Rear Braking

[motomadness]

Here's a thought:

When you use the rear brake at the start of turn initiation and you are going really fast, using the rear brake will extend the shock, which will further reduce the trail and tighten the steering head angle, causing the bike to turn in more.  This will also increase rear traction at the same time through the shock's release of energy.

Issues:
Your shock needs to be setup for rear braking.  The rebound damping has to suit the turn in effect, and you've got to have enough rider's sag/free sag to allow shock movement.  I don't think this is a setup to get the backend far out of line with the bike because this is during turn initiation all the way through the apex and then some.

Of course I've never tried it before, but this year I'm going to put a thumb brake on my TTR and practice.  After I assemble it just come by my pit and I'll let you try it out.

[Super Dave]

Here's a thought:

When you use the rear brake at the start of turn initiation and you are going really fast, using the rear brake will extend the shock, which will further reduce the trail and tighten the steering head angle, causing the bike to turn in more.  This will also increase rear traction at the same time through the shock's release of energy.

Light ground here.

Turning in will put more weight on the rear shock as you're going from traction forces being used for braking force (weight forward) to cornering force (more distributed weight)...

[motomadness]

I agree.  I think the key might be the timing of your braking, timing of the turn-in and how much inertia (momentum) the bike still has to pitch the bike forward.  My thought is that if the wheels are still in line, the only way to turn the bike in more is to shorten the wheelbase / reduce your trail - not easy to do, but there's no other way.

Counter steering you say.  Maybe, but the effect might still be a momentary reduction in wheelbase, just more stabily controlled.

[Super Dave]

I My thought is that if the wheels are still in line, the only way to turn the bike in more is to shorten the wheelbase / reduce your trail - not easy to do, but there's no other way..

If you don't have the wheels in line, the lean angle of the rear tirw will be more than the lean angle of the front, thus, your effective lean angle will be more than the front.

When you will use the brake depends upon when you need to slow down to do what you need to do.  If you're going really fast and you need to go slow in the corner, you'll be using the brake before turn in.  If you're going into a fast corner, you might not initiate the brake until in the corner.  

Regardless, as you begin to turn, more weight will be on the back wheel and you will have more braking force available with the bike leaning over when compared to going straight on a motorcycle with a 50/50 weight bias.

[motomadness]

Regardless, as you begin to turn, more weight will be on the back wheel and you will have more braking force available with the bike leaning over when compared to going straight on a motorcycle with a 50/50 weight bias.

Good point.  That's kind of what I was getting at - taking advantage of the weight shift to use the rear brake in this technique.

[Rick Beggs]

man i hate to have an opinion so different than everyone else, but
the rear brake is required, so why not use it?
ever endo on the front brakes? i use the rear brake as soon as i let off the gas, on fast straights, to lower the rearend, 2 inches lower is 2 inches  more before it endos. , i hardly ever use it when turning, and it has got to help slow it down. i use the clutch a lot when initiating the turn to turn in faster

[Super Dave]

Hate to be a nay-sayer...

But regardless of which brake you use, the weight transfers forward.

One might be able to settle the suspension with the rear brake, if you're a violent front braker.  Really depends upon technique.

If you had an old bike with particular chassis geometry from about the early 70's, when you let off the gas and got on the brakes, yeah the rear would collapse, but that is a function more of the swingarm angle and the swingarm pivot location.  

One cannot slow down the bike with the rear like one would with the front.

If one is using 90% braking force with the front brake and the rear brake is added, it will still transfer weight forward.