New Visionsports' stuff?

Started by Super Dave, September 25, 2003, 09:08:38 AM

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Super Dave

#36
SW?  Sure.

Not sure if you know John Aylor...I think that's how he spells his last name.  Races a Kawasaki H2 in vintage classes down there.

Anyway, I was kind of doing some research, through him, on that little winter racing series that's going to happen in AZ.  So, yes, there might be a way to do one down there.  Travel cost would be more than what it would be for me to go to like Blackhawk down the road, but anything is doable.

I'm just trying to plant the seeds now.
Super Dave

MZGirl

Does the school HAVE to be tied to a race weekend with a racing organization?

I wasn't thinking of AZ, rather, NM.  I can e-mail you my thoughts, if interested.

lil_thorny

just to reiterate one of your MANY thoughts on this subject David, i do feel that it was most important
to have the constructive critisism by your staff.
for me personally, if it weren't for you telling me things like "what is with your elbows?" or P.J. saying
things like "you look like a constipated monkey out there, relax!"  or my favorite when Mark Stiles said
" your looking better, now if we could just keep you out of the dirt"
everyone made me feel watched...observed...like there was a point to me being there really, rather than just getting some track time. I feel as though
i really needed that. Honesty. and what a difference it is to relax and stick my elbows out.... kept me on the track too. oh also thanks for the gearing change
advice too. i may not get to some of your schools next year, but i will definately be needing some
advice as we go ice racing this winter.
Benj.

Motomoon

QuoteI just got off the phone with NESBA home about them letting me ride as an intermediate rather than a Beginner. When I told them that I was and have been a licensed racer here's a precise quote;
 
" Well they give out licenses to anyone who can ride around in circles  
without falling down "
 
Even tho I remained calm and did not respond, I found this to be personally insulting, demeaning to CCS, WERA,.... I take a certain degree of pride in successfully qualifying for my license and that pride is totally justified.


Dave,

I would really like to know, who this was that i talked to because NESBA does not make it a habit of degrading people or race orgs.  

We ask the member to choose which class he/she feels most comfortable in, however we strongly suggest if you have not ridden with us and/or have never been on the track before you must start in the beginners group, to ensure you understand our procedures.

So, if the person you quoted wanted to get into the Intermediate group, the mention of a race license would have never taken place!

The only way we even mention a race license is when a person wants to go right to advanced, then he/she needs to fax in a copy of the license.  BUT, even with a race license, there may be additional requirements.


Chris Moon

Super Dave

I'm not a liberty to give out the name either here or in private.  

Attempts that I made to contact NESBA were usually made in kind of a form set up, and I was never given an answer.  Couldn't get into the class I wanted, and I'm an intermediate rider in your program.  

Garth will be happy to elaborate the whole thing for you, I'm sure.  Everyone comes to a point where they want help, but we, meaning the riders that come to me and myself, haven't found any way to really work to buy time in your program.  Done it with others, but there seems to be some animosity toward me in the Midwest NESBA group.  
Super Dave

Super Dave

Quotei do feel that it was most important
to have the constructive critisism by your staff.

Thanks, Benji...

At times, it gets hard, under the previous program, to try to work with each guy/gal.  As you know, the ridicule you received, didn't stop after class.

I think you're lucky in that you seem to have a good amount of ability to just ride quickly.  Our trick was slowing things down in your head to get you to smooth out and clean things up.  Once you start doing that, then things get easier, etc.  Tellin' ya that "you look good" really doesn't always do the trick, now does it.  But, then again, sometimes, a rider is "off" and that's all they are doing...looking good.  No changes, no nagging problems, etc.  But for a rider that is striving to achieve, that's still a bad answer.  Unless you can actively challenge a rider to try new things, ask them questions about what they are doing, suspension thoughts, a rider will just stagnate.  And that takes us back to the why riders quit thread, right?

Lap after lap after lap just doesn't cut it.
Super Dave

OmniGLH

QuoteI think you're lucky in that you seem to have a good amount of ability to just ride quickly.  Our trick was slowing things down in your head to get you to smooth out and clean things up.  Once you start doing that, then things get easier, etc.  Tellin' ya that "you look good" really doesn't always do the trick, now does it.  But, then again, sometimes, a rider is "off" and that's all they are doing...looking good.  No changes, no nagging problems, etc.  But for a rider that is striving to achieve, that's still a bad answer.  Unless you can actively challenge a rider to try new things, ask them questions about what they are doing, suspension thoughts, a rider will just stagnate.  And that takes us back to the why riders quit thread, right?

Lap after lap after lap just doesn't cut it.

I'd taken 3 schools before coming to your program Dave, and in EACH school, I rec'd that EXACT response.  "You look good."   In fact, in one of the schools, the instructor couldn't even keep up with me - so I guess it was silly of me to get pointers from the guy.  I probably could have given HIM a few pointers.  I know I'm one of the "fast out of the box" guys, but I also know that until I'm winning AMA nationals, there's always room for improvement.  Heck I probably couldn't even top-10 in an expert race yet - so I'm not THAT fast.  But it's been disappointing/discouraging to say the least.  If it wasn't for Roeser talking up your program, I'd probably never have done it.

What impressed me the most about your program, is the first SESSION out on the track, I come into the pits, and you ALREADY had something to offer me.  It felt good to know there was finally someone who was paying attention to me and what I was doing - rather than collecting the money and just letting me ride around the track.

As for what we're doing next year, well, it's still "in the works" so to speak.  I think it's pretty much a done deal that Shallcross will be chasing Suzuki money next year.  As for Roeser, DanO, and myself,  the thought of switching to WERA has come up.  A) just to try something new, B) there are some frustrations over the current organization we're in, and C) better contingency.  Roeser has also kicked around the ideas of running FUSA.

We really have yet to sit down and compare all our choices, tho I'm betting tt's probably going to ultimately come down to scheduling, and how dates compare for next year.  I don't have the budget to race EVERY weekend (like what happened in what, May and August of this year?)  Also a concern is the vacation time.  I think I'd rather do fewer weekends, be able to run an entire series (rather than go broke 1/2 way through) and get to see some new places in the meantime.
Jim "Porcelain" Ptak

Super Dave

QuoteI come into the pits, and you ALREADY had something to offer me.  It felt good to know there was finally someone who was paying attention to me and what I was doing - rather than collecting the money and just letting me ride around the track.

Can't say I can come in the first time around and tell eveyone something, but I try.  Thanks....

QuoteAs for what we're doing next year, well, it's still "in the works" so to speak.

Hey, just make sure you guys keep talking to me about all this.  I'll usually have a different take on it all, and attitude adjustment sometimes is part of my game.  So, don't be silent.  Keep me in the loop.  I'm here to help you guys.
Super Dave

lfg929

Dave, you probably already did this last Monday, but if not then make sure you talk to Monte. He might be looking for something to differentiate himself against all of the other track day orgs and offer up some advanced/intermediate level instruction which costs more. Since he is already renting out the tracks then you might be able to work something out where you attend specific events and people sign up for the additional instruction. He will have the track rented out and paid for already, it is just a matter of getting enough ppl to sign up to make it worth the trip for you.

BTW, thanks for this past Monday. It was *very* helpful. I feel like I have a much better understanding of how the bike works with respect to geometry changes. Hopefully I will get some time to continue working on "the dance". I am going to Deals Gap next week (318 curves in 11 miles, woohoo!) and will use the slower pace to concentrate on my feet a little more. Hopefully by next year it will become 2nd nature.

I will also very likely keep in the budget another round of training from you. It was well worth the expense (finally... I have spent too much on classes from others and not gotten a return).

As for doing small group instruction at other tracks... you will find it isn't inexpensive. I checked several in my area for our event and Grattan was the cheapest place I could find. All of the rest wanted between $5000 and $10000 for the day. Unless you have a lot of people, or a few people with a lot of money, then financially it becomes difficult. Grattan (coming in at around $2500 for the day, including ambulance and corner workers) is by far one of the most reasonable places around to rent.

Super Dave

Larry, we're working on details and all now.

I would agree that Grattan is cheap.  Not sure how EJ stays in business, but that's his business, I guess.

Glad what you and I did worked.  Would have liked a bit more traction so that we could do some more things and all too.  I think you have a working grasp on things, though, and that's important.

You riding this weekend and next weekend too?
Super Dave

251am

 Garth,Garth,Garth,Garth,Garth,Garth, body slam, body slam, body slam, body slam. OHHHHHHHH. he's got him on the ropes???????????!!!!!!!! ;D

fourandsix

I really enjoy these type of threads. I have known dave for a long time, i can honestly say he does a good job at his schools. The point of telling people they look good is because the person saying that has no idea what to say to help that rider. Most people that look good are going so slow it is absurd.I also think NESBA does a good job at what they do , provide reasonably priced track time for street riders and wannabe racers that are not interested in racing a series. There is room for all these types of groups to coexist. Dave can only handle so many people at a time the same as NESBA. Some people like a certain group or org because of the atmosphere at the track.No right or wrong reason why they choose. The bottom line is that the racing community or track day community are small fish, so everyone should work together.