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Moto GP/Formula 1

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Baltobuell

Moto GP/Formula 1
« on: March 10, 2005, 04:56:43 pm »
 Does anybody remember a RRW article maybe a year ago saying the GP bikes at Suzuka had posted faster times than the F1 cars. I'm prone to dilusions but I thought I read that somewhere. Everthing I find shows the cars 30 seconds faster.
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tshort

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Re: Moto GP/Formula 1
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2005, 05:30:08 pm »
Maybe the Motogp bikes did it last year, compared to F1 cars in the early 90s?? ;)

Here is one discussion on that topic - a couple years old, but showing telemetry data on each: http://www.racing-forums.com/vb/archive/index.php/t-7631.html

Cars win - more rubber.
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Tom
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tigerblade

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Re: Moto GP/Formula 1
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2005, 05:21:47 am »
Maybe a higher top speed but like Tom said, I think the cars actually turn faster lap times because they have those huge contact patches.
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Younger Oil Racing

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Sunny

Re: Moto GP/Formula 1
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2005, 08:26:59 am »
Yes, it was long ago (at least a decade I believe) that 500GP bikes are clocking faster lap time than the F1 (when they have no launch, traction controls and other goodies).
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Old808

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Re: Moto GP/Formula 1
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2005, 08:56:22 am »
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Yes, it was long ago (at least a decade I believe) that 500GP bikes are clocking faster lap time than the F1 (when they have no launch, traction controls and other goodies).

I'm willing to bet you can't find an example of that in the last 30 years.
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Steviebee

Re: Moto GP/Formula 1
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2005, 09:00:28 am »
the bike have similar top speeds,  but the f1 cars have almost 60% the lap times.  quicker at some places.

The car have several g's of downforce.  bikes have almost none.  That plus 4x (maybe 10x) in contact patch and thier Hoofing thru the corners.
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Super Dave

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Re: Moto GP/Formula 1
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2005, 09:43:36 am »
Contact patch...

A bike has, at best, two business card size patches...but we all know that there are times when it's only one because of acceleration or braking.

Meanwhile...

Cars have four 8.5x11 patches.  

Does that illustrate it?


Additionally...

Old grandma's can still drive a car.  Probably not a bike.   ;D
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Super Dave

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TZDeSioux

Re: Moto GP/Formula 1
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2005, 10:36:02 am »
downforce biatches! Anyways.. the 500GP bikes were 2km faster at suzuka than the F1 cars in 2002 but the F1 cars turned lap times of around 30 seconds a lap faster. :)
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tshort

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Re: Moto GP/Formula 1
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2005, 11:19:35 am »
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downforce biatches! Anyways.. the 500GP bikes were 2km faster at suzuka than the F1 cars in 2002 but the F1 cars turned lap times of around 30 seconds a lap faster. :)


Yep - and not surprising, either.  You ever notice the brake markers down the front straight of many of the tracks we race at?  No? Yeah, most roadracing guys probably don't.  You know why?  Cuz by the time we get to them our rear wheels have already been hopping around for about 100 feet and our bikes are trying to spit us off over the front.  

The car guys, on the other hand, wait until, oh, maybe the 1.5 mark (ie, past 2, before 1), before they start their heel/toe dance, and pull their car down to something resembling a turn-in speed in not much distance.  Will they have hit the same top speed as a liter bike?  In many cases, no.  

But they aren't wasting a lot of time on the brakes, either.  

I've proved this to myself over and over again at Blackhawk and RA, where I've piloted both cars and bikes around.  And I'm only on a piddly SV.
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Tom
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tshort

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Re: Moto GP/Formula 1
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2005, 11:25:44 am »
And while we're on the topic of braking...would anyone care to guess which bike will stop faster from the same speed (say, 90 mph - since Harleys won't go much faster than that :) ) : a 2004 Harley Road King, or 2004 GSXR 1000?

Bueller? Anyone? Anyone?

Hint: it ain't the Gixxer :o  This is another clue as to why the car guys can get around so much faster - they don't have to worry about their rear axles coming up over the top. And neither do the HD guys.
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Tom
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Old808

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Re: Moto GP/Formula 1
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2005, 12:14:18 pm »
Contact patch area does a lot less for the cars than downforce.

I forget which track it was last year where the cars and bikes had the same top speed (about 330 kph) but:

- Capirossi braked at 300 meters, Schumacher at 85 meters.

- Hayden apexed at 160 kph, the F1 car at 260 kph.

That ain't mechanical grip (contact patch), folks.
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L8brake731

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Re: Moto GP/Formula 1
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2005, 12:33:42 pm »
MOTO GP would look really funny ::)with areo stuff and ground effects :D
Doesn't leave a whole lot of room for passing also.
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