DUC 1098 in HEAVY WT?? WTF..

[Eric Kelcher]

Comment that "no one complained" must be in the proper context, during the open comment period for 2008 rules there was no comment, complaint or other request to look into twins displacement limits in Heavyweight SuperBike, thus no research was done at that time.

After rules are finalized/announced riders have made bike, class and season plans dependent on the rulebook and our word to honor and enforce those rules. To yank them out of a class mid season is a VERY serious issue.

The "complaints/comments" that came mid season were were from a few people mostly centered in/around FL in regard to select bikes (I believe they were all 1198cc machines). Upon review mid season the basis of the complaints was that a SuperSport legal Middleweight machine was not able to compete against a bike built to Heavyweight SuperBike rules. When a rider runs up in displacement levels there is a disadvantage, when a rider rides up in modification levels there is a disadvantage. If there were not advantages to certain bikes, sizes, modifications then there would only be one class. When checking locally on what machines were competing no Heavyweight SuperBikes were found only Heavy SuperSport machines or very lightly modded (wheels/tires, not engine like there was to the Ducati machines and basis of comments). How much advantage a displacement/modification increase is can be dependent on the track, rider, type of machine, setup etc. Based on the localized nature of comments a mid season rule change was not the course of action that was chosen by CCS instead it would undergo full review by rules committee for 2009 rulebook.

Upon rule committee review the Heavyweight bikes were found they slightly down at the 775cc limit to HP numbers of the Ducati 1098 machines but would be same level with the more common 818cc displacement mod for GSXR750. The 1198 machines hp exceeded what was a reliable ceiling for any modded GSXR750 and were eliminated.

[MELK-MAN]

Is there an easy way to tell if a bike is a 1098 or 1198? How did CCS determine that the horesepower of a 1098 is equal to a ss legal 750? And is what your saying that the lack of superbike built 750 bikes (wheels,bored,cams,etc) is what was the decision to allow the 1098 in 750 supersport?? What if there are riders that don't tell you that info so they can run the 750 in ss AND sb.??
The best riders will always get to the front. It is more about the faster regional riders (not on a national skill level) trying to earn what contingency is possible, especially tire money. It just appeared the Ducati 1098 was a crazy fast machine. It was just my observation, but then recently i hear similar things from others including some faster regional riders.

[Super Dave]

I'm in agreement with Greg. 

[Eric Kelcher]

Ugh timed out

2007-2008 1098 is 1098cc 1098R is 1198cc 1098R adds factory traction control with related pick-ups etc, VIN/EIn coding, plus 90% sure the cylinders are stamped with displacement, and we have tools to spot check displacement.

1098 was never allowed into Heavyweight(750) Supersport and comparisons were made of Superbikes, the numbers were found to be the same between Ducati 1098 superbike and GSXR750(815cc) at roughly 140hp as measured on Factory Pro dyno.

Ducati 1098 may appear to be a crazy fast machine when compared to bikes riding up 1, 2, 3 + classes likewise a Supersport SV650 would say running Middleweight Superbike a R6 that was 660cc, with carbon fiber wheels, Ohlins SB suspension, slicks, etc was also crazy fast.

Rules commitee had to compare apples to apples which meant upper limits of rules; not what most people rode in a class, cost, reliablity or any other limit.

[MELK-MAN]

THanks for the explanation Eric. Will see how things go this season. May work out just fine, and the bikes MAY be fair in respective classes I just hope CCS will keep an eye on things and an open mind, as well as open ear to what riders say.

[RAISING CANE]

Just for the record, My complaints were not in an attempt to get the Duc pulled from comp. mid season. I agree that would be over kill and unfair. Only that the rules be reviewed and changed for future seasons if needed. On a final note WSB, argueably the closest, most intense series for the last few years runs the Duc against the liter bikes

[MELK-MAN]

On a final note WSB, argueably the closest, most intense series for the last few years runs the Duc against the liter bikes

That was were i was initially getting my "WTF" look on my face when i saw them lining up last year. THen i found there were 2 models, one with traction control, etc. However it gets back to anyone with the $ to buy the "tame" one will make it "not-so-tame" if given the oportunity, and the contingency gives the motive.

[TStinson]

The 1098R (1198cc) bike is a totally different machine from the 1098 and 1098S bikes, in terms of engine size, titanium internals, traction control, etc.  I think the new rules of eliminating the 1198cc Ducati's (1098R and '09 1198's) is fair against HWSB machinery. I have ridden my 1098 on the track with a 1098R and at Summit point I was passed on the straight like I was standing still. Huge difference in these machines.

As far as a simple visual, all 1198cc Ducati's come from the factory with a black swingarm.  The 1099cc 1098 Ducati's are silver.

[Super Dave]

As far as a simple visual, all 1198cc Ducati's come from the factory with a black swingarm.  The 1099cc 1098 Ducati's are silver.

I can fix that for $5.

[ahastings]

That was were i was initially getting my "WTF" look on my face when i saw them lining up last year. THen i found there were 2 models, one with traction control, etc. However it gets back to anyone with the $ to buy the "tame" one will make it "not-so-tame" if given the oportunity, and the contingency gives the motive.

your talking about one class hwt superbike-the only contingency in that class is tire money. Considering you are bumping up into that class anyway a true 750 superbike would blow awy your r6 on horsepower just as much as duc 1098 superbike. After a little more research it is easy to tell a 1098r or 1198 from an actuall 1098
1) the 1198 will be a 2009 model they werent made in 08 or 07
2) the 1098r will have wheel speed sensors on the front wheel for the traction control system.
As for someone building their 1098 motor into an 1198 well nothing you can do about that any more then say someone dropping a 750 motor in their 600 and running mw superbike.

[Super Dave]

your talking about one class hwt superbike-the only contingency in that class is tire money. Considering you are bumping up into that class anyway a true 750 superbike would blow awy your r6 on horsepower just as much as duc 1098 superbike. After a little more research it is easy to tell a 1098r or 1198 from an actuall 1098
1) the 1198 will be a 2009 model they werent made in 08 or 07
2) the 1098r will have wheel speed sensors on the front wheel for the traction control system.
As for someone building their 1098 motor into an 1198 well nothing you can do about that any more then say someone dropping a 750 motor in their 600 and running mw superbike.

Buell pays manufacturer contingency in every CCS Heavyweight Superbike event.

[ktd]

Nobody seems 2 care about Buell 1125