elec. scoring and qualifying

[ecumike]

PMoravek... yea I know what you mean.   We're getting married Labor day weekend... means I'm gonna miss a few race weekends... the fiancee thinks getting married is more important.  (the nerve...eh?)

[sportbikepete]

Yeah the rain really took up all my "say hello" time. I loved it though, was my first time in the rain and I was flying until my second race Sunday where the track had a dry line and my rain tires did not appreciate that much. And as of right now the forecast is for rain Saturday down there so me thinks the rains are staying on for the ride down. I'm going to try to pit near tech since I'll be solo and will not have an extra set of hands.

[Team_Serpent]

Yeah the rain really took up all my "say hello" time. I loved it though, was my first time in the rain and I was flying until my second race Sunday where the track had a dry line and my rain tires did not appreciate that much. And as of right now the forecast is for rain Saturday down there so me thinks the rains are staying on for the ride down. I'm going to try to pit near tech since I'll be solo and will not have an extra set of hands.

Ah, excuse me, not to be rude or anything but can you guys take your chat to a chat room or e-mail each other directly.  This is a thread about grid assignment policy.
Thanks  ;D

[sportbikepete]

Well our conversation seems to be going farther than the original post.  :P

[Team_Serpent]

Well our conversation seems to be going farther than the original post.  :P

I hear ya bratha!  Sure would be nice to hear CCS's thoughts around this subject.  I have a feeling they are sitting back checking things out before they dive in.  If so, come on in, the water is warm!  ;D

[sportbikepete]

Well I'll be the bad guy and just say i'm fine with how it is right now. Changes being brought up sound like more money and more work for us.

[Super Dave]

I'll pipe up and say that we can expect to have electronic scoring and timing next year in CCS.  Riders will either buy or rent a transponder.  Maybe there will be a surcharge on one's first entry.

Ultimately, qualifying is the safest and fairest way of gridding.

As for practice...

Well, you can't fix something unless you know what's broke.

So, practice does need to be used to explore a proper set up.  If you never do your race speed during practice, you don't know how the bike will work.  It's a double edged sword.  Would you like to have a guy figure out that he can't brake at the three marker when chasing you during a race, or when he's out in practice trying to get his set up correct.  Maybe on a clear track where he won't wad up the rest of the traffic.

However, the trick is that with all the classes, practice time seems to be diminished.  It would be hard to get a clear lap in.  AMA Superbike qualifying sessions are long.  An hour?

[ecumike]

.. so yea.. back to the conv...
sportbikepete,  yea, rain was interesting, kinda fun.  It was my first time on the track AND first time in the rain AND I didn't have rain tires :o .  Although, I did come in 5th in both my 'wet' races.

I'll be near tech shak also this weekend, red Dodge Ram, red 'damaged' exup from RRR last weekend.

[ecumike]

Yea, ... haven't heard from CCS lately on any of these matters.(grids/scoring/points update)  They must be hiding ;)

[THE_D.O.C.]

stu, you are as moronic here as you are over at the WERA BBS. hows about twisting the throttle hand more, stay up front, and be gridded according to your finishes. instead of licking one stamp at the beginning of the season.

look at the poll results, the majority want points to dictate the grid. come on CCS do what your CUSTOMERS {that's right, we are customers and not cattle} WANT!!!!

[CCS]

There are valid reasons for both systems.

Qualifiying would be best, but then you would lose practice time because of qualifying, plus if one of you fast guys had a problem in qualifying, you would still be at the back. Catch-22.

Not everyone is there for the points battle, but they do measure their sucess by wins and finishes, so why is it more fair to penalize them (as some one said, it's hard to win from the second or third wave) than the 15-20 riders who would always start up front because of the points? This is sportsman racing, everyone should have a chance to win, and everyone should have a chance to start up front sometime. While the chance to win is still there starting further back, the chance to start up front only goes to a select few under the points method.

Then look at the logistics of what you few are asking for. 41 classes, gridded by points, average of 677 entries per event (2002 average, some regional events 910-990), then add two or three regions together (which happens 10-12 times a year) research which region that rider has most points in so you can grid him correctly (he deserves that if that is how you are doing it) means at least 2 extra hours per day to generate grids. Not feasible at this time unless we cut classes. (And then which classes would we cut? Like I said, not feasible at this time.) We could make it pre-entry by points , this would give us time to do the work in the office, but then you would have to send us your entry at least two weeks before every event, something that some of you object to already, so that is no solution. (Now you see why the 1600 entries at the Race of Champions is the only event we do that way, it takes a full week just to rank and grid the 500 riders.)


The difference between our procedure and our competitors gives you a choice. as it was said earlier, Pepsi or Coke?

[StuartV666]

You have a very interesting line of thinking, that I'm just not sure I can buy into.

Let me explain the basis of my line of thinking and then you decide.

I think that, in any given race, the fastest guy out there should have a reasonable chance of winning. No matter whether it's his first race ever or he's been running every race all season for the last 5 seasons in a row.

The way CCS does grids, satisfies this desire. The way WERA does it does not. As you or somebody else pointed out, WERA grids the first race according to points from last year. They choose to give advantage to people who spend more money with them. The CCS approach basically says, "we don't care how much money you have spent with us already, we're giving every competitor an equal chance for a good grid spot."

In MY experience, WERA grids normally have 2 or 3 waves (for classes that Novices with 600s would enter). And the races are often shortened, some times to as little as 4 laps, with only 2 run, and a red flag that is used as the excuse for calling the race complete. Under those circumstances, which in MY experience have been the norm and not the exception, people gridded at the back have NO chance of getting points, and therefore NO chance of ever getting closer to the front of the grid.

In contrast, in MY experience, CCS has smaller grid sizes and the races tend to be longer. So, even somebody who starts at the back has a reasonable chance at getting to the front, if they're fast enough.

I think the CCS approach is more sporting. That is MY opinion.

Notice how I didn't need to resort to calling anybody names, during this WHOLE post? Amazing, but it can be done, if one actually has something intelligent to say.

- Stu