Roadracers are junkies........

[G 97]

Answer the question? And its not tacky , I knew them...

What question.  You have answered nothing.  Still tacky. ;D

[G 97]

For the record, riders have voted to not return to a track and we have never been back. After the first CCS race a Putnum, at the next race a vote was held at the riders meeting. We voted to not return to Putnum. At least one race (not sure if there was one or two more races at Putnum that year) was canceled and we have never returned.

Not sure on the specifics with this but if memory serves me correctly continuing to run at Putnam had very little to do with safety issues and everything to do with track management and the relationship with CCS vise-versa etc.   So the same riders who deemed Putnam to be too unsafe to race at continue to race at Gateway????  This does not make sence considering both the AMA, CMRA and WERA have deemed Gateway to dangerous.  And WERA still races at Putnam.  The only suspect area at Putnam is T10, other than that it is just as safe or safer IMO than BHF, Brainerd or RA(pre-bend).  Heck even Barber and VIR have some areas more risky than Putnam.  

[r6_philly]

Do you even comprehend what you read?  I would suggest that you Re-read my many post.  Specifically the part where I agree with what others are saying relative to safety and that race organizations need to stop participating at said tracks.  
But alas it is still up to each individual to decide.  
Fine, if you have such a problem with Summit and walls................DON'T RACE there.  NO ONE is making you.   Pretty tacky on your part invoking third party racers who have experienced unfortunate instances on the track.  Should I now start naming friends and fellow racers who I know who have experienced the same?  Get a life.

Actually the racing orgs are making us race there. I rather not, but if I take racing half serious and have any seasonal goals, I can't afford to not go to summit 4 time a year and re-face that wall 100's times a year. The rules/schedule of my race org dictate that I race there. So I presume the racing org think that it is safe enough to race at summit the way it is. But what if I don't think so? Should the people who sanctions the events and take my licensing and entry fees care about my assessment?

I am not suggesting that we just don't go race there. I am saying the racing orgs should do more (note I typed the word proactive about 10 times)

Remember, we are not just paying for track rental. We are also paying the race org. to run things for us, and providing a service.

As for the argument that this is only club racing............

Why isn't CCS(the regional series) NON PROFIT ? ? ?

If it is only about a bunch of guys and gals get together and have fun and have a jolly ole time, why is someone trying to make money out of it? shouldn't it not be a business, and more like a club or association?

If CCS/CCE is making money off of us racers (from spectator/gatefees), then we are subcontractors of the org (read the AMA release) instead of simple members.


If CCS/CCE is making money off of us from our entry fees, then we should be treated as customers/clients and more care taken.

Look I have to cary liability insurance so if someone slip and falls in my establishment they can sue me. Why am I being asked for a waiver, and no one can be held responsible at the track? Something aint quite the way I like it.

See if CCS/CCE is non-profit and they are turning a positive balance sheet, they would be more willing to plunge a few tens of thousands to buy us airfence. But they are FOR-PROFIT, and inproving track safety certainly is going to cut into the profit margin.

Just look at AMA. AMA is non-profit, so it does a lot of good for general rider safety and issues. AMA Pro Racing is for-profit, and it has a lot of safety complaints.

[r6_philly]

Nobody voted but I believe Pocono was taken off the schedule for safty concerns.

hmmmm its more than what it is on the surface. safety is always an concern at pocono, but that track is not more dangerous than other nascar oval tracks. If safety is the concern, we would have ROC at VIR.

[Super Dave]

Not sure on the specifics with this but if memory serves me correctly continuing to run at Putnam had very little to do with safety issues and everything to do with track management and the relationship with CCS vise-versa etc.

Yes, this is absolutely correct.

[Super Dave]

Actually the racing orgs are making us race there.

Stop right there...

Don't play the victim card;  you make the decision to enter races.  You are not contracted to race and receive a pay check.  If racing is too dangerous, you need to find something else to do.

Life involves risk, everyday.  Randy Renfrow falls down the stairs and dies.  Terrible and tragic.  If you're unable to reasonably assess the risks at an individual track and ride accordingly, you have bigger problems.

Second, you can't make the tracks do everything you want.  You want them to?  Then you should step up to the plate with your money and build a race track that fits your standards.  Changes require money.  If you can't pull that one out, it can't be done.

Yes, race tracks can rent out their time to the car racers and the car racing organizations.

How long did we race at Road America with the steer barrier at the kink?  When did air fence come into existance?  Daytona?  I raced at Charlotte.  Would you like to race with me at the Streets of Steamboat or through Park City, Utah?  Laguna has some bad places.  Go off the track in turn one at Brainerd...I mean just try to walk off the track in the grass...it's like motocross.

It does come down to the right hand...either in raising your hand in making the choice to race someplace or in making the decision on how fast to go in a particular area of a race track.  You've got to understand the difference to have some endurance in racing.

Why isn't CCS non profit?  Seems rather silly.  The huge program in Omaha known as "Boy's Town" is non-profit, but they have unbelieveable sums of money...they actually operate their programs world wide from the interest that they receive on their money.

Obviously, there is a difference in whether someone slips and falls in an establishment and whether a racer is unable to control a motorcycle at speed...poor preparation of the bike, bad set up or just poor knowledge, tires heat cycled too many times, rider bought a cheaper leather suit rather than a heavy duty Vanson set, how about poor skills?

As for doing more...

You have the answers, you can work within the frame work or you can work to improve things with the existing opportunities.  You ever donate to either the Wegman Fund or the RRW Air fence thing?  Seems like positive work.

You have a lot of complaints, but you have no answers.  I wasn't happy with the riding and knowledge base of the Midwest racers so I've blown $100k in my school helping.  That's a lot of money, but it's a lot more than you think because I know that all of you make more money than I do at your jobs than I do.

I've been at six road racing events where a life has been lost.  It's terrible, but I've also had people I know die of cancer, car accidents, and other things.  Most racing deaths didn't have to do with a wall, etc.  Racing isn't perfect, and even though every precaution is taken, we all find ways to get hurt or die.  WE ALL DO OUR BEST TO MINIMIZE THE POTENTIAL.

Next?

[am_#65_john_deere]

dave, just a quick question??????streets of steamboat and park city utah,sound like races on closed public roads.do these races still exist????, is there anywhere in the u.s that races on street circuits????that is the type of racing that i grew up with, its the reason i got into racing.i wanted to race the isle of man, but a move to the states and a wife have prevented that so far, maybe some day before i die!!!!!!!!!   ive been reading these posts on safety and it seems to me that not many people realise how much safer the race tracks here are as opposed to street circuits.every track ive been to here has at least some run off, ok, there are some hairy turns with walls close to them, but so what .they are there.deal with it.most of the tracks were built with cars in mind, because car racing is more popular and more profitable here.how many spectators show up at club racing??????dont know if i'm going off track here, but racing comes down to two things.......  money and your right hand.no matter how good or new a track is, someone will not like it or have safety issues with it.

[sdiver68]

I want to highlight one of SUPER! Dave's points...

How many of you have donated to the air fence fund?  or Wegman Benefit?

I stayed awy from Heartland Park for a few reasons..one of those was I knew the track conditions would be spotty at best.  Sounds like spotty would be a nice word.

Gateway is similar but its home track for me.  With another 4 sections of air fence (on top of the 2-3 they currently deploy) it may even rise to OK..given the oval walls aren't going to be moved.

I'm all for safety and have spoken with my pocketbook.  But either we work with the framework of what we have or it becomes an us versus them and that's not good for anyone!  things ARE getting better over time...just not at the pace we would like to see.

[am_#65_john_deere]

hey steve, how does one donate to the airfence fund? who do you contact? who do you make checks payable to??

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

that is the type of racing that i grew up with, its the reason i got into racing.i wanted to race the isle of man, but a move to the states and a wife have prevented that so far, maybe some day before i die!!!!!!!!!  

Welcome to the board Anthony!
Personally, I would never race the Isle of Mann.  Too bloody dangerous.  Not me.  No way.

(If you can figure out a way to get us a ride for there, count me in.  Just don't tell my wife...)

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

Stop right there...

Next?

Nice job, Dave.  Very well said.

[1fastmofo]

I just happened to fill out the envelope the other day. Here's the info that I came across, I'm assuming you make the checks out to: Roadracing World Action Fund.

Roadracing World Action Fund
P.O. Box 1428
Lake Elsinore, CA 92531