Formula 40 Rules

[sdiver68]

Having owned and done track days and street raced a GSXR1000, here's the advantage over the 750 learned by repeated experience:

1)  Above 145 or so, the extra HP pulls you away.  Below that, its real close.  How often do you spend time up in that region, other than Road America?

2)  Biggest advantage, is more torque throughout the RPM range.  May make shifting less, and certainly less of a deficit if you miss a shift or the gearing you use forces a compromise in a corner or 2.

However, 2 can be mitigated by the tendency to high side unless you are real delicate with the throttle. :O  And the 750 comes with superior forks.

At Gateway, the lap record is held by a 750.  Rumor has it that it may not be a 750 lol

I think you'll notice in the "unlimited" sprint pro classes there are still some very competitive 750 based bikes.  In endurance racing though, the broader power band and less strain on the bigger motor makes the 1000 the bike of choice.

IMHO, I say let 'em in, and run 2 sub-classes.  Sport bike sales are stratifying into 3 levels: Small (GS,SV, EX), Medium (600ish), and Large (900+).  The 750 is going the way of the dinosaur.  CCS needs to respond to the realities of people wanting to ride their race-legalized street bike, at least at first.

Of course, I'm not eligible unless they implement the age + bike age rule, so ignore everything above, except I wanted to shed some light on the myth of the all powerful 1000 at the club level.

[stillslow]

   I don't care what you ride. If your good your good. Does anyone here that is a top 3 finisher or class champion say it was the bike that did it. It doesn't make sense to not let someone ride in a class because of the "name" on a bike. If you can win the class then YOU won the class, not the bike.Don't let me here about closeing speeds, IF you had a lap time of 1:21 and I had a lap time of 1:22 guess what, You beat me to the finish line, and if that continued for 5 laps, guess what, you beat me by 5 seconds. If I race a 1000 and Rich Oliver rides a 125 and we raced in the same class would I have to warn him to be careful going into the turns because I ride a 1000 CC motorcycle and I might run into him? NOT..Rich would probably tell me he doesn't care what I bring to the track, just don't get in his way.(humor) Makes no difference, it ain't going to change anyway. Now I'm really DONE! :-X :-X :-X :-X

[mj]

Stillslow......if what you say is true.....then WHY do we have all of the different classes running in CCS ?

The skill level between MOST of the people who race at the CCS level is pretty close, unlike the comparison that you made between yourself and Rich Oliver.

Try again.  :o

[stillslow]

S T I L L---      comes down to lap times and the rider. Go to the guy who won his class this year and tell HIM " It wasn't you , it was the bike you had." Anyone who knows and rides with that guy (girl) know the skill he has on ANY bike.
       The point is if you are Joe average rider and you normally finish mid-to-rear of the pack,putting a 1000 under you to race against 750s is not the thing that is going to make you the "Superpilot". We are all basically "average" with the exception being those guys who always win. Why punish all the riders that bought bikes and THEN decided to race? As some of the other writers who have ridden 1000s said, "There is not enough difference in the 750s and 1000s to make any kind of difference." For now the 750 guys say no to expanding the class but what do they do when it is their turn, when there is no specific class for a 750.
       What's the difference, it ain't gonna change anyway! :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

A Schlock says:
"I'm new to racing and didn't get started doing this until i was 41 years old so I'm looking for a class that there is some hope of winning a race or two."

Don't bet on it, Junior.  I'm coming to F40 in 2003, and if the open class rule passes, I'll be riding a supercharged V Max!  How do you like your RC51 now?  I'll get you, and your brother too!
K3

[Baltobuell]

  Jeezie, you guys are still debating this?
 The F40 is supposed to be fun, where an ol' guy can still win. Running behind somebody just to burn em to the checker with horsepower just don't seem right. Everybody knows the 750's are probably going to go the fastest. I don't think they should be allowed either! But, they are. Realistically, the guys that just enjoy getting out there because they love the sport, Usually ride TZ's or some other real lightweight. It costs a fortune to run a big bike and it's not supposed to be a contest of who's got the most money. Yes, some of you already have middle weight and open class bikes. Get a 600 or an SV for 4 grand and learn to ride it. You will learn more and have alot more fun actually racing with somebody. I hope they do try a LW HW format, but till then.

[EX#996]

Don't bet on it, Junior.  I'm coming to F40 in 2003, and if the open class rule passes, I'll be riding a supercharged V Max!  How do you like your RC51 now?  I'll get you, and your brother too!
K3

Um.... K3

How do you plan on turning the ol' V-Max?  How about running extended forks on the front with a pizza cutter and a car slick on the back.   ;D

Dawn  ;)

[roadracer797]

K3
Hey for one I won't ride that RC51 it's an elephant and it sounds good that you are going to race in F-40. Are you still going to need my help during the weekend to keep that V-max together, if so I'll be glad to help any fellow racer even if he runs my class and beats me. See you at the banquet where we can truly talk about this.
Craig

[stillslow]

 I believe Baltobuel is right. The 750s dominate every class they race, even the Unlimited Supersport. MOST riders (going by what's been told to me by different Roadracing schools) will turn faster times on it than any 1000. The original question was, if the open class bikes and the 750s turn basically the same times (with the upper hand going to the 750s) then why are the open class bikes excluded from racing with them? If it is because they are too fast, then the statistics (look at the CCS results page) show CCS should eliminate the 750s from F40.  Given a 750 or open class bike a top 2 finisher will win every time over a 600. From experience, it won't make a difference to a mid to rear of the pack rider. From what I have been told CCS put a cap on the size of the bikes in F40 because they didn't want to "turn older Amateurs loose on the track with that much horsepower." The whole debate is about that reason. If the 750s and the open class bikes are about equally as fast and are powered by basically the same (usable) horsepower in Amateur hands, then allow them to race together. And don't use the age thing as a weapon against us. We are not so feeble we can't manage an open class bike on a track. Some of us may  be just average riders but the love of the sport is why we do it.
     Why bother, it ain't gonna happen ayway :-X :-X :-X

[Eddie#200]

If you want to race an open class bike... sign up for an open class race.  This one class is the same as running HW supersport.  If you want to bring a LW bike to a HW race you can.  F40 is no diffrent than a HW race other than age.

[stillslow]

Who decided that?  Originally The 750s were not allowed in F40.

[stillslow]

Everyone is a rule maker.
  It doesn't matter, it ain't gonna change anyway. :-X