Safety at PBIR

Started by Toy Store, October 24, 2009, 02:55:34 PM

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roadracer162

The safety barriers have been there for quite some time and they have bee placed in the most obvious location of high impact. More of them will always be needed even at the middle of the back straight as long as a wall is there, but we must do the best that we can with what is there. Henry and PBIR and the group of riders that volunteered their time have been proactive even before we ever raced there.

There are more areas that can be made safer. and I am sure they will be addressed.

Mark
Mark Tenn
CCS Ex #22
Mark Tenn Motorsports, Michelin tire guy in Florida.

redlinepilot

Re: Air Fence at PBIR

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GsxrLwyr 
some very good points you brought up.

I'm sure CCS is taking this very seriously, but if HD is still anything like he was in the old days, I wish you even more luck. At the end of the day, he does have a financial stake in all of this, so I would keep a close eye on his responses/actions.

Keep in mind that everyone who does race/ride at any event signs a liability waiver, which clearly states that they fully understand and accept the risk of riding/racing at that track.

Perhaps rather than blaming everything solely on PBIR, and forming a massive stink with threats of boycotting, the racing/trackday community can take a stand with a different, more diplomatic approach. Be proactive. RRW provided a great model, which I'm sure that people down here would be very receptive to. Mission - RoadracingWorld Action Fund

just a thought.
To the fallen rider, may he rest in peace. At least he went while doing something he loved, which should be of some consolation to his family and friends.




Touché sir,

When you say CCS, in Florida that's HDPromos not Texas.

I have presented a proactive course and recommendations to communicate in a positive and professional manner to the members of the JenningsGP and CCS Forums. My posts in "Track Safety" and "Safety at PBIR" respectively have definitely received attention and have been well received by a handful of active riders.

To your point and unfortunately so, HD and PBIR have not responded at all and I really don't expect them to. The responses have come from riders close to HD as third parties that respond to open forum inquiries with impressions or hear say, nothing first hand.

As far as "actions" by HD or PBIR at this time is a complete unknown. Again to your point, the RRW Action Fund Mission was previously presented as resource. Dr. Adams's articles are excellent and time will tell if the powers that be have the means to execute what is required. In bad times or good, the priority for safety is always first.


Steve Guanche
EX #15 FL
Steve Guanche
Ex # 15 FL

hamurobby

I have read the post here and contributed my thoughts on the jgp website as far as track rider safety. I would like to add to here as this is probably a more read by racer site than jgp. I dont have all the answers, and this is just my opinion formed from what I have seen, and it certainly does not address every issue pertaining to track safety or rider safety. I dont have all the experience in the world, I have raced for about 7 years off and on in the past 20 years, and watched track safety improve incrementally.  I have ventured to other tracks in the US and I dont find there to be much wrong with PBIR compared to the other tracks I have raced on. In fact, I feel it is one of the safest, second only to JGP, and I will tell you why. The biggest reason is pbir has relatively SLOW corners. Almost all of the corners are exited in second gear, and the track surface is almost glass smooth and has a huge amount of grip, and is the WIDEST track we race on, except for parts of Daytona. This gives a rider plenty of room to maneuver, make mistakes, etc, without running off the track. there is a huge mount of paved runoff at the end of the long straight (I know because I have used it, I wish RRR had half of it off t1). I want to clarify that I dont like walls, armco, stacks of tires, trees, telephone polls or anything of the sort near a racetrack, but the sad fact is, EVERY track, including jgp, has something dangerous about it. I also believe we should speak out about truly dangerous situations that exist, (and anything we dont like) and there are plenty of them on all tracks. There have been deaths at every track in the US, and there will continue to be as long as we ride on them. Its the nature of the game we play. The accident that happened at pbir, from what I hear (I was not there) was a two bike incident where one bike was redirected from contact with another bike. Now picture your favorite track and the one place you would not like to crash there, and imagine two bikes tangling up at speed and one of the bikes being redirected into something bad. Its probably not going to turn out very well. I can sit here and list the 9 tracks I have raced on and point out terrible places to run off just by yourself, and things that could go wrong, but you already know what and where these places are. (okay, t2 at Daytona, t3 at CMP, t12 at jgp, t12 at RA, under the bridge at VIR, t1 at RRR, t7 at homestead,darn near anywhere at Barber, and darn near anywhere you are above 2nd gear). The problem boils down to the fact that we are allowed to ride motorcycles on tracks that cars race on. We will never be able to sway track owners to remove hard barriers so we can have more run off, and in turn, loose all the revenue from car racing. We will never generate for them, enough money for the tracks to justify this. What very well may happen though, is we may be banned from racing motorcycles by the tracks themselves, for fear of bad publicity and pending lawsuits. Once this starts, even the safest tracks will follow, until there is no place to ride but the street. More air fence may be the answer, but where is all the money to come from? and how about the labor to put it up and take it down at every event? At VIR (I know, because I helped one time) it takes hours and hours of labor to put up and remove the airfence by dedicated cornerworkers that receive very little consideration for doing so. The cost will go up, and surprisingly it really hasnt over the years, but promotors have held down the cost, as racers just race more classes if they have the money to do so. The process of promoting racing has a double edge, there are two major competing sanctioning bodies. They have to be competitive with the cost of racing to both gain market share of the racing, but at the same time can not provide all the luxuries of massive amounts of airfence etc, because they cannot charge enough to make it all happen and racers participate.

The greatest part of racing with CCS, is the fact that both Kevin Elliot and Henry Degouw both were competitive racers in their past. They both know what it is like to be a racer, and what is right for the sport as a whole.

Before we ever raced at PBIR, Henry had expert Fla racers on the track running it in both directions and listened to feedback from them as to what was needed to make it as safe as possible. A decision was made to the direction and also placement of soft barriers in the most dangerous places. All the available resources were put in place, and racing resumed. The old PBIR (Moroso) was very treacherous, it was very narrow, very bumpy and surrounded by tire barriers and armco. The New track has its limitations, just like every RACE CAR track in the US we race motorcycles on, but is a far better racetrack for motorcycles than before. There is only ONE motorcycle only track in existence in the US, and thats JGP. Even jgp has its limitations to safety, as 4 people have lost their lives at jgp since it opened in 2001.  It was a terrible and unfortunate accident that happened, there is no disputing that, but I dont believe there is a direct place to put blame, it was, I believe, a racing incident. There is NO way to completely make safe, racing motorcycles on RACE CAR tracks or anywhere for that matter. I believe whole heartily that more rider education is the key to minimizing tragic consequences that can occur, and make racing motorcycles on RACE CAR tracks safer for all of us. So, if you are an experienced racer and can somehow find the time, warm up to a new or less experienced racer if they asked for advise and lend him or her a hand and some experienced opinion on what they are doing. Im sure somewhere in your past, someone has helped you to be a safer better rider.
Waldo, the first cat of Jennings gp.. I miss you, rip buddy.

redlinepilot

Airfence Update, PBIR has placed a section of airfence where Isidro Castillo crashed.
Steve Guanche
Ex # 15 FL