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Super Sport Question

Started by paco, January 10, 2007, 10:56:42 PM

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paco

If I change the internals of my forks, does that eliminate me from the super sport class? Thanks in advance. :cheers:

Woofentino Pugrossi

No. Just states forks must appear stock.
Rob
CCS MW#14 EX, ASRA #141
CCSForums Cornerworking and Classifieds Mod

paco

OK, I see. Thanks so much for the info, I am very new to this.

JBraun

 :preachon:
I think it sucks. I'm broke already building a competitive 600, and we haven't even turned a wheel yet.
We need a stock class...
ASRA/CCS MW #29
Lithium Motorsports
Suspension Solutions
PIRELLI

Court Jester

Quote from: JBraun on January 13, 2007, 11:02:02 AM
:preachon:
I think it sucks. I'm broke already building a competitive 600, and we haven't even turned a wheel yet.
We need a stock class...

that would be awesome. a totally stock class. nothing but different plastic.
CCS# 469
WWW.SUPERBIKESUNLIMITED.COM


Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "WOOOHOOO! What a freaken ride"

Woofentino Pugrossi

ironically pure stock classes can turn into the most expensive classes and the amount of cheating really skyrockets. Also you'd have to figure a way out to "seal" a stock motor after being inspected and usually that would require everyone to use the same model bike. Supersport pretty much is a 'stock' class. Other than you can change teh rear shock out and redo teh fork internals, allowed a valve job to a certain spec, remapping/rejetting and exhaust (which most streetbikes have done anyways) and certain safety mods (case guards, belly pan, saftey wire) everythign else has to be stock.
Rob
CCS MW#14 EX, ASRA #141
CCSForums Cornerworking and Classifieds Mod

Super Dave

Like Rob said, there's cheating.

Secondly, the expense of OEM replacement parts like exhaust systems and such develop a higher cost. 

You don't have to go crazy with expenses to necessarily be competitive, period.  Some riders get all kinds of cute parts but can't utilize them.  Where's the value? 
Super Dave

JBraun

I get both points, and I completely agree about the cheating.

However, supersport is the least modified class we get, and the bikes at the front are running fork internals, shocks, master cylinders, pissed off motors, quickshifters, full TI exhaust systems etc, etc.  You could run half a season on those reciepts alone!!

A stock class is a pipe dream, I realize it would never happen. But I would love to see something with similar rules to the Suzuki cup.  Stock bikes, you can change spring rates and bodywork, nothing more. I would even lobby for spec tires, ie: pilot powers or dunlop qualifiers.

I've thought about all the angles, and the current system has it's advantages. For example, right now a competitive ss legal bike can win sb races, which is nice because you don't need to show up with two bikes.
But it would still be cool to put it all on the rider, and may the best man win. Of course we'd also run clean out of excuses.  :biggrin:

Dave, I don't spend money for bling, trust me. I raced my GSXR last year with a slip-on, penske double and stock forks. It was what I could afford. I struggled to get that bike into the 1:13s at BHF, and flirted with the top five.
I don't think I'm going to spend a bunch of money on parts, and go race with Andy and Brian next year, those guys (and many others) will still kick my ass. I just wanna level the playing field.
ASRA/CCS MW #29
Lithium Motorsports
Suspension Solutions
PIRELLI

Woofentino Pugrossi

Quote from: JBraun on January 13, 2007, 11:14:31 PM
I get both points, and I completely agree about the cheating.

However, supersport is the least modified class we get, and the bikes at the front are running fork internals, shocks, master cylinders, pissed off motors, quickshifters, full TI exhaust systems etc, etc.  You could run half a season on those reciepts alone!!
Still motor mods are kept to a minimum. I can only think of 2 things you can do to a ss motor and stay legal. 1mm overbore (still must use OEM parts and be the same C/R) and a supersport valve job. Thats it for internals. Everything else MUST stay stock. A full ti exhaust is nice, but unless its GIVEN TO ME FREE, I aint paying $1500 for one. Last I heard the master cyl has to be stock sized. Only reason I could think that you would want to use aftermarket ones are if your bike is rarish and parts are hard to comeby. One thing I'd like to see added to ss rules is a requirement that the bikes still have the charging/starting system ON the bike and functional.

Quote
I've thought about all the angles, and the current system has it's advantages. For example, right now a competitive ss legal bike can win sb races, which is nice because you don't need to show up with two bikes.

Thing is most (my guess 90%) of the bikes in superbike classes ARE supersport prepped.

I know where you are coming from. When I quit racing full size cars, I started racing R/C cars. Running a stock class ($27 27 turn stock motor with a $35 battery by rule) was costing me more than running modifieds ($80 10T motors unlimited battery). The stock motors were so high strung they lasted 4-5 runs before they were "junk". Plus we've caught guys putting timed brushes and intermediat windings (14-18Turn) into stock cans. People were putting exotic battery cells into stock battery cases. 3-4 racers being dq'd a day was normal. Mind you this is REMOTE CONTROL RACING and people were cheating so they could get a $5 piece of wood. Its pathetic to watch a guy in his 40's purposely ramming a kids car because the kid was a better driver.
Rob
CCS MW#14 EX, ASRA #141
CCSForums Cornerworking and Classifieds Mod

Super Dave

Quote from: JBraun on January 13, 2007, 11:14:31 PM
However, supersport is the least modified class we get, and the bikes at the front are running fork internals, shocks, master cylinders, pissed off motors, quickshifters, full TI exhaust systems etc, etc.  You could run half a season on those reciepts alone!!
Suzuki World Cup was what you were refering to...not US Suzuki Cup.

As for all the things you list, there are fast guys like Larry Denning, who up until this year made a living racing for contingency money, didn't use some the things that you listed. 

Yeah, shocks are pretty necessary.  There is just more one can do with an aftermarket unit.  Stock units are getting better.  Fork internals.  I don't see that the full replacement cartridges are necessary.  I won races with stock internals with springs only.  Yes, we did improve the dampening quality by changing internals.

Pissed motors...see the thread about lap times an HP.  Give a 600 about 40 more HP and you'll have the power of a 1000...and, if you're an unbelieveable rider, you might go only a little faster...might.
Super Dave

paco

Alot of good info here. So, basically with my stock internals I will probaly not be competitive (assuming equal riders)?

Super Dave

No, doesn't mean that. 

Springs are first.  Geometry is a real important part too.  Then dampening. 

I wouldn't consider springs a part of "internals" as they are easy to replace. 

What bike?
Super Dave