NEED HELP! F2'S IN LIGHTWEIGHT CLASSES!

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

Has an F2 ever done a 1:12 at Blackhawk?  I'm sure a few good riders have raced them.

I did a 45 sec lap there on my F2.


Although my lap timer picked up an errant becon signal.

[HAWK]

No, that was the same beacon it just got blown across the paddoc by the huricane following you up the front straight.

[sauce]

f2's dont rule the thunder bike class chirs,their top 5  frist sv(ed)then buells(paul james) then buell then f2's.i would like to see some one run a 1:12 on a f2 dave,when the f3's were the hot bike to have most dudes ran 1:14-1:15's,iam not sayn it cant be done but would like to see it done,hell dave you can run my bike and do what ever you need to the susp. oh ron i mean nat champ you know im your hero.

[Super Dave]

Well, two seconds dropped off the lap times at Blackhawk from the old track to the new track between 2002 and 2003.  That's evident in lap times from the lap record, my personal times, and I would venture to say Ed's times.  I know that his fastest lap times on an SV are 1:13's. 


Regardless, back to the original topic, I just don't see where an F2, or any liquid cooled 600cc motorcycle from reasonably modern production, is a lightweight bike. 

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

Regardless, back to the original topic, I just don't see where an F2, or any liquid cooled 600cc motorcycle from reasonably modern production, is a lightweight bike. 

In car racing they call it a performance index.  It works really well.  Classes get shuffled every year or two.  The grids are full and everyone is happy.  Did I mention that the grids are full?

Now Dave,  I just can't resist poking you with a stick. (At least I'm honest....)  We'd already ruled out the F2 for Supersport, so that leaves the Lightweight modified classes.  Do I recall a certain 2-stroke project in somebody's garage that would conceivably be a 100% legal lightweight cheater bike?  I can't concieve an air-cooled 750cc 2 stroke in lightweight....  (poke, poke)

[Super Dave]

It's actually a 500.  And it's legal for ultra lightweight superbike.  I'd have to look at the rules, but the H2 is probably legal too.

That still requires me to use a stock frame.  I'll be running spoked 18" wheels.  I certainly have the opportunity to do something else, but CCS is never the focus for that bike, if it ever gets finished.  But I'd enjoy racing it at Blackhawk.  I'd want to put it into the 1:16 range if I can get it close to being right.

We could run the 1969 CR750 in lightweight too.  That makes power pretty close to a current 600.  Lighter than my SV1000 too.  Again, OEM frame.  But the cost of a build like that is above what Ed's put into his SV. 

[Ducati23]

I don't like the idea of allowing F2/F3 in any lightweight classes, but it seems to make sense when compared with air cooled Buells, BMW's & Ducati's. In Thunderbike and LW F40 the F2 hasn't been dominate. Good luck getting this passed. Send Eric the request with your supporting arguments.


I think that twins should be given more latitude against the fours given current levels of technology and performance. The new Ducati 848 should be racing in middleweight classes. It's about the same power and weight as the 2008 600's are. It's not a homologation racing special, very standard kit. I've petitioned to Eric for this rule change, it makes sense. 

We need rules that make sense and fill grids, not rules that make it difficult to race and keep riders away.

[Super Dave]

Ah, lord...

Give everyone trophies.

My SV1000 makes less HP than a 600 and weighs more.  That should be in Middleweight or Thunderbike too. 

Continued restructuring and restructuring of rules to accomodate  things like 32 bit processor bikes vs analog bikes will just make it worse and make this even more stupid.  As it is, track days are still run what you brung, and that's working because of that. 

[Ducati23]

 



David, no trophies needed only plaques and lap record slips! tOm

[Super Dave]

Hey, number thirty-two, don't forget, the mind is a terrible thin'...

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

Ya know, I'm not looking for an argument.  I think what I said makes perfect sense.  I don't even have a stake in it.  There's no F2 in my garage, nor any other lightweight bike.  But if the same group of bikes have proven to be competitive against one another in Thunderbike, why not let them compete in other classes together?  That's been my whole point and it seems that my point has not been addressed.

It's race three, and here's a bushel of apples on the grid.  Now it's race five, and some of the apples have turned to oranges?  WTF?

I've said what I had to say.  These days I don't argue for argument's sake any more.

[Super Dave]

I can say the same thing.  My production based SV1000S is pretty competitive against Thunderbike based machines.  It's certainly not able to keep up in a straight line against current production 600s even though it is a heavyweight bike.  Why not let let it run in Thunderbike and LWGP and LWSB?

I don't have an F2 anymore.  But I know what it was capable of.