elec. scoring and qualifying

[StuartV666]

Qualifiying would be best, but then you would lose practice time because of qualifying

Is this true? Why couldn't you just say all of practice, all weekend, counts as qualifying?

I'm not at all trying to say you're wrong. I'm saying I haven't run a race event before, so I'm ignorant. Please help me understand.

- Stu

[sdiver68]

There are valid reasons for both systems.

Then look at the logistics of what you few are asking for. 41 classes, gridded by points, average of 677 entries per event (2002 average, some regional events 910-990), then add two or three regions together (which happens 10-12 times a year) research which region that rider has most points in so you can grid him correctly (he deserves that if that is how you are doing it) means at least 2 extra hours per day to generate grids. Not feasible at this time unless we cut classes. (And then which classes would we cut? Like I said, not feasible at this time.) We could make it pre-entry by points , this would give us time to do the work in the office, but then you would have to send us your entry at least two weeks before every event, something that some of you object to already, so that is no solution. (Now you see why the 1600 entries at the Race of Champions is the only event we do that way, it takes a full week just to rank and grid the 500 riders.)

Ummm, Kevin, its mostly because your systems are so antiquated that this is logistically difficult.  The numbers you quoted could be crunched, spit out, and printed in a matter of seconds given a decent system.  Add to that system the data from mandatory electronic scoring next year :D, results could even be uploaded to the website before most racers got home on Sunday!

The difference between our procedure and our competitors gives you a choice. as it was said earlier, Pepsi or Coke?

Well, maybe RC and Pepsi because in some areas of the country you just can't get to a RC very easily.

[SUPERBIKE_MIKE]

I have been racing under CCS for two years. From what I can see CCS wants one thing, money. they are not doing this for the riders or the sport. The whole reason for pre-entry is so they can get alot of money early in the season. here is a thought we grid under class points for all pre-entered people. but our credit card or debit card is not billed until two weeks before the event. For some reason you can not make the event you can cancel within three weeks or so.
I know of one person who thought ccs billed two weeks before like this. They signed up for the whole year. this persons checking account was then almost 2000 dollars in debt.

Any thoughts

[THE_D.O.C.]

you are absolutely right.

[Dawn]

"I know of one person who thought ccs billed two weeks before like this. They signed up for the whole year. this persons checking account was then almost 2000 dollars in debt.  
 
Any thoughts"

That whole 'Assume' pun comes to mind....

[Mongo]

Our problem with qualifying has always been the extra expense it would incur for the riders rather than a lack of time.  As Stu said it would be easy enough to time all of practice if we all wind up with transponders (which reminds me - Kevin, if you read this and get a chance email me about that).  But once you start making qualifying as important as that then you have the expense of qualifying tires, qualifying set-ups etc... The same people who can afford to enter the whole season, or who run every race all season to get a good grid spot will be the same ones who spend the big bucks to have a qualifying bike/set-up.  Then we get to more rules and more enforcement about bike swapping which adds to more work for the officials and the riders (who will of course feel the need to plice their competiton to an extent).  What it means is that the final outcome is the same as it always has been in racing of any sort and always will be - the people wiht money and desire will be up front, the people doing it just for fun will not.  Of course if you're doing this just for fun then grid spots and finishes shouldn't matter should they?  This is club racing after all...

And Stu - from a business perspective what we and CCS do isn't catering to the people with money.  It's supporting our regular customers which is a good business practice, not a bad one.  The only truly sporting way to do grids is pull names from a hat - and that would be too time consuming to do in a fair and equitable manner with full oversight by the riders.

[THE_D.O.C.]

spoken like a true club racing dictator. eh stu? chad?  ;)

[Dawn]

I think THE D.O.C should change his name to THE INSTIGATOR.

[Mongo]

I think THE D.O.C should change his name to THE INSTIGATOR.

ROTFLMAO - Amen!

[r6_philly]

Kevin/CCS:

On gridding by points:

I have no problem registering 2 weeks in advance. I have a problem that if I register 2-3 weeks in advance, I still end up in the 2nd wave. I decided to pursue more races than I anticipated in the begining of the year (thats why I didn't registered the whole  year) and for the last 3 races I have been starting in the second wave. I just decided to not go to the next few races because I am not likely to finish well.

On having money and finishing well:

Yes you will finish better if you have more money. But how can I get sponsors if I don't finish well. Ok a few of us who are independently wealthy may be able to do well just outta their own pockets, but most of us need support, and we not gonna get it if we don't do well. I can't get people to sponsor me if I never finish in the top 10, and every little bit helps.

On qualifying:

Ok people with more money may be able to have different set up and use Q's and get better time. But how much better? 2-3 seconds than race time? so be it! I just don't like the idea of being gridded behind a bunch of racer who are 10 seconds slower in lap time. Which is the case in many AM races.

Out of my 8 race weekends, I all pre-entered, the best starting position in a MW race is 5th row. It is fun to fight foward and finish 10-20 positions better than where you started, but I want to win too :) I think if I get grided up front, there is a chance, but since we have 3 races to go, and I haven't registered for them, chance is slim (I am not all that fast) so I may have to just wait for next year.

I just brought up the topic because it may be SLIGHTLY fairer to the people who didn't get the chance to send the lump sum in earlier in the year(I have no problem doing so, but some of us didn't realize that you NEED to do that to ensure you do well) and by now that I realize it, it is too late for the YEAR.

either the system change or not, it is CCS's decision. I would like to see some change, but if it does not, I have $3000 saved up for the entire next season, when you guys release the schedule, you will have a check at your office the following week.


Btw, I wouldn't mind buying my own transponder. My laptimer dont work half the time, and most time I can't get people to time me, so I Don't know how I did.

[THE_D.O.C.]

I think THE D.O.C should change his name to THE INSTIGATOR.

 :o why, whatever do you mean?  :-[

stu, "I WANT MY 2$!!"

[Gixxer124]

I don't know what classes you run in, and this might be over simplifying the problem, but have you ever considered racing in a class that has smaller grids? If your worried about top 10 finishes for sponsorship reasons , this might be the way to go. ( I race in Formula 40, where a big grid is 10 bikes) I have seen Heavyweight classes with 10-15 bikes and 600's winning them. Just my $.10 (inflation)