Handling woes

[Speedballer347]

my 01/600gix wobbled a bit over stutterbumps and the rear shock was blown, so I sent them to traxxion for a rebuild.
Rebuilt rear, and rebuilt front completely...new cartridges even.

Put the forks and shock on, set the static sags and went to gateway.
bike was so stiff it was chattering on the smooth sections. tires were losing contact w/ pavement on bumpy sections (T1, T8, chicane).

We then used Mark Junge's settings on the compression/rebounds front & rear....no better.

We then backed the compression on the front all of the way out...it was better but still way to stiff. Also, it started locking the rear under braking because of the zero front compression.

Had gateway track record holder travis king from the defuct Paramount racing check it out...he said it was way too stiff even w/ the compressions out all the way. Local fast guy Mark Oldham said the front was way too stiff too. Another fast expert rode it and said he was chattering all over the place too.

I am into these forks for over a $grand$ at this point (original traxxion build, then complete overhaul) and am really unhappy.

Any suggestions on how to get this thing to absorb bumps? W/ the compression all the way out, do I now have to start softening up the preload's beyond the correct sag #'s???
I am lost

My frame and steering head bearings are new.
another weird thing is the rebound adjustments. nothing, nothing, then the width of a screwdriver blade and then you've gone too much  

No one was able to figure out why it was handling so stiff on the track.

my buddy has an 01/600 bike built by mark junge....traxxion forks and same rear shock as mine. bike handles unreal...soaks up every bump on the track and sticks like glue.
I have the same bike w/ the same suspension and it handles like utter crap.

any suggestions???
Thanks

[Protein Filled]

I would send them back to Traxxion and complain that the valving is off...or at  least start by calling them. If they set it up so that it's way to stiff all the way soft, then something is wrong. It wouldn't be the first time they mess something up.

Or cut your losses early and call Thermosman and have him fix their screw up.

[Super Dave]

Bingo...send 'em back.

He wouldn't want them to be like that either.  So, better to call and send 'em back ASAP.

[stumpy]

 Double Check the fluid level too, Too much or too little will cause suspension issues.



Stumpy

[r1owner]

I think its those crappy tires you were running.

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

     How did your shock get blown, did you have a crash or a really hard hit or something? If so maybe you have some frame issues?

     May seem like an obvious question but are your springs correct (possibly too stiff)?

     Your valves may require a bleed hole drilled in them and it may have been over looked by the assembler, easy to miss if in a hurry.

     The compression and rebound adjusters are intended for fine tuning only, they effect total fluid flow a rather small amount. If your valving is set incorrectly in the 1st place then the small amount of fluid flow control you have with those adjusters is not going to be enough to compensate. Those adjusters are basically just a bolt with a ' V ' point on the other end which seats down into a small hole. When the adjusters point is seated all the way against the orifice it resticts any fluid from traveling thru that passage (those adjusters are ultimately a bypass system past the internal valving). With that orifice blocked the fluid must all travel thru the valving assembly, which if the valving assembly is set correctly shouldn't be too awful handling. Depending on the pitch of the thread on an individual adjuster will determine how much each turn changes the amount of fluid that can pass thru the bypass system. Typically after 1 1/2 to 2 turns out from seated closed against the orifice (depending on thread pitch) you are now able to flow more fluid than the orifice itself can flow, so any further backing out of the thread will have little to no effect.

     Shim stacks in your valving assemblies are very sensitive to change and it would only take 1 shim in the stack being wrong for your application to make a significant difference in your bikes handling. I imagine this is where the problem is, they probably assembled the wrong shim stack. I would ask them what info they have for you for valving purposes (including your weight, bike, and racing aggresiveness level)? Make them tell you what info they have currently before offering any updated info for revalving purposes. :)

[james-redsv]

I have heard Traxxion has messed up other peoples stuff too, then they turn into a&%holes when you tell them they screwed up. :o Thats the word around the pits as I havent used them myself. I have heard too many horror stories, yours is just another, that I wouldnt take a chance using them. ;)

[Speedballer347]

Thanks Mike.
expert (midpack+ ....maybe better if I could ever get my bake to handle half way decent :P ) rider....190 lbs.
.925 traxxion springs and valving.
Penske 22-clicker.
traxxion and penske was from 2002 season.
Handled better than stock, but front-end was always wobbly on bumby sections.

2004 ...New frame....never crashed.

Don't know why the penske wouldn't hold a nitro charge....would always leak out.  Think I blew it doing stoppies on the street.

Rode sdivers(#68 ) traxxion/penske bike last month and it was phenominal. Couldn't feel ANY bumps on gateway.
Sent my penske and forks to traxxion for a refresh/rebuild, thinking my bike would handle the same.  $500 rebuild on the forks...said my dampers were shot, upgraded valve stack, etc, etc...
rebuilt penske.

10mm free sag in rear, 25mm free asag front.
Felt like I was riding on struts.  both ends chattering on smooth, and bouncing off pavement over bumps.

duplicated sdivers(Mark Junge's) settings...no better.
Backed front compression ALL way out, and about 12 cllicks out in rear.  Was better, but still stiff.
Then went 30mm free sag in front, better for bumps but started locking/chattering the rear under braking.

I am NOT happy.
I am gonna send them back again.  I am into these forks for over a grand and they have never been that great, now they are worse than when I sent them.
 :-/

[Speedballer347]

I have heard too many horror stories, yours is just another, that I wouldnt take a chance using them. ;)

They have to know what they are doing, sdivers/junge bike being an examle.
BUT, if my bike doesn't handle like sdiver's, after I get them back again....NEVER AGAIN! >:(

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

     Do you happen to know what spring rate Sdiver has in his bike? That .925 spring rate seems a bit much, but I don't have my chart with me to confirm that. Engines and suspension work like an orchestra, if you only have a couple of the instruments playing the music you'll probably still be able to recognize the tune, but it won't be anything like when the whole orchestra is playing it. Though I think your problem is probably in the valving, I still wonder if that spring rate is correct for you, because if it isn't it wouldn't allow the wheel to follow the road properly due to not enough weight/force being exerted to compress the springs. That possibly could be a variable in the overall suspension issues your having.

     Though I am quite familiar with the internal workings of suspension, I currently lack in the set-up department as far as setting up a bike. I have this ability, or more like curse, of being very adaptive to riding what ever the bike is throwing at me for handling, and settling for that as being how it's going to be, when ultimately I should be seeking a better set-up. In order to get the bike set-up end of things correct I am now a student of the almighty "SuperDave". I'm really looking forward to getting my latest bike dialed in with his guidance. :)

[Super Dave]

    Do you happen to know what spring rate Sdiver has in his bike? That .925 spring rate seems a bit much, but I don't have my chart with me to confirm that.

Should be fine.  That's what we had in my GSXR.

I work with http://4and6.com and http://hyperprousa.com.  The Hyperpro Springs are rising rate...meaning that as they are compressed, the rate increased.  On my R6, as they get compressed, they are way more than .925.

[Protein Filled]

Hey Dave,

I have heard that the Hyperpro rising rate springs can feel kind of odd while riding hard since they are not linear. What do you think? I take it that you like them. Did it take a while to get used to them?