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Ducati 749 classes

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jfboothe

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Ducati 749 classes
« on: November 11, 2013, 08:07:01 am »
What classes can you run a Ducati 749? Thunderbike and LW Formula 40 are obvious choices. But can you also run in LW Superbike? I thought I saw some results that included 749s in that class but looking at the rules that isn't really clear. Also you cannot run in LW Supersport, correct? There is a note that specifically prohibits BMW HP2, Ducati/Bimota/BMW Supermono/Woods Rotax.
 
Any coming rule changes that would make a difference?
 
Thanks
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LWT Racer

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Re: Ducati 749 classes
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2013, 10:27:34 am »
Just thunderbike and LW F40 for 749.  But you have supertwins, and middleweight+.




"Twin cylinder, liquid cooled, non-desmodromic valves, up to 800cc" - For LWT GP, LWT SBK, LWT SS, and GTL.
Basically this eliminates the liquid cooled ducs.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 10:29:53 am by Swiest »
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Gino230

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Re: Ducati 749 classes
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2013, 10:42:01 am »
What classes can you run a Ducati 749? Thunderbike and LW Formula 40 are obvious choices. But can you also run in LW Superbike? I thought I saw some results that included 749s in that class but looking at the rules that isn't really clear. Also you cannot run in LW Supersport, correct? There is a note that specifically prohibits BMW HP2, Ducati/Bimota/BMW Supermono/Woods Rotax.
 
Any coming rule changes that would make a difference?
 
Thanks

For the first couple of weekends, there was a glitch in the software they started using in the FL region for timing / scoring. The first bike on your entry sheet became the default for all of your results. So some of the guys (like me) that were running Thunderbike and LW classes, it showed the 749 in the results for all of the races.

We tried to get the 748/9 allowed into LWGP and LWSB, the logic being that the TZ250 is now allowed in SB. But there was just too much resistance. Really the potential of the machine is 130HP, if someone were to build it to the limit. I would have loved to see it in LWGP and LWSB under SuperSport rules, but the SV crowd is very much against this. They do have a point, you can't just keep letting old middleweights in or pretty soon the class would become MW. However the 749 never performed to the level of the 600's even in it's prime, and you're allowed to punch the SV out to 800 so why punish the duc?

Heck I'd even love it if they allowed it in at 700CC so we could de-stroke it like Mr. Probst's GXSR
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CCS / ASRA EX # 23
2012 Ducati 848 / 1100 Conversion     2005 Ducati 749RS
2006 CCS Florida Thunderbike Champion (AM)
2008 CCS LW Supersport National Champion (EX) 2nd in 2011 and now  2012....damn you Mavros!

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jfboothe

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Re: Ducati 749 classes
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2013, 12:45:09 pm »
Thanks for the clarification. That was what I always thought but looking at the rule book and some results made me question that. I went through the class last year, got my license and planned to race to 2013 season but moving and house buying put a stop to that. I have a lot to do to my 749s this winter and I have to get myself in shape as well so we will see. I am in the MW region but maybe I can get down south early this year to get some time on the track.
 
The 570lb weight minimum is only applicable to ASRA, right?
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LWT Racer

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Re: Ducati 749 classes
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2013, 12:59:38 pm »
Yea, only ASRA

749 isn't lightweight bike, should be happy they let it in the LW f40.
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Sam Wiest #60
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Gino230

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Re: Ducati 749 classes
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2013, 02:31:08 pm »
Either is the TZ 250....
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CCS / ASRA EX # 23
2012 Ducati 848 / 1100 Conversion     2005 Ducati 749RS
2006 CCS Florida Thunderbike Champion (AM)
2008 CCS LW Supersport National Champion (EX) 2nd in 2011 and now  2012....damn you Mavros!

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Eric Kelcher

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Re: Ducati 749 classes
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2013, 11:43:39 am »
Gino interesting thought about a 700cc Ducati water cooled LGP machine. This had not been proposed to us this year or any other year that I am aware of.
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Eric Kelcher
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sdiver68

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Re: Ducati 749 classes
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2013, 12:30:52 pm »
Gino interesting thought about a 700cc Ducati water cooled LGP machine. This had not been proposed to us this year or any other year that I am aware of.


It's my understanding that WERA allows this in F2 and it can be done with off the shelf parts.
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roadracer162

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Re: Ducati 749 classes
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2013, 02:15:01 pm »
The 749 fits into the Thunderbike and LW F40 class nicely since these are sportsman classes anyway. The LW F40 class was a meld of several classes which also included the HW Sportsman class if I remember correctly.

GP machinery was also included although it was a little screwy where the LW GP machinery was at first HW F40. It has only been in recent years that the LW GP machine is now legal in LW F40.

The rules request was to allow the 748/749 Ducati into LW GP and GT lights at least that was the intent. That was changed to something different when it came to actually proposing the rule change to the committee (I still have the emails). One of my arguments is that the 250 GP bike was considered the intermediate bike of GP machinery and thus likened to the middleweight status of Ducati 748/749.

I understand the thought that "we don't want middleweight bikes in the lightweight class". Makes an aweful amount of sense, yet we continue to drop lightweight bikes down to the Ultralight class.

It doesn't make real sense to me where a liquid cooled V-twin motor of 800cc Suzuki is allowed in LW but a liquid cooled V-twin 748cc Ducati is not. What I do understand are the rules are "the rules".
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Mark Tenn
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Cowboy 6

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Re: Ducati 749 classes
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2013, 10:13:03 pm »

It doesn't make real sense to me where a liquid cooled V-twin motor of 800cc Suzuki is allowed in LW but a liquid cooled V-twin 748cc Ducati is not. What I do understand are the rules are "the rules".

800cc Suzuki liquid cooled V-twin eh?  Like to see it.....  Just because the rules allow it, doesn't mean it's out there.

Even if you go even up at 750 (which does exist) you are dealing with an "on edge" motor in a commuter chasis. Your 748/749 bikes are bone stock at 750 with a world class race chasis.  But hey, whatever it takes.....
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 10:15:02 pm by Cowboy 6 »
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C6

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roadracer162

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Re: Ducati 749 classes
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2013, 11:14:36 pm »
800cc Suzuki liquid cooled V-twin eh?  Like to see it.....  Just because the rules allow it, doesn't mean it's out there.

Even if you go even up at 750 (which does exist) you are dealing with an "on edge" motor in a commuter chasis. Your 748/749 bikes are bone stock at 750 with a world class race chasis.  But hey, whatever it takes.....


And you really believe that commuter chassis stays commuter for long? Don't overestimate the Ducati 748 and its chassis. Mine is not the Race Series version but the street able version. At 406lbs which has been lightened is no match for the garage lightened of my friend Bill Wissingers SV of 335lbs. I'm not convinced it is all about outright HP point in case a 250GP machine. HP helps on the high banks of Daytona but not necessarily everywhere else.

Each bike does have a different way of getting around the track fast.
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Mark Tenn
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Cowboy 6

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Re: Ducati 749 classes
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2013, 11:35:11 pm »
And you really believe that commuter chassis stays commuter for long? Don't overestimate the Ducati 748 and its chassis. Mine is not the Race Series version but the street able version. At 406lbs which has been lightened is no match for the garage lightened of my friend Bill Wissingers SV of 335lbs. I'm not convinced it is all about outright HP point in case a 250GP machine. HP helps on the high banks of Daytona but not necessarily everywhere else.

Each bike does have a different way of getting around the track fast.

The issue is, the rules will not be made around you and your bike. The fact that you don't have the race version, yours is heavy and not developed, will not matter a whole lot when someone else does the job to the 9's.

The same issue is at play with the air cooled Ducatis in LW. Because of CCS's nutso rules, you have $40,000 motorcycles competing in LW Supersport.

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C6

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