New Visionsports' stuff?

[KBOlsen]

True, Blackhawk is "home base" for most of "Dave's Kids"... but expanding to places like Gingerman or Gratten (or even Gateway) would give him more options in terms of "University Days".  Not to replace any potential Blackhawk days.  It might even help him expand his "client base".

[Super Dave]

Lots of juggling... schedules won't be set until late January, at the earliest.  Would you consider doing Fridays before NESBA/STT events at other tracks?

I think I answered that here...

As for Friday before a NESBA event.  Don't know.  Would need to know the dates, would have to be a weekend that I'm not doing something else.  Would have to be during a weekend that other racers aren't racing somewhere else.

[Super Dave]

I don't see that there will be more than five dates at Blackhawk.  So, I cannot promise how many days I would have where.  I'd actually do the program anywhere, as long as the opportunity were available with the riders.  SMALL GROUPS ONLY.  Maximum of maybe ten, but five to eight would be better.

This might be a case where the riders that want to do this might need to take responsiblity in renting the track for a "practice day".

I'm not against going to Putnam, Summit, Jennings, Topeka, Second Creek...whatever.  

I haven't exactly decided what to do for 2004.  Everything is an option.  

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

     I like the small group idea, and also the attachment to a race weekend too, but I also understand the scheduling difficulties with that.

     I like the idea of being able to take your school and then apply that knowledge fairly soon after that in a racing situation. For that reason I don't know if the Monday after an event would be as exciting or productive, not as much to look forward to immediately. Maybe if it was a Monday after an event that had another event the next weekend it might be better (even if at another track)? I would also be concerned about people maybe not being able to show up that crashed or had bike problems over the weekend.

[Super Dave]

Mike, you're hitting it on the head.  I have a racing school.  If you fell during the weekend, there wouldn't be a way t refund the money on an event like this.

Great input, all.

[tigerblade]

Dave,

Oops, I mean Mr. Rosno  ;) , have you looked into MAM?  Lots fewer immovable concrete walls than Gateway or Heartland Park...

[Super Dave]

Did about two years ago.  

MAM is an Alan Wilson designed track, and he does hate motorcycles.  

The trick with anything near the Omaha/Kansas City area is that the population of road racers is so small.  Always has been a problem.  However, many of the other tracks are in areas where there has been a racing community on going for decades.  

I'd be happy to do MAM, but this might be one of those cases where the students might have to take the responsibility for setting up the date at the track and then coordinate the time with me to come out.

The prior information I had from MAM made it completely unworkable.  There are some other issues too that I won't go into also that are somewhat related.  I would do it, but it would require work on other peoples parts.

I was at Grattan on Monday working with two riders.  Worked well, and the cost was reasonable.  

[MadXX]

Dave

when at gingerman last weekend I talked to a guy who knows the owner and he mentioned quite reasonable rates for a barebones track package, around couple of thousand less than the number you gave me for blackhawk.  That may be a viable option as well.  One question I have is what do you need at the track for workers, ambulance, etc. to do a dedicated day like you were talking?

[G 97]

Interesting.   Curious as to why all the other race schools secure track time themselves directly with the track in question while VRS seems to put this burden back on the student.  So, not only do I have to secure track time directly with the track but I am also required to secure services?   It is all clear with me now ::)

[EX#996]

Interesting.   Curious as to why all the other race schools secure track time themselves directly with the track in question while VRS seems to put this burden back on the student.  

Dave did secure track time on his own for several years, but last year CCS decided to muscle in on his dates (look back about November of last year on this board for full details).  This year looks no different.  There comes a time when a person has to say enough is enough...

NESBA provides a service and so does Dave.  The services you two provide are different.  I know there may be some issues between you two, but the year is done, leave it alone.

Dawn   :-/

[Super Dave]

Curious as to why all the other race schools secure track time themselves directly with the track in question while VRS seems to put this burden back on the student.  So, not only do I have to secure track time directly with the track but I am also required to secure services?   It is all clear with me now ::)

I won't get angry and go off on you, but I will put this quite straight forward.

I have put on schools for quite some time.  Ten years now.  I've done it for CCS for the standard "racer safety school", and I have offered an independent stand alone school for five seasons now.

The stand alone school was also for non racers.  So, the rental rate is different, insurance, etc.  I bear the responsiblity for scheduling the dates, paying anything that is not covered by fees etc.  It is a big expense.

Garth, I don't think you own NESBA, so if you don't get enough guys, I don't think you take your check from John Deere and pay the cornerworkers, the track, or the insurance.

In fact, NESBA gave answer to a racing license holder when he wanted to ride intermediate...

I just got off the phone with NESBA home about them letting me ride as an intermediate rather than a Beginner. When I told them that I was and have been a licensed racer here's a precise quote;

" Well they give out licenses to anyone who can ride around in circles
without falling down "

Even tho I remained calm and did not respond, I found this to be personally insulting, demeaning to CCS, WERA,.... I take a certain degree of pride in successfully qualifying for my license and that pride is totally justified.

The second side of this is that I RACE.  I regularly go out and pound on my bike in competition.  Keeps my table full.  When I wasn't racing, I was a consultant at AMA Superbike races.

Responsibility back to the student?  Yes, because I can go anywhere and help anyone.  If there is a group of guys that want to be faster racers at Jennings GP, I can go there.  I'm not going to schedule a program there myself.  

I was at Grattan on Monday.  There was already a program there, and the people involved made the arrangements.  Kept everyone's expenses down.  

I can't have dates for everyone in every region.  I'm not prepared to ask my school staff to go to Mid-Ohio or to the Dakota County Community College.  They have to work and all, drive there, and I don't get paid, so I certainly don't have the opportunity to pay them myself.  I, at least, have the ability to be mobile.

Many tracks will rent time on a practice basis.  That's a lot cheaper than what I pay, what NESBA pays, what CCS pays, Sportbiketracktime.com , Star, etc...  It only makes sense.

Additionally, race school...

Really, who has a school that is really for RACERS?  Not a safety school that allows one to purchase a racing license, that's not a racer school.  And you don't need a school where you're told, "You look good out there."  And this new program is something different.  You wouldn't know.  You really don't know what I do.

So, Garth, for your statement...just let it go.

[G 97]

Dave did secure track time on his own for several years, but last year CCS decided to muscle in on his dates (look back about November of last year on this board for full details).  This year looks no different.  There comes a time when a person has to say enough is enough...

NESBA provides a service and so does Dave.  The services you two provide are different.  I know there may be some issues between you two, but the year is done, leave it alone.

Dawn   :-/

It seems as though you know more about any issues than I do.  

Actually, the year is not done.  It's getting close but NESBA still has over ten events. Four of which are in the Midwest:  Two at Road America and two at Putnam.  

While the services we provide are different they are much more similar than some will admit.  

I just find it all peculiar that is all.

BTW,  Leave what alone?