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Rear Braking

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joey90

Rear Braking
« on: January 18, 2005, 07:52:08 pm »
Does anyone have any info on rear braking techniques as to when , where and how to use it ?
I read a few articles that say many top racers use it, but in the Kieth Code book it says NOT to use it . please let me know what your opinion is. Thanks
« Last Edit: January 18, 2005, 08:34:45 pm by joey90 »
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Woofentino Pugrossi

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Re: Rear Braking
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2005, 08:22:49 pm »
Not really.:D Mainly in the paddock at Blackhawk Farms gravel road. ;D
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Rob
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MJFRacing

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Re: Rear Braking
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2005, 09:03:11 pm »
Quote
Not really.:D Mainly in the paddock at Blackhawk Farms gravel road. ;D


Ditto!  :D

I think there are some advanced techniques that maybe some pro/expert level guys use but out on the track I've never used or needed rear brakes. Well, there was that time I ran off into the grass. . . but I said on the track!   ;D
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Michael - CCS 73


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cardzilla

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Re: Rear Braking
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2005, 03:14:08 am »
You can use it mid-corner to tighten a line.  Also, if you are deep into a corner too hot it is the safest way to bleed a few MPH.  That said, I can't do it with my foot, I need a thumb brake... which is far as I can tell is illegal in supersport so I don't use it.  I don't think it is worth the attention $ to worry about it unless you are MotoGP level talentwise, but if you did, I'd suggest the thumb brake... I have no idea how these guys use the foot brake accurately.
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Larry Dodson
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james-redsv

Re: Rear Braking
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2005, 04:07:14 am »
Just use it only if you run off the track and are in the grass or gravel.  ;D
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Super Dave

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Re: Rear Braking
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2005, 04:28:47 am »
Lots of personal preference here...

There are some real opportunities here.

Technique is the trick.  How much time do you have to work on it, and do you have a back ground that might have utilized it before?

Dirt trackers adapt to it really well.  But do they sacrifice some entry speed?  Jason Pridmore does really well with the front.  So does old Miguel DuHammel.  I've watched some traditional road racers try it for style, but sacrifice some corner entry speed.

Way leaned over, yeah, it can work well as you have a good deal of weight on the rear wheel by then...but do you have the ground clearance?

Are you able to use the front brake mid corner?  
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Super Dave

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stumpy

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Re: Rear Braking
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2005, 09:18:29 am »
You can also use the clutch to get engine to slow down the back tire too. I can kinda get it to come out a couple of inches which feels like a couple of feet. I can definetily see where it could be usefull and it looks cool 8) I will be working on it... It's also unlocking the door for a nasty high side too.



Stumpy
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Greg "Stumpy" Steltenpohl
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motomadness

Re: Rear Braking
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2005, 06:23:29 pm »
I've been watching AMA videos to capture a window where I think I'd like to try it.  If you've got some tapes of Road Atlanta, check out Mladin mid-corner in T10.  He uses the rear every time.  His technique appears to be after turn initiation before approaching full lean.  He maintain pressure until after he begins picking up the bike on the exit.  Some old WSBK races also have some visible usage.

On the Miguel thing, don't forget he uses a thumb brake also, following a leg injury years back.  Next time at Road America, get a good look at it.
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motomadness

Re: Rear Braking
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2005, 06:29:01 pm »
Also, GP Tech LLC. has a few thumb brake applications from Supermotard to SBK, etc.  In the smoto version, the master cylinder is setup up to lock the rear, but on the roadrace version, it just scrubs a little speed.  I think you can achieve a similar roadrace version with the foot master cylinder by putting a little air in the rear brake line.  It's not the safest setup, but if you are going to practice, you might as well increase your safety margin a little.  That being said, keep the rubber lines on as well for a little more slop.
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chris_chops

Re: Rear Braking
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2005, 03:22:00 pm »
FIND A FLATRACKER AND BEAT IT OUT OF HIM!!!

or maybe check this out

Get a dirtbike and ride it a lot.  With enough corner speed you can get the bike to come around.  If you have good throttle control you won't highside yourself while practicing.   Eventually, you can hone a technique in which you scrub speed off with the rear while getting the bike pointed in the direction of a late apex exit out of the turn.  Up by stumpy are some of the best dirt trails I have ever been on.  Miles and miles of practice on different dirt and different roads.
     After a good rain, some of these roads provide huge amounts of grip that aren't quite like road racing but they are enough to load the suspension up.
     I took what I learned and applied it to roadracing and here is what I found:  YOU HAVE TO BE GOING FAST AS HELL TO GET 'BACKING IT IN' TO WORK FOR YOU.  REALLY, REALLY FAST.
     It's all about not having grip in the rear going in to the turn.  This is the 'backing it in' part and almost any of us can do this.  This is the easy part.
     The problem is know you have to gather it in without a jerky transistion that upsets the bike, crosses it up, and spits you off into the distance.
    The thing you don't see on the speedtv is the guys that can do it have the front sliding a bit too.  This helps the whole process and helps quell the jerkiness.  The jerkiness that hurts real bad.  
    Now that you are comfortable at the ragged edge of control with front and rear sliding, you use your legs and the bars and a little bit of your butt to steer it and rocket out of the corner.  Using throttle control and slide control together in harmony while searching for grip and staying on the racing line.  Super easy, dude. ;D ;D

And no, I rarely have the balls to try this or much lesss pull it off on a roadrace track.  It mostly happens by accident when I am going a little bit faster than I should be into a corner.  Rushing it a bit.  With that said, on a dirtbike I am quite good at it with a ton of practice and SEVERAL FULL ON HIGHSIDES.  OUCH!!!

This is just my opinions.  Don't beat me up too bad if you think I'm all wrong.
         
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pmoravek

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Re: Rear Braking
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2005, 09:46:12 am »
I had a guy at one of the schools tell me the funniest thing.
"You can only get about %10 effectiveness out of using your rear brake...but I'll take that 10%"

That being said....I don't touch the back brake unless I'm in the grass or at tech.  ;D
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Super Dave

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Re: Rear Braking
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2005, 02:26:51 pm »
Quote
I had a guy at one of the schools tell me the funniest thing.
"You can only get about %10 effectiveness out of using your rear brake...but I'll take that 10%"


'bout right...

A motorcycle with a 50/50 weight bias...the rear wheel will have about 8.5% braking force straight up and down...with not front brake added.  Leaned over, the bike will distribute a little more weight to the rear as the traction gets used in the form of cornering force...You'll get more rear braking force.
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Super Dave