DUC 1098 in HEAVY WT?? WTF..

[bambam]

Thanks for the info, didn't know that, but it certainly makes HW SS more reasonable.

Still though, for HW SB, a 1098 is competitive with a built 750, and that's before the 1098 motor has even been touched.

Also, as Melk-Man pointed out, the ability to tell the difference easily at tech inspection is very difficult.

pre printed protest forms and the money to remove the heads. (dont remember what that is now)

[ahastings]

greg, was it an issue in 07 and 08? because the rule hasnt changed other then to exclude the 1198 and the 1098R(which is really 1198cc). I do see your point that externally you cant tell the difference, but then again a gsxr 600 and 750 look pretty much the same externally as well. How many 750s do you think get run in the 600 class every year? a stock 1098 makes rwhp around 135 hp+- vs a stock 750 at around 125hp +-vs a stock 1000 in the 155 hp+ - range. yes its a little stronger then a 750 just as the 848 is a little stronger then a 600 but they dont rev near as quick as the I4.

[MELK-MAN]

greg, was it an issue in 07 and 08? because the rule hasnt changed other then to exclude the 1198 and the 1098R(which is really 1198cc). I do see your point that externally you cant tell the difference, but then again a gsxr 600 and 750 look pretty much the same externally as well. How many 750s do you think get run in the 600 class every year? a stock 1098 makes rwhp around 135 hp+- vs a stock 750 at around 125hp +-vs a stock 1000 in the 155 hp+ - range. yes its a little stronger then a 750 just as the 848 is a little stronger then a 600 but they dont rev near as quick as the I4.

that is a little better.. is there a Duc that puts out 165+ or more stock? i may be thinking of the 1198 R model or something. The 750 does look alot like the 600 but on track racing side by side you can usually tell. The Duc's however look so much alike, it would take someone familiar with the models to know. Im only complaining cause i dont' have the minerals to step up n buy a bigger bike again.

[ahastings]

well the 1098R puts out some big number but it is actually 1198cc and is excluded from the class. I think you would be able to tell the difference just like with the 750 vs the 600 because of the acceleration of the bike. Rumor is Ducati is possibly dropping contingency anyway so if that happens I think there will be less of them being raced. I know my 848s will be up for sale as soon as I find out officially. I'm probably going to race a 750 myself if this is the case.

[Eye-p]

165 stock? No way.

A well tuned (pipes, ECU, etc...)1098 will make between 150-155 if you get a good one.
The 1098R (1198) in the same state of tune will add between 10-15hp to the 1098.

The 1198 will likely make 160-165 after tuning. Again, this version is NOT legal for the HWT stuff.

In truth, you can just look at the VIN number or model year sticker. All 2009 bikes will have the 1198 capacity while the older bikes are 1098.

[MELK-MAN]

nobody has a 2009 Duc that i know of. I see A BUNCH of 07-08 1098 bikes however. At Homestead this weekend there were no FEWER than 10 DUcati 1098 bikes, some of which the riders admitted the HP was over 190. HOW is that a HW bike?
Does WERA allow these bikes in heavy wt classes??

[ahastings]

greg, do you really believe that 190hp. that would practically be a factory superbike. Unfortunatelly for you there are a lot of Ducati people with money in Florida which is not the case in most other regions. As for WERA the 1098 is allowed only in B superbike but must remain superstock legal otherwise the limit is 1000cc twins. WERA's B class is the same as CCS Hvywt.

[Eye-p]

The 2007 and 2008 1098R is an 1198 which might get close to 190hp with a shit load of money thrown at it. The black swingarm was the easy visual cue that it is an R, instead of the silver swingers on the regular bikes.
I agree with you that the R has no business racing in HWT, and CCS agrees as they have a displacement limit for twins.

I have a feeling that the guys you were talking with are either full of shit about their HP figures, or they are extremely well funded. An R starts at about $40k and getting the power to that lever, well, god knows what that would cost.

[MELK-MAN]

The 2007 and 2008 1098R is an 1198 which might get close to 190hp with a shit load of money thrown at it. The black swingarm was the easy visual cue that it is an R, instead of the silver swingers on the regular bikes.
I agree with you that the R has no business racing in HWT, and CCS agrees as they have a displacement limit for twins.

I have a feeling that the guys you were talking with are either full of shit about their HP figures, or they are extremely well funded. An R starts at about $40k and getting the power to that lever, well, god knows what that would cost.

not full of it.. guys in FL spend some serious $ on bikes. The fact there were that many at a TRACK day at Homestead speaks volumes. Why race em if you DONT spend some cash to make em better is what we see down here.
I "participated" (was hardly racing) in the formula 40 event at Daytona. Marco M. came by me on the banking faster than any bike i had ridden with up to that point (did'nt do the 1000cc practice sessions). And my r6 is not slow.
I just do not really understand if heavy wt was for 750cc bikes or smaller, why is there a bike with OVER 1000cc in the class? I like the WERA rule and keep them in superbike. A bored 750cc bike is getting up there in displacement, and if your willing to spend money on rebuilds every 500miles you can get a reliable155hp from a 750.

[djduc748l]

I love my 2008 Trebour Racing 1098S and cant wait to finally start from the first wave this season!
I track day with a buddy who has a 2mil over GSXR 750 with a few more goodies and honestly that thing will pull the Duc no prob on top end, down low the Duc will hold its own, but up top, no contest...
I ran that bike with bone stock suspension all season and after seeing what Thermosman did to my GSXR 1k at Daytona I cant wait to ride the Duc with properly setup suspension!
Are the rumors true that Ducati may cut contingency this season out???
That would really suck!
See you guys at the races!

Dennis

[RAISING CANE]

Yes Greg don't you just love it!!!   check the history over at the jennings site. Complaints started early in the season from several guys, like Mike Rulo, Mark Carbahal, myself.... Letters were written...e-mails were exchanged....with Eric Kelcher.   his responce to me half way thru the season was that there was no domination by the 1098 or 1198. But my search of all ccs finishes at the time was like 13 wins and several top 2 and 3. Now with only maybe 6-10 of these running against many many other brands on paper it looked like total domination to any one who chose to look!!! Eric's responce after my evidence was that these rules were put into place way back at the end of the 07 season and people purchased bikes based on these rules so no changes were going to happen. I was in a fierce points battle with Ric Ortiz on his 1098 wich came down to the last 2 laps of our last race. I won the am F40 title but only due to a T10 crash by Ric with a 6sec, lead. I have spoken with many experts and mechanics at the races ( Marco, Sean Preito, Eric Gray etc.) and not 1 person view it as fair. It was sick to watch the torque monster launch of the line at the start and pull 4-5 bike lengths by T1 race after race. I would just put my head down and hope for trouble with lappers or a mistake on his part. In the GTO races the Duc ran very well against the 1000'S   I'm with Mike R (he pulled ouy of F40 early in the season for this reason) in the belief that Ducatti bought them selves some championships across the country and even with many people crying foul they saw fit to only eliminate the 1198 and allow the 1098 to run UNSB and F40. Don't get me wrong I love the 1098 but if you are gonna let it run F40 than the 1k should be allowed in also. My humble opinion is that it should run unlimited classes only!!!!!!!

[MELK-MAN]

Yes Greg don't you just love it!!!   check the history over at the jennings site. Complaints started early in the season from several guys, like Mike Rulo, Mark Carbahal, myself.... Letters were written...e-mails were exchanged....with Eric Kelcher.   his responce to me half way thru the season was that there was no domination by the 1098 or 1198. But my search of all ccs finishes at the time was like 13 wins and several top 2 and 3. Now with only maybe 6-10 of these running against many many other brands on paper it looked like total domination to any one who chose to look!!! Eric's responce after my evidence was that these rules were put into place way back at the end of the 07 season and people purchased bikes based on these rules so no changes were going to happen. I was in a fierce points battle with Ric Ortiz on his 1098 wich came down to the last 2 laps of our last race. I won the am F40 title but only due to a T10 crash by Ric with a 6sec, lead. I have spoken with many experts and mechanics at the races ( Marco, Sean Preito, Eric Gray etc.) and not 1 person view it as fair. It was sick to watch the torque monster launch of the line at the start and pull 4-5 bike lengths by T1 race after race. I would just put my head down and hope for trouble with lappers or a mistake on his part. In the GTO races the Duc ran very well against the 1000'S   I'm with Mike R (he pulled ouy of F40 early in the season for this reason) in the belief that Ducatti bought them selves some championships across the country and even with many people crying foul they saw fit to only eliminate the 1198 and allow the 1098 to run UNSB and F40. Don't get me wrong I love the 1098 but if you are gonna let it run F40 than the 1k should be allowed in also. My humble opinion is that it should run unlimited classes only!!!!!!!

VERY interesting.. the response by CCS to another rider and friend of mine that has complained was "nobody complained"..