times in a race weekend?  Yes, it is that hard.

Potential danger?  Prep your bike right, maintain it well and the risk is mitigated to nearly nothing.  You have just as good a chance as popping a motor and spewing oil as you do dumping coolant from a well prepped and maintained bike.  It's rather unlikely, but it's still a possibility.

Sorry but I'm not hearing one single valid reason for running PG.  

Okay, then don't use it.

[cornercamping]

This is gonna be a tough argument, for both sides.  I'm not for coolant either, because it took me down once at Grattan in Turn 1.  But, regardless of what anyone runs, a poorly prepped bike is going to leak something or other on the track anyways, so what's the difference.  You can't argue too much, especially considering that VINTAGE bikes usually go out and leave oil slicks, along with full exhaust systems (I picked one up) on the track, so if EVERYONE is so concerned, then Vintage should be banned also.   ::)  But hey, don't wanna add any coolant to a race track that is covered in oil from vintage class.  Oil and coolant don't mix well either.
I say stricter tech for EVERYONE, and weed out the bikes that have potential to add more danger.  It's that simple.   Lot's won't like it, but  I'd be pissed if I ended up in a wheel chair cause someone rushed putting their bike together faster to make it to the track on time too.

Done  :-X     ;D

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

Is there a $500 fine for dumping oil/anti-freeze on the track?

Nope.

[Jeff]

I say stricter tech for EVERYONE, and weed out the bikes that have potential to add more danger.  It's that simple.   Lot's won't like it, but  I'd be pissed if I ended up in a wheel chair cause someone rushed putting their bike together faster to make it to the track on time too.

This I would TOTALLY agree with.  I've taken some WERA bikes apart, and my GOD they have every friggin nut and bolt on the bike safety wired.  Like safety wiring the tires to the wheels type excessive.

In CCS, you have to safety wire the oil filter, drain plug and fill cap.  That's basically it...  

I've never seen anyone asked about a catch can either, or dinged for having holes in their lowers from crashes, etc.

[waving]

I was the cornerworker at the bend, I don't know for surewhat the bike
was dropping on the track, but the bike went into pit
lane and the red flag was called after it was confirmed it was leaking, coolant. As I told you at the scene.
The flag was called barely a second after you two came into the bend, it was just bad luck. Glad to hear you guys were OK, your helmets took a good hit. The rider in question was in your race, and was the last bike around the track before your pack.
Seconds count, and we try not to waste any.
The leaker was on pit lane as the lead pack was in 7.

[251am]

 Hey waving, that's interesting, then we had more than one leaker. The race I SAW the water dump from the bike, on the grid, was Sunday race #2.
  Which bend were you on?  

[Mongo]

3-5 times in a race weekend?  Yes, it is that hard.

Potential danger?  Prep your bike right, maintain it well and the risk is mitigated to nearly nothing.  You have just as good a chance as popping a motor and spewing oil as you do dumping coolant from a well prepped and maintained bike.  It's rather unlikely, but it's still a possibility.


Okay, then don't use it.

I won't/don't and won't allow anyone else to either because it is an added danger that has no business being in a race bike.  But like I said, you care that little about your safety or your friends, by all means do as you wish.  I can understand Kevin's position but not yours.  All of the care in the world will not always prevent it form hitting the asphalt - and when it does not need to be in the bike in the first place it's stupid to take that chance no matter how slight.  I'm sure you aren't one of the 4 people that fell but if you look at it form their pooint of view you might undertsand a bit more.  This isn't all about just you and your convenience.

A simple halogen floodlight will keep the system warm enough so that it isn't necessary to drain every time you're off the track.  That leave at night only. which works out to 3 times assuming a 3 day event since you'd wait to fill it at the track, drain each night, and drain again for transport home.  What, a whopping 20 minutes total time spent (assuming you're slow since you're cold)?

When it comes to making sure riders don't get hurt there is no such thing as excessive.  

As for Dans assertion about Vintage - we don't have that problem with them, they have the same percentage of issues as our modern bikes at this point.   Might wanna do more than corner work one race event before making sweeping judgements...

[Jeff]

I've gone down from fluid on the track several times, water, coolant and oil.  I accept it as a hazard of the sport and understand that things happen sometimes.

Like in 01 when an un-wired oil filter spun off at BHF and covered one of the tightest corners on the track.  After the cleanup, I highsided to the moon.  They eventually closed the track for the day for the cleanup.  Did it suck?  Yes.  Was it avoidable, absolutely!  Does crap happen sometimes?  Yes...

Again, it's in the preparation...

AMA
CCS
FUSA
WERA

Which is the odd man out in this argument?

Should CCS have revised standards?  In certain areas, sure.  Should this be one?  Personally I think not...

If you honestly think you will stay up on water + water/wetter, over a PG based coolant, I think you are very much so mistaken.

The argument of a rainy track is not one worth bringing up since when it's raining, you expect the rain.  When it's dry and there is ANY unexpected liquid on the track, you will slide and depending on where it's at, you may very well fall.

I do understand your point of desiring safety.  I appreciate and respect that.  However, I don't agree with this particular measure.  

At this post, I will agree to disagree and be done with it.

Ride safe...