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Daytona is easy... myth?

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sdiver68

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Daytona is easy... myth?
« on: October 15, 2014, 03:35:47 pm »
If you don't like objective data, please ignore the rest of this thread.  :cheers:

It seems like many in the racing community talk about Daytona as an "easy" track where all you have to do is pin the throttle.  To test this presumption, I looked at 600SS AMA best lap times of team A and B riders, for each round of the 2014 AMA season.

My theory is that if a track is "easier" then another, then the B rider best lap time should be closer to the A rider.  On a more difficult track, the A rider would use his/her skill to create a bigger gap.  Here are the results, and please note I averaged the difference in Race 1 and Race 2 when both riders had complete races:

At Daytona, the Best Lap time of Rider A was 1.7% faster than Rider B
Road America, 2.1%
Barber, 1.4%
Mid-Ohio, 3.7% (damp conditions IIRC)
NJMP, 1.7%

Now obviously this is a limited data set and there are other variables but with some time and more data this could be proven out.  Taken just on these results, Barber is the easiest track and Mid-Ohio the hardest.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 03:37:55 pm by sdiver68 »
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LWT Racer

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Re: Daytona is easy... myth?
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2014, 04:22:25 pm »
What about each riders experience at said track?  That is something to consider.


One rider gets suspension right, other does not. Lots to consider in this.





Basically you're mad because people think WERA's doing it right with Barber, and CCS is bad because you buy your national title with power.   Because walking away from someone at Barber is so much easier then walking away from someone at Daytona.....


I'm not saying Daytona is easy, but I fully disagree with it being the place for national title purely because the time at topped out speed.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 04:31:56 pm by Swiest »
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MACOP1104

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Re: Daytona is easy... myth?
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2014, 05:06:55 pm »
"IGNORE"  enabled....
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sdiver68

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Re: Daytona is easy... myth?
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2014, 05:16:19 pm »
What about each riders experience at said track?  That is something to consider.


One rider gets suspension right, other does not. Lots to consider in this.





Basically you're mad because people think WERA's doing it right with Barber, and CCS is bad because you buy your national title with power.   Because walking away from someone at Barber is so much easier then walking away from someone at Daytona.....


I'm not saying Daytona is easy, but I fully disagree with it being the place for national title purely because the time at topped out speed.

I'm not mad about anything.  I like both tracks and both race orgs.  FWIW, I consider WERA GNF to be the hardest club level championship.  Daytona is fun, but I'd like to see CCS Nationals at Road Atlanta or COTA even though the latter would be cost prohibitive.

Going into the analysis, I figured Daytona would come out as "easiest" and Barber as "hardest". And that may very well be the case with further data.  But right now, the incomplete data doesn't suggest that to be the case.  I got to thinking about it from personal experience where my gap to the winning expert lap times was relatively consistent when going from track-to-track except in the case where 1 of us was on his home track.



« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 05:25:08 pm by sdiver68 »
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Cowboy 6

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Re: Daytona is easy... myth?
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2014, 06:58:40 pm »
Wow!  You must have worked out the formula that "proved" Global Warming.....
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MELK-MAN

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Re: Daytona is easy... myth?
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2014, 10:08:54 pm »
just for those thinking it's all about HP, why are there 600 riders turning faster lap times than 1000 rider? Does hp help at daytona ? yes. But no way.. no how.. will a slow rider, even on a mega fast bike, go fast at daytona.
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Capitalview

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Re: Daytona is easy... myth?
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2014, 03:45:49 pm »
just for those thinking it's all about HP, why are there 600 riders turning faster lap times than 1000 rider? Does hp help at daytona ? yes. But no way.. no how.. will a slow rider, even on a mega fast bike, go fast at daytona.

They will probably go faster than they would on a lower hp bike though.  HP does play a big role on some tracks though.  It can help make up for some riders lack of skill on those tracks.

Of course, on more technical twisty tracks, a high dollar, well set up suspension will probably do the same.
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Gino230

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Re: Daytona is easy... myth?
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2014, 11:08:49 am »
I disagree that the championship is "bought" at Daytona. I don't care how much HP you have.

Yes, given equal riders, the guy with more HP will have an advantage at Daytona. But you can't go fast there without a well set up chassis, I might even argue that it's equally as important. The track is horribly bumpy, and seems to be getting worse every year.

There are always people crying about how it's not fair, and yet EVERY YEAR, the fastest guys always end up winning.

Also, as was stated earlier, experience counts for alot. Daytona may appear simple but it's anything but. I have been going there for 8 years, and I have fast bikes, and I just got under the 2:00 mark this weekend for the first time. Compare that to Roebling with it's big straight that should favor higher HP bikes, I've only been there twice and got smoked, despite my fast engine.

In support of my theory, Melka won the LW F40 race this weekend on a bike that was fast, but far from the fastest in the field. Way to go, Greg.
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MELK-MAN

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Re: Daytona is easy... myth?
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2014, 12:45:03 pm »
Gracias Gino ! congrats on your PB.
Can't wait to get back to Daytona. Love that place.
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tug296

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Re: Daytona is easy... myth?
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2014, 04:09:18 pm »
Gino you couldn't be more right, I've been racing at Daytona for more than 31 years, I've got Kevin Schwantz stories, when he borrowed a friend of mine stock FJ-600 after blowing his up, and DESTROYED the compitition during a CCS weekend. While he is an exceptional example the same occured with Colin Edwards during a CCS weekend when he was 16, and so many others on less powerful machines.
 Greg Melka is another example of maybe not the fastest top speed or most powerful, but look at the results, if he's not winning he's right there at the finish, most impressive.
 I'm old and sore now, and raced a stock 2003 RC-51, just tried to stay out of everyones way.
It was such still such a thrill for me to be on the track with all CCS racers again at Daytona, there's nowhere else like it on the planet.
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Gino230

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Re: Daytona is easy... myth?
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2014, 03:56:04 pm »
Daytona is a thrill, that's for sure. If you're not a little scared coming around NASCAR 4 at 170, there's something a little wrong with you!

This year I tried middleweight racing and it was a blast. In MW superbike, coming out of the west horseshoe in a 30+ bike freight train was an unbelievable feeling....I thought to myself "now this is a RACE baby!"
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MELK-MAN

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Re: Daytona is easy... myth?
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2014, 05:10:21 pm »
Daytona is a thrill, that's for sure. If you're not a little scared coming around NASCAR 4 at 170, there's something a little wrong with you!

This year I tried middleweight racing and it was a blast. In MW superbike, coming out of the west horseshoe in a 30+ bike freight train was an unbelievable feeling....I thought to myself "now this is a RACE baby!"

exactly one of the reasons i love the place. Totally different sensations, for extended periods of time on some laps. The draft is different here. and as how wide the track is, makes for real excitement. Having the turn 1 runoff area paved, made it SOOO much better as well. in the past, get the draft wrong and run off, you were likely not gonna get it stopped before hitting the airfence, or would likely crash trying to slow down in the grass. now you not only have a better opportunity to not crash, you have a good chance of getting right back in the race !
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