Safety at PBIR

Started by Toy Store, October 24, 2009, 02:55:34 PM

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d-wire

I'd like to be on that committee...but they would have to do something to make sure the committee wouldn't be liable for incidents that happen on the track, where barriers are placed and not placed, etc.  I know I'd be concerned with all the lawyers out there and hey, this is a dangerous sport. 
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roadracer162

So at least two show interest in the committee. I guess I will need to speak to Joe about the legal ramifications.

Anyone else?
Mark Tenn
CCS Ex #22
Mark Tenn Motorsports, Michelin tire guy in Florida.

d-wire

I think HD would want to pick the guys if there was one....I'm sure he would want guys in different classes etc.

Mark ..pm over on JGP
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DEVINC

I may not have much valuable experience or opinions, but I would like to help. That is of course, if there is no legal liability and no personal financial obligations. Just letting you know...


Toy Store

I'm all about it! I will say that HD should NOT have any control over such a group. To do so would threaten any independent sovereignty it would have. Just a thought.
Patrick
www.superbiketoystore.com
1.866.999.9823

MELK-MAN

Quote from: Toy Store on October 26, 2009, 02:09:56 PM
I'm all about it! I will say that HD should NOT have any control over such a group. To do so would threaten any independent sovereignty it would have. Just a thought.

? .. Not sure i would agree that would be best. HD had offered to match donations from racers for airfence at Homestead, before Homestead decided to cough up big bucks for a large amount of airfence in T7.
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roadracer162

Rest assured that Henry is doing everything he can for the riders.

Mark
Mark Tenn
CCS Ex #22
Mark Tenn Motorsports, Michelin tire guy in Florida.

d-wire

If anything is ever put together like that, it would have to work through and with HD anyway.  HD can work with the tracks to get things done....he cares about the safety stuff more than people realize.  He was HUGE in getting the air fence for Homestead.  He is working right now on other stuff safety wise.  He isn't in this sport for the money.
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FL region #2

redlinepilot

#21
Quote from: skidMARK on October 26, 2009, 11:57:39 AM
Patrick,

You do have some legitimate concerns about safety and I must concur with your thoughts on safety. I have been contemplating a response to your first post for some time now. I think that some of your statements can be a little misleading unless you have specific details confirming the results. I don't have all the details and what I do have I would not be able to confirm with any accuracy.

The facts we do know is that he did hit a wall and there was a death. The death didn't happen at the time of the incident but later at the hospital. Yes a wall was involved but unless there was an investigation done of the incident I can't see a formal concluson being drawn.

The fact is walls and motorcycles don't mix well, even worse a motorcycle running head on into another motorcycle. A track being shoehorned into the space available makes for a track with lots of walls. For some of the bikes(slower bikes) it isn't as much of a factor. On the big bikes stuff happens faster.

The discharged extinguisher is something worth complaining about and I would say the first person to go to is the leader of the organization. I am sure he will then either investigate it himself or go to the person in charge of the corner-workers and safety in general and make the concerns known.

I am not happy about t incident with the kid on the Kart-track , but there is more to it. What we as participants of motorcycle racing should be concerned about is how it did affect our own safety which could have been very detrimental to us-not taking anything away from the child that was hurt.

There are some serious concerns with some of them being addressed as we speak. What can we do? Voice those concerns to Henry. I know I have with some of mine. Pass the hat? Not just yet. How about we form a safety committee that represents the riders? There are some riders now that are speaking up that have been invited by Henry and PBIR and they have been instrumental in improving safety before we ever ran there.

As far as the T3 incident I would have never expected the outcome on that fateful day. I think that anyplace on that track could have the same dire consequences given an ontrack incident that led to that. What we mostly look at is the typical single vehicle incident as in a high-side or lowside crash. What about going into T6 with your normal speed, someone comes by out of control or just plain 'ole misjudged the turn and clip your right clip-on and front brake lever? Where will you go then? Is there enough room to ride it out? I know many didn't like the gravel traps at Homestead but I must first hand experience that it did work for slowing me in an off-track excursion. It's not that I panicked and just ran off the track but instead the rider that had just mtorored by me parked it mid-corner and I had to maneuver to avoid.

Patrick, I am up for getting riders together and forming such as committee if needed. I just don;t know how to go about it.

Mark

Mark,

I like they way you express yourself, it's refreshing to see someone present the facts as they are without inflammatory statements or misinformation that was not substantiated one way or another. This is a new track and like anything else new you have to work out the problem areas as they arise...its work in progress. I have raced at PBIR since 1976 and each year the motors have more HP, the tires have more grip and bikes are made to handle better. Amateurs have a steep learning curve and present a level of risk from simple lack of experience. On the other hand Experts are pushings limits riding fast and fully committed and on tight areas of the tracks where there is great risk. Let me try to give you the answer you were looking for as far as how to go about initiating the process. There has been an established and recognized process that has been used in Florida and is still used at the National Level to a degree and I'll explain. The tools that were previously used was a handfull of top riders including veterans that had tenure would do a walk thru/ ride thru observation and report back to a rider representative. This individual would analyze the report, get concensus and make the recommendations to the promotor. In turn the promotor would submit the recommendations to the track management for review and comments. Everything takes time and the solution depends on how much needs to be done and how soon. The track owners have made a great investment and the business is trying to make money so understand if change takes time because the solution will have a cost factor. In Topeka, they worked all night to get it right for a National, PBIR is not running Nationals but the safety to life factor can not be ignored for the sake of points or money. This matter indeed affects all and all should participate to contribute to a solution. Just so you know, someone has to step up to the plate and communicate this intent to the general ridership and give Henry a heads up. High level professional communication with concensus should do it and without drama.

Steve Guanche
Ex # 15
Steve Guanche
Ex # 15 FL

redlinepilot

Quote from: d-wire on October 26, 2009, 12:04:42 PM
I'd like to be on that committee...but they would have to do something to make sure the committee wouldn't be liable for incidents that happen on the track, where barriers are placed and not placed, etc.  I know I'd be concerned with all the lawyers out there and hey, this is a dangerous sport. 

Sean,
This is your opportunity to contribute to the cause. Please read my posted response to Mark Tenn on his matter and get back to me if you have questions...I believe you would be a good candidate for a safety committee.

Steve Guanche
EX # 15 FL
Steve Guanche
Ex # 15 FL

roadracer162

#23
Steve,

Thank you for the response and insight. With the information within your post I must report that this process has been well underway even before we started racing on the new track. Henry has initiated this process a long time ago. Why did he do it? I believe because he is a racer at heart and he is looking out for my safety. Safety in a high risk endeavor is a difficult proposition to be perfect all the time. We can only speculate on the dangers and deal with the most obvious ones first.

I too have raced on the old Moroso on it's many incarnations. With rough and patchy pavement, canals looming in the background, water run-off coming from the overhead walk-over onto the front straight, and oh yeah walls. I believed that the new track would bring higher corner speeds and maybe even more serious injuries after a crash. I don't know if it more safe or not, I hope so.

Sean has been instrumental in getting things done and he is a voice that is well respected by rider and promoter. I believe we are headed in the right direction.

Mark
Mark Tenn
CCS Ex #22
Mark Tenn Motorsports, Michelin tire guy in Florida.