NEED HELP! F2'S IN LIGHTWEIGHT CLASSES!

[F2RGK]

  Here goes:

  I would like to see the Honda F2's allowed in the lightweight classes.  Some of my reasons are based on the previous Thunderbike Post with the HP Vs. Weight dilemma.  Buell's can enter these classes with over 100HP, but I can't.  The SV's are definately competitive as well, just look at the results.  They run lightweight classes, Thunderbike and take wins, however, we can't do the same.  So I believe the unfair advantage rule doesn't count.  The other reason I have is that others would like to be able to enter other races competitively.  This would mean more money for Kevin E.  and promote the sport since it is easier and less expensive for new riders to get an older bike and race before they upgrade.  I have to admit, I do enter other classes such as middleweight GP just to have some fun.  I really don't want to go into a huge debate here, so I want to keep this short and ask you (who are interested) to allow the F2's in.  I could obviously give more points or an opinion but I want to leave that up to the readers.  So email away or email Kevin to possibly
look into this! 

Thanks Everyone! 

[benprobst]

No.

[limelight]

I do not understand the logic of allowing F2s in LW40 but not the other LW classes.  I currently have an F2 and do well in LW40.   At least allow them in LWGP if nothing else.

[F2RGK]

No.

Does this mean you're scared?

[Burt Munro]

Does this mean you're scared?

Kind of hard for him to know what's out there to be scared of when the only CCS he ran was at Gateway!

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

F2's (and any other 600 I4) dont belong in any regular LW class (ss, sb, gp). Honestly I wish they would had left the sportsmans class (which thunderbike was derived from). It was a place for older bikes. How about a class for discontinued bikes with a min age of 8 yrs? More of a fun class.

[Super Dave]

I'm with Rob.

In 1993, my CBR600F2 made 93HP in Supersport trim.  I don't know of any lightweight supersport bikes that make that kind of power.

[EX_#76]

No.

  Here goes:

  I would like to see the Honda F2's allowed in the lightweight classes.  Some of my reasons are based on the previous Thunderbike Post with the HP Vs. Weight dilemma.  Buell's can enter these classes with over 100HP, but I can't.  The SV's are definately competitive as well, just look at the results.  They run lightweight classes, Thunderbike and take wins, however, we can't do the same.  So I believe the unfair advantage rule doesn't count.  The other reason I have is that others would like to be able to enter other races competitively.  This would mean more money for Kevin E.  and promote the sport since it is easier and less expensive for new riders to get an older bike and race before they upgrade.  I have to admit, I do enter other classes such as middleweight GP just to have some fun.  I really don't want to go into a huge debate here, so I want to keep this short and ask you (who are interested) to allow the F2's in.  I could obviously give more points or an opinion but I want to leave that up to the readers.  So email away or email Kevin to possibly
look into this! 

Thanks Everyone! 

There is no way that they belong in LWSS, maybe SB

[roadracer162]

According to the Ducati site the 1000 makes 92 HP. I have been told that Jason Edmonds (CCS #17) Ducati DS1000 makes 95-98 HP in Supersport race trim.

As for my built FZR600 bored to 630 according to Prieto Racing in Pompano makes 98 rwhp.

I am curious as to what Eric Helmbach's F2 has for motor and the power it produces. It was pretty fast at Daytona in March.

The underlying statement that I have heard is that an inline four will never be a LW bike.

I will be relegated to running the LW F40 and Thunderbike only.

 
From the Ducati site;
Type:   L-Twin cylinder, 2 valve per cylinder Desmodromic, air cooled   
Displacement:   992cc   
Bore and stroke:   94 x 71,5mm   
Compression Ratio:   10.01   
Power*:   67.7 kW - 92 HP @ 8000 rpm   
Torque*:   91.1 Nm - 9.3 kgm @ 6000 rpm   
Fuel system:   Marelli electronic fuel injection, 45mm throttle body   
Exhaust:   Black exhaust system with one muffler per side   
Emissions:   Euro 3   
Transmission     
Gearbox:   6 speed   
Ratio:   1st 37/15, 2nd 30/17, 3rd 27/20, 4th 24/22, 5th 23/24, 6th 24/28   
Primary drive:   Straight cut gears; Ratio 1.84:1   
Final drive:   Chain; Front sprocket 15; Rear sprocket 39   
Clutch:   Wet multiplate with hydraulic control   
Notes:   * = Data calculated using an inertia dynamometer   

[EX_#76]

According to the Ducati site the 1000 makes 92 HP. I have been told that Jason Edmonds (CCS #17) Ducati DS1000 makes 95-98 HP in Superot race trim.

As for my built FZR600 bored to 630 according to Prieto Racing in Pompano makes 98 rwhp.

 
From the Ducati site;
Type:   L-Twin cylinder, 2 valve per cylinder Desmodromic, air cooled  
Displacement:   992cc  
Bore and stroke:   94 x 71,5mm  
Compression Ratio:   10.01  
Power*:   67.7 kW - 92 HP @ 8000 rpm  
Torque*:   91.1 Nm - 9.3 kgm @ 6000 rpm  
Fuel system:   Marelli electronic fuel injection, 45mm throttle body  
Exhaust:   Black exhaust system with one muffler per side  
Emissions:   Euro 3  
Transmission    
Gearbox:   6 speed  
Ratio:   1st 37/15, 2nd 30/17, 3rd 27/20, 4th 24/22, 5th 23/24, 6th 24/28  
Primary drive:   Straight cut gears; Ratio 1.84:1  
Final drive:   Chain; Front sprocket 15; Rear sprocket 39  
Clutch:   Wet multiplate with hydraulic control  
Notes:   * = Data calculated using an inertia dynamometer  

I don't think the Ducati 1000 belongs in SS either (sorry George) SB and everything else OK. 

[roadracer162]

Guy I absolutely agree with you. I do think it would be ok in the LWSB and LWGP classes though.

Mark

[George_Linhart]

Ron,

I made the exact formal rules change request in each of the prior two years.  Each year I was flatly told that it absolutely wasn't going to happen.

Here was the logic from Kevin and Eric when I had called them to discuss their position.  Thunerbike is basically the old Sportsman class and LW bikes entering this is considered a "bump up" race.  LW F-40 is based on Thunderbike rules, rather than LW rules (a bit odd, but that is what I was told).

Personally the only issue I would have with the rules change now is that I just sold mine.  From a fundamental perspective I wouldn't have an issue with them in LW GP or GT Lights (hell, the 250 GP bikes are faster so no problem there) or Superbike.  I don't run SS so I've got no dog in that hunt.

I do know that my F2 was much faster than my Ducati.  If people complain that the Ducati is a cheater LW bike then I don't think you will have much popular support for bringing in the F2's into the general LW grids.

Go ahead and follow the proceedure for suggesting a rules change.  See if you get any better response than I did.

George