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ULTB rules for 2015

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Zaph

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ULTB rules for 2015
« on: October 19, 2014, 01:35:42 pm »
Hey all, first post here.

I'd like to chat about where two new bikes will fit in to CCS if at all.  Bike 1) KTM RC390 (373 cc thumper) and bike 2) Yamaha R3 (321 cc inline twin)

I'm drinking the orange cool aid and I really like the RC390.  I would like it even more if it were allowed in ULTB.  It makes roughly the same rear wheel HP as the ninja 300, so I think there's a good chance that it be allowed.

What are the chances that the R3 will be allowed in ULTB? This would seem to be the bike with an unfair advantage.  So I guess the questions are when will we find out what will be allowed in 2015?

There are so many in the small sportbike class now, but they aren't adhering to any standard engine size which makes it difficult to group them all together.  It's already kind of a bummer that 250's aren't competitive.  I wouldn't be surprised if the R3 was not allowed.

Would be cool to add a group for "super ultra light thunderbike" for the 250's and just allow them to race with the bigger bikes in ULTB.
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Gino230

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Re: ULTB rules for 2015
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2014, 11:12:00 am »
I would suggest you email Eric Kelcher and propose that these bikes are allowed in.

Usually, without someone proposing a rule change for the committee, the rules remain the same. Unless something major comes out. I believe the suggestion period is open now but it will close shortly so CHOP CHOP!   :)

eric.kelcher@ccsracing.us
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2012 Ducati 848 / 1100 Conversion     2005 Ducati 749RS
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2008 CCS LW Supersport National Champion (EX) 2nd in 2011 and now  2012....damn you Mavros!

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bruce71198

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Re: ULTB rules for 2015
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2014, 11:19:54 am »
Hey all, first post here.

I'd like to chat about where two new bikes will fit in to CCS if at all.  Bike 1) KTM RC390 (373 cc thumper) and bike 2) Yamaha R3 (321 cc inline twin)

I'm drinking the orange cool aid and I really like the RC390.  I would like it even more if it were allowed in ULTB.  It makes roughly the same rear wheel HP as the ninja 300, so I think there's a good chance that it be allowed.

What are the chances that the R3 will be allowed in ULTB? This would seem to be the bike with an unfair advantage.  So I guess the questions are when will we find out what will be allowed in 2015?

There are so many in the small sportbike class now, but they aren't adhering to any standard engine size which makes it difficult to group them all together.  It's already kind of a bummer that 250's aren't competitive.  I wouldn't be surprised if the R3 was not allowed.

Would be cool to add a group for "super ultra light thunderbike" for the 250's and just allow them to race with the bigger bikes in ULTB.


The ULTB class was developed for the 250's. If your going to race that class and are out shopping buy a class legal bike. If you want a Ktm390 buy one and race the 500 SS and LW classes. Its the same old argument about a machine that doesnt have a class to run in and getting bumped into the next lower class.
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bruce71198

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Re: ULTB rules for 2015
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2014, 11:25:11 am »
OK, didn't realize the KTM was a single, that changes things. So rethinking this maybe run the 250's as thunderbike rules and anything bigger as SS rules.
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Zaph

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Re: ULTB rules for 2015
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2014, 07:45:35 pm »
I would suggest you email Eric Kelcher and propose that these bikes are allowed in.

Usually, without someone proposing a rule change for the committee, the rules remain the same. Unless something major comes out. I believe the suggestion period is open now but it will close shortly so CHOP CHOP!   :)

eric.kelcher@ccsracing.us

Thanks for the info.  Eric got back to me right away.

He foresees no changes to ULTB.  He suggested people running R3's and RC390's will need to race in 500SS.

But neither of those bikes will be competetive there, so basically those bikes won't have a home in any class.  That's too bad, they look really nice, particularly the KTM.  ULTB will continue to be a class where the 300 ninja is the only competitive bike.
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LWT Racer

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Re: ULTB rules for 2015
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2014, 07:57:03 am »
R3 and RC390's will be competitive because almost no one races that class.  Ninja 250 won a lot of the races this year.  Mark Every is other contender on his FZR400.
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Sam Wiest #60
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Capitalview

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Re: ULTB rules for 2015
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2014, 08:59:22 am »
So, where is all the bitching that CCS is protecting a 20 year old design?  That is what we hear when the request is made to remove the big air cooled ducs in the LW class.

So, instead of letting the bikes race in the class they were actually designed to be in, they are forced to race a class up.

People talk about growing the sport, but then when two new ULW bikes show up, they aren't allowed in the ULW class? 
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HerbigCBR

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Re: ULTB rules for 2015
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2014, 11:10:19 am »
Lets kick the SV out of ultralight superbike and put the 300's in there. SV already has enough classes. :-)
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Jared Herbig - CCS #323
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Gino230

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Re: ULTB rules for 2015
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2014, 03:50:30 pm »
I spoke to Al Luddington at AMA about 6 months ago regarding the proposed 500 class, and he was writing the rules to include the KTM. So it was my impression that it was comparable in HP / weight in spec form? I  checked the specs a while back but forgot the numbers.
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CCS / ASRA EX # 23
2012 Ducati 848 / 1100 Conversion     2005 Ducati 749RS
2006 CCS Florida Thunderbike Champion (AM)
2008 CCS LW Supersport National Champion (EX) 2nd in 2011 and now  2012....damn you Mavros!

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Zaph

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Re: ULTB rules for 2015
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2014, 05:30:26 pm »
The RC390 claimed peak output is 44 hp at the crank, so figure mid 30s at the rear wheel.  That's exactly the same as the ninja 300.  It should really be allowed in that class.  The CBR500R is about 43 rwhp.   Imho, it doesn't make sense to cap thumpers in ULTB at 300 when a twin is also capped at 300.

I would guess a thumper 300 is competitive with an inline twin 250,  and a 375 thumper seems like fair competition to a 300 inline twin in much the same way a 675 triple fits in with the middleweights.

If I had my way, ULTB should go one of two ways.  Back down to 250, and allow CBR300 thumpers, or allow the R3 and RC390 and move the class in that direction.  Or maybe even allow all of them in the same race, but group the 250 ninjas and 300 CBR's into their own category.  "Super ultra light thunderbike" or something.
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bruce71198

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Re: ULTB rules for 2015
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2014, 06:02:05 pm »
Honestly, who is going out and buying a brand new bike and converting it to a race bike for and entry level, beginner class? I think this should be addressed in a couple seasons when some of these bikes show up at the track. You can purchase, prep and race a 250 for under $3000, lets leave that formula alone. If you want the latest and greatest, race up a class, dont ruin the 250 thing!
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spoot

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Re: ULTB rules for 2015
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2014, 07:49:48 pm »
The 500r may have 43hp, but it is also a bit heavier than the KTM or R3. So, I think the KTM would fair rather nicely....and tiny grids!
You may see an '72 RD350 out there in 2015 (MW region).
I might agree with 250 twin/300 single=TB rules. 300 twin/<380 single=SS rules. The CBR300 is way down on power and probably couldn't hold a candle to the new N300.
I'd have to refresh myself on the other bikes allowed in the 250class to see how they might fair (2-strokes vs air cooled vs liquid...etc)
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