AM to EX upgrades

[r6_philly]

I know its a dead horse 100 times over, but it just keeps on stinking.

This weekend at summit point, I had some interesting conversations with friends and fellow racers.

On Sun the sprints were cut down to 5 laps from 7 because of a lengthy cleanup in the morning. So we didn't really think about lapping people in a 5 lap sprints. So you know the surprise I got when I start seing lappers on lap 3-4. No it did not cause me to loose a race or anything of that sort, but it just seemed very dangerous.
We went up to the scoring tower to watch races, and the speed difference on the front straight was amazing. Front runners are round around 1:20's and I wouldn't be suprised 3-4 guys are running close to 2 minutes lap times.

So I ask, should we change the way we upgrade to expert? (I know its about that time of the year again). The points system obviously have times that just doesn't work right. If you consistently finish mid pack, you will have way more than enough. If you just show up at summit twice a year and do 3 races and win everyone, you can still stay AM.

Maybe for safety reasons, and other reasons, performance index should be looked at. And maybe mid-season bump-up's should be instated.

I don't know, many would say its not fair, but inexerience in the AM ranks makes the speed difference a life/death risk.

I know we can't tell newcomers to not take race schools in the fall, but when they get on the track get a feel for it, we are rushing by with 4 weekends behind us at that track and at blistering speed. It was just very unsafe. Being involved in such an incident myself this year, it hurts even more.

And I found out that a few up and comers, somewhat fasters are trying to stay AM next year. They always do. hell I did, and I paid for it.

I now wish there is no way around it, then we would all have moved up, and leave the AM races to the true new comers.

It is cool to have 2 newbie classes, maybe lw and hw races for their first and 2nd weekend, but I doubt we can fit it in the schedule. I doubt even more that we can have a new classification. So the JR system comes to mind.

Or maybe we can bump up faster, and more firm. Or take away the AM championships, or set a quota on purse/contigency winnings. Or take away AM championships. I guess it would hurt CCS's business, maybe. But it would be safer for the fast guys to move up. And right now, there is no incentive for us to, and there is no provision to make us to.

we would never run a track day and put people with that much skill difference on the track at the same time. We bump you and thats final. Not because you want to, but thats where you fit in. I think its time classifications of racers become assigned, instead of desired as well.

The current system make us want to achieve something as an AM, and people somehow get the illusion (or is it) that it is valuable. Should we put so much emphasis on our AM careers?

I have a lot of question and no real answers (sorry Dave) but it really concerned me and quite a few others, so I just like to throw it out and see what everyone thinks, maybe we can come up with something productive.

[MELK-MAN]

even bumping the fast am to expert, you often have combined classes. The experts start wave 1, am on wave 2. Same problem even bumping the fast am to expert right? Yes, not running combined classes would fix that problem but (and i like this) we run all our races sunday rather than sat and sunday.

[Steviebee]

And I found out that a few up and comers, somewhat fasters are trying to stay AM next year. They always do. hell I did, and I paid for it.

What do you mean you paid for it ?

[Super Dave]

I think that there should be a three tier system.  Loudon has one.  Doubt that we would see change.

There should be some kind of a new comer classification...could be in it for a year an a half...no championships, but points would be awarded for something.

Then a class for the guys that are gettting better or would just be happy racing for fun.

Then the freak show pro/expert class.  More money races, fewer classes.  Something that would be a bit more "premere" in nature.  Some people wouldn't want to race that, and that's fine.

[Pierre - Team PMR]

I think that there should be a three tier system.  Loudon has one.  Doubt that we would see change.

There should be some kind of a new comer classification...could be in it for a year an a half...no championships, but points would be awarded for something.

Then a class for the guys that are gettting better or would just be happy racing for fun.

Then the freak show pro/expert class.  More money races, fewer classes.  Something that would be a bit more "premere" in nature.  Some people wouldn't want to race that, and that's fine.

I agree with you Dave....

[Eddie#200]

I think that there should be a three tier system.  Loudon has one.  Doubt that we would see change.

There should be some kind of a new comer classification...could be in it for a year an a half...no championships, but points would be awarded for something.

Then a class for the guys that are gettting better or would just be happy racing for fun.

Then the freak show pro/expert class.  More money races, fewer classes.  Something that would be a bit more "premere" in nature.  Some people wouldn't want to race that, and that's fine.

Kinda like that with CCS to F/USA isn't it?

[r6_philly]

I paid for it dearly when I had some incidents with slower riders, their inexperience and mine caused a lot of pain and suffering, so I feel like the system could use a change or 2 or 3.

Dave I like your idea too. AM race for getting into it, less classes, less reward. Middle tier races for points, trophies and some reward for guys who are expeirenced and racing for fun, top tier races for serious experts who wants top level competition, more payout, less races. Just one more level for people in between to fit in.

It is actually kind of like that on a FUSA weekend. Sunday races attract big names, and CCS races just for the club guys. If they could structure it every weekend, change the classification system, we may see more fair competition and safer track.

I think AM and EX classes should be different, and offer different things. So the only way to get in those classes and get the rewards is to be Expert and leave the AM ranks. Right now everything is the same, and the system gives a fast AM a LOT more rewards than a mid-pack expert. So why move up. And then without a firm and effective system for moving up, people --- sandbag. We all had in our minds to do it, whatever the reason we give, a lot of us do it. The result is we endanger the newbies and ourselves.

[Super Dave]

Kinda like that with CCS to F/USA isn't it?

No, the FUSA guys are still experts.  The FUSA license is just another fee to race in a class that has a purse and the "image" that it's a pro event.

If you've been racing for six years at Blackhawk on a 600, but you can't do 1:22's...you are capable enough to be "called" an expert...one who has knowledge about the sport, etc.  Being an expert isn't about speed, it's about safety...you know and understand how it all works.  

Now, that same guy surely isn't an amateur like one of my guys that comes from my school.  If he does, our six year amateur, gather it together and wins, that's what is commonly refered to as "cherry picking", right?

  

[Super Dave]

AM race for getting into it, less classes, less reward. Middle tier races for points, trophies and some reward for guys who are expeirenced and racing for fun, top tier races for serious experts who wants top level competition, more payout, less races. Just one more level for people in between to fit in.

There you go.  You had the idea...just needed some refining, right?

[r6_philly]

There you go.  You had the idea...just needed some refining, right?

yup, thanks for helping me putting it together. Now if someone will just listen to me now :)

should have picked Kevin's brain while I was at summit point

[lil_thorny]

i agree completely and whole heartedly with Dafan.
Dave,
hmnnn???????? i sense something familiar here?
Benj.

[Super Dave]

i
hmnnn???????? i sense something familiar here?
Benj.

Spoken by the true amateur.

Yeah, my mind is always goin'.

CCS wants more riders, maybe something like this would attract and, more importantly, retain more road racers to the program.