Moto GP/Formula 1

Started by Baltobuell, March 10, 2005, 04:56:43 PM

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K3 Chris Onwiler

Downforce is the main thing.  When Colin Chapman came up with the idea of ground effects on his Lotus 78, the Lotus cars were unbeatable until everyone else caught up.  Still, an F1 car couldn't use it's available brakes, downforce, or acceleration without a large contact patch.  The large tires make it possible for downforce and acceleration to be useful.  Motorcycle sized contact patches would be overwhelmed by the forces that an F1 car can generate.
If you forced F1 cars to go back to the wingless cigar shape that they used in the Sixties, I think a MotoGP bike would beat them, even though the F1 cars have such big tires.  Without downforce, those cars would be undrivable.
Figure it this way.  If contact patch were the answer, wouldn't the MotoGP bikes have huge, fat tires?  That might cure wheelspin, but the things wouldn't turn then.
If only we could have downforce on motorcycles....
The frame was snapped, the #3 rod was dangling from a hole in the cases, and what was left had been consumed by fire.  I said, "Hey, we've got all night!"
Read HIGHSIDE! @ http://www.chrisonwiler.com

EX#996

QuoteIf only we could have downforce on motorcycles....

K3, you already have downforce on the motorcycle....














.... more than most.   ;D

Paul and Dawn Buxton

K3 Chris Onwiler

Quote.... more than most.   ;D

Now THAT was just mean!
The frame was snapped, the #3 rod was dangling from a hole in the cases, and what was left had been consumed by fire.  I said, "Hey, we've got all night!"
Read HIGHSIDE! @ http://www.chrisonwiler.com

EX#996

QuoteNow THAT was just mean!


Just consider the source, Chris....

He's not far behind.   ;D    :-X  

Dawn   ;)
Paul and Dawn Buxton

251am

  It was about a year ago in one of the British superbike mags, the ones with centerfolds, where an F2 car was compared to a Rizla Suzuki. Bike won.

Sunny

#29
QuoteI'm willing to bet you can't find an example of that in the last 30 years.


I am not making this up.  They used to picked a race track and have a 500GP races a F1 and boardcast the race to demonstrated who is faster.  They don't start at the same grid line though as too close a racing would prove disastrous if the F1 wwas to be involved in a collision with the 500GP bike.  They are gridded not too far from each other if I remembered correctly.  It's set up to see if the trailing F1 can catch up and pass the bike or lose more ground.  I believe the last of this top racebike vs. top race car races I saw was in early 90's or late 80's.  The bike was still slightly faster then.

tzracer

The only direct comparison that I recall between a GP bike and an F1 car was done by Yamaha. Yamaha was supplying F1 engines at the time. The "race" was essentially a drag race including coming to a stop. The bike was faster until it was time to brake, the car could brake much harder than the bike. Overall it was close, about a draw.

As far as doing laps, I don't recall ever seeing a GP bike with a lap time lower than an F1 car at the same track in the same year. It is not even close.

In turn 1 at Indianapolis (trun 1 for the F1 track), the cars are at 200+mph slowing to about 85mph, they are not braking until about the 60m mark. It is amazing to watch.
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Sunny

Hmmmmm.........  I guess I am the only one who saw the race around the track...........  I am pretty sure that it wasn't a dream.  I know for sure that nowadays' F1s are much faster than any bike, but it was reversed in the old day with no electronics gadgets helping the F1 drivers and the tire technologies weren't as good (F1s back then spun out/crash out quite often).

Old808

QuoteHmmmmm.........  I guess I am the only one who saw the race around the track...........  I am pretty sure that it wasn't a dream.  I know for sure that nowadays' F1s are much faster than any bike, but it was reversed in the old day with no electronics gadgets helping the F1 drivers and the tire technologies weren't as good (F1s back then spun out/crash out quite often).
LOL @ the dream comment.  ;D

Remember this, though: a street bike today would whoop a GP bike from the old days.  Tire technology hasn't improved just for cars.  Not saying you're making stuff up, but I'll believe it when I see something more concrete.

Sunny

No problem, but I think I'll be able to dig the video out as I don't think anyone loaded stuffs like that on the internet back then.  Anyway, I am not eager to prove myself right like Dan.  It's ok with me if people don't believe that a 500GP was faster than a F1.  What matters is that F1 is truly undoubtably FASTER than any bikes now.   ;)