LP Sport Rider Day using OUR practice ???!!!

[stevierayg]

Is there any particular reason the Pacific and Southwest events are having issues?  Is it due to racer turn out or the tracks charging more or a combination of both?  If you let the racers know what's happening they may actually be able to come up with some ideas to help...

[size=8]Good point Litespeed. Most of the folks who race are inteligent, logical people (many of whom are succesful business owners). I'm sure someone could offer suggestions for a solution to the problems.

So to answer your question, I think it is both in some aspect, but I'm not sure if it's the tracks that are charging more or if it's Clear Channel. Seems to me they are trying to turn amateur racing into a high-profit businss. That's something it was never meant to be and neveer will be, especially in those regions. If it is the tracks that are raising the prices, why has the cost of independent track days actually gone DOWN in the last year or so?

Also, isn't it ironic that the Pacific and Southwest events have been dubbed "financial disasters for the past two years" when that's the same time Clear Channel took over CCS? Do these rgions have more options for racing than some of the others? Or just smarter racers that aren't going to put up with the crap that Clear channel and CCS are dealing out?

 Looking at the big picture, raising gate and entry fees isn't the answer. Anybody ever heard the phrase "It's better to have little of a lot than a lot of a little"? Keeping it affordable for most people will promote more new interest while maintaining the patronage of existing racers. I spoke recently to a CCS racer (and business owner) who has supported the Southwest series tredemendously in the past two years (showing up for EVERY event and entering 6 to 8 races each time). He said he wouldn't be spending much time at the CCS events in the future because of the constantly increasing cost. Another past loyal supporter said "$100 for a family of four to attend the amateur races is just too far out of line"

To quote a member of the CCS track staff, "We can only hope that Clear Channel sells the CCS series before they run it into the ground"
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[r1owner]

Doesn't seem right to charge the racers.  I've raced cars for a long time as well, and in most instances, your entry fee includes one or two pit passes for crew.  I've NEVER been charged anything in addition to entry fee to get into the track...

I concur, I get really upset every time I pay that damn gate fee (as a racer) as well.

[sdiver68]

In this month's RRW comparison, CCS was found to have among the lowest in racing fees.  In their particular scenario, only $10 more per weekend than the lowest, and significantly lower than some.  I think I would need some type of quantitative analysis to prove to me that CCS is out of line.  The above analysis, the only one I've seen, seems to prove the opposite...

As for gate fees, they (the tracks, CCS, etc..) are going to get their $$ one way or the other.  Fine lower the gate fees or make then free, they will only increase the cost of each race.  The way the fees are structured now enourages racers to enter multiple events for best bang for the buck, albeit at a higher threshold to just get into the game.

Maybe you think CCS makes some outrageous profit?  Prove it to me and I'll help you open another race org.  Reality is they don't make much $$ at all.

[Dave_Alexander]

Also, isn't it ironic that the Pacific and Southwest events have been dubbed "financial disasters for the past two years" when that's the same time Clear Channel took over CCS?

It's also odd that "the past two years" was specifically pointed out.  That's how long the Pacific region has been in existence.  Now it's entirely possible that the SW region has been a financial disaster for much longer than that, but he didn't mention it.

Most SW racers I know have felt that ever since the Pacific region was formed we've been getting a little short changed.  CCS is trying hard to make the Pacific region a success by running more and more SW races in California.  Three years ago we ran 8-9 races in town and 3-4 out of town.  Now it's just the opposite.  I do appreciate the opportunity to ride a variety of tracks, but I simply can't afford to run so many out of town events.  It's even worse when the double points weekend isn't on the home track.  Many racers I know feel the same way and have drastically reduced or eliminated their involvement.

As for gate fees, how is it that the local track days on the same track don't have any gate fees at all?  It's also worth mentioning that the SW gate fees have been cheaper than other places I've seen.

[T595]

RRW's comparison was made using last years fees, which where reasonable....
as for clear channel making money, `prove it' well clear channel would have to open up their books for anyone to `prove' that and that ain't gonna happen. I would assume that clear channel is trying to make the standard business minimums of 12% margin at the end of the year 10% overhead & 2% profit, spread over the nation this goal is probably met but for some reason pacific/southwest is not meeting quotas set by the corporation. This does trouble me as mentioned before the price of track rental has come down over the past two years sooooo. The only cost that has been rising is insurance which maybe the catch all `especially in California'...... and the only people getting rich off this are our elected officials and thats a whole other `can of worms'.....

[tzracer]

As stated above, CCS does not get the entire gate fee.

Also, does CCS pay the same for track rental as does a group renting for a track day? I called Blackhawk Farms once for a rental price when I worked at Buell. They asked what we were renting for, because the price varied. I wouldn't be surprised if CCS paid significantly more than an organization running a track day.

Racing is an expensive hobby. Motorcycle racing is one of the cheaper forms of racing.

[OldRacer]

CCS is cheaper than most other organizations.  I have run wera, and others and by and large CCS is cheaper.  

The real issue is much deeper than that.  Club racing has never been really organized and it seems that the more we add things like super motard and these other new classes the more fractured the race weekend becomes and the more ALL the events suffer.  like i pointed out yesterday, there are now 26 classes you can run with CCS and that's just absurd.  The weekend is divided up between so many classes you can't get a decent race in any more.  Racers need to figure out what's important and at what point do we need to stop supporting "bring what you got" classes that are representative of 5% of the market.

CCS needs to re-evaluate the entire formula and thing about providing a good solid base of 10-12 classes (not 26) that offer a broad range of interest across the board.  Maybe offering Double headr weekends for key classes like 600 supersport, superbike and 125's so young riders can get a chance to ride and develop more.  A good entry level, low cost class with easy to ride bikes that promote good riding skills that can be attractive to young riders 14 and up, a solid production supersport class, a good production superbike class woiuld be a good start.  Start weeding out the old FZR400's and RZ350's that are so tweaked and rebhuilt they don't even resemble the bikes they started out as.  Some of these grids look like a collection of garbage from Sanford and Sons.

CCS's failures in the SW aren't going to be solved in one year.  They need to identify the real problem, get the riders involved and engaged, modernise their operation and stop trying to cater to everyone with a some old piece of crap bike.  

If they start by offering a quality product and providing well scheduled events that allow for good setup and safe practice then I think the riders will come.  If they continue to provide mediocre events with compromised practice session and more time to street riders than racers (or better track time to street riders) then I fear they are going to continue the downward spiral.  As the quality improves the riders will show up, but CCS has a lot to overcome with quality programs like AFM to compete against.  They just have to do better if they want people to come to their events over others.  Since most of us don't have an infinite supply of money we have to choose who we race with and it's getting tougher and tougher to consider CCS in that decision.

The other issue is with tracks.  We have so many other opportunities in the west but CCS ignores the good tracks like Sears, Portland, and now Arizona.  I'm not saying they don't have some good tracks but who wants to race at Thunderhill in August?  I'd rather take a vacation to Death Valley in August, it's probably cooler.

 :-/

[tcchin]

Back to the gouge fee issue: When I used to have a Team Challenge team, we used to pay $160 in gate fees just to get the riders, crew and a couple family members into the paddock (always good to have an RN or SEAL Team medic around) for a one-day race that was typically truncated by nightfall half-way through. That's a bitter pill to swallow.

[USGPRU]

For those who may have missed it there is going to be a practice on Friday and they are even having one of the groups dedicated to 125 & 250 GP machines for those of us racing GP bikes.  So don't stay home thinking there's no practice when there will be plenty of good racing and practice Friday and Sunday.  

See you all there!  WOOHOO! It's racing season again!

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

Also, does CCS pay the same for track rental as does a group renting for a track day? I called Blackhawk Farms once for a rental price when I worked at Buell. They asked what we were renting for, because the price varied. I wouldn't be surprised if CCS paid significantly more than an organization running a track day.
quote]

No clue what CCS pays for BHF's for the weekend, but guessing near $12K. When a locla group rented BHF's out for a private track day with 44 riders it came out to approx $6600 and only 3-4 actual licensed racers were there. Now the prices most likely wentt up for renting it with the new paving.

[the_weggie_man]

BHF does have a scale for rentals depending on who or what you are, individuals are cheapest then it goes up for dealers, schools, clubs, race orgs and manufacturers.

The majority of the gate fee at BHF goes to CCS, the track takes a cut of each gate fee. I know what it was many years ago but not what the current cut is. I'm sure CCS gets 60-75% of it.  Riders should not pay gate fees or you should be allowed one free pass per rider for your wife, girly friend, crew guy or ????  

sdiver, don't kid yourself about how much CCS makes on a race weekend.  I'm sure some regions are down but I know Midwest is and always has been at or near the top of the heap for rider attendance and they make a good chunko'change around here.

I whole heartedly agree about the class mess. There are way too many. The ultra-lightweight thing  was such crap. There used to be a rule that said there needed to be 5 entries for a class. I think we actually had a 1 bike race out there last year, WTF? What's next .... scooters? Or maybe a touring class, full fairings including bags and foot boards required? CD players anyone?

[tzracer]

I think most racers will agree that there are too many classes. I know I would prefer fewer, but longer races. So which ones to do away with? Here is a list of the current classes (as per Kevin's post of the midwest schedule), classes listed together are run together.

Thunderbike/LW Sportsman
GTL
Formula 40
GTU
Middleweight Sportsman
GTO
MWGP
MW Superbike
LWGP
Supertwins
HW Superbike
GP Singles/Supersingles/ULW Sportsman
LW Superbike
ULGP
MW Supersport
HW Supersport
LW Supersport
UL Supersport
Sportbike

With some running together - effectively 19 classes.
So which classes could we really do without?