Lightweight rules 2011?

Started by Gino230, November 24, 2010, 10:13:32 AM

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Gino230

Let me preface this by saying I have been riding in the LW class for over 10 years on an Aprilla RS250, old Ducati 750S, Honda Hawk, SV650, and now Ducati 1000DS. I think it's time for some changes in the LW Class rules.

There are only two sportbikes currently produced that are legal for LW classes- the Suzuki SV650 and the Kawasaki Ninja 650. Both of these bikes are not very competitive from the factory and require modification to compete in anything other than Supersport, and even then with difficulty.

Ducati does not currently produce a bike that is competitive, only the Monster and Hypermotard fit the engine displacement limits and those are not suitable for racing.

Buell does not currently produce any LW eligible machinery.

Yamaha does not currently produce any LW eligible machinery.

Bimota does not currently produce any LW eligible machinery.

My point is that most bikes that are competing today in LW classes are past models that are highly modified for racing use. The most competitive is the Bimota which is a superbike chassis with a LW class engine and a $30,000 price tag. Far from entry level.

I know the debate about Ducati 748's has raged on here- and I agree that when built to the limit it is too fast for Lightweight. But what about limiting the 748 (NO RS MODEL) to Supersport mods and only in GP, GT, and SB? It's already allowed in Thuderbike so no problem there.

There are tons of these things cheap on ebay, and you can build one for about $3500 from parts.

As a second option, how about allowing larger machines to be resized for LW? They do this in WERA, it was pretty common to find de-stroked 748's that were 700CC and SV's that were de stroked to fit in the LW twins category. I think RRW did an article on these. Why is this banned in CCS?

Even one step further- why not allow different frame and engine combos for SB, and GT? I would love to put my 1000DS motor into my 996 chassis. As it is there are bikes riding around (I saw two this week alone) that have been heavily modified to accept the single sided rear swingarm from a monster or 748. This basically involves sawing the bike in half and is legal- why not just let us use the whole frame?

To be clear, SuperSport rules should stay unchanged, but let us have some latitude with the SB and GT, and Thunderbike rules. There are no bikes being produced so let's start building some!

Fire away, I'm putting my head down now!
CCS / ASRA EX # 23
2012 Ducati 848 / 1100 Conversion     2005 Ducati 749RS
2006 CCS Florida Thunderbike Champion (AM)
2008 CCS LW Supersport National Champion (EX) 2nd in 2011 and now  2012....damn you Mavros!

HAWK

Paul Onley
CCS Midwest EX #413

Gixxerblade

Wait. You said that only Suzuki and Kawi produce bikes for LW yet in the next sentence you said that Ducati does too.

Peter998

I have a 1000SS with a single sided swing arm from a 998 and the frame did not need to be cut in 1/2 and the original engine cases can be used. You only need to create a spot for the rear shock linkage.

I have also seen the current Monster model raced successfully this year at Summit Point.
Peter Meringolo 2010 Expert/ASRA # 998
ECS Racing

mwsportsimaging

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Gino230

#5
Actually I said Ducati does not produce a bike that is competitive- the monster and Hypermotard aren't sportbikes, really. Yeah, they do fit the displacement categories, though. So does a KTM hypermotard. Exactly HOW successfully were these raced?

I didn't know about the Aprilia Shiver or the BMW. Nice but expensive..... So, the 10 year old 748 shouldn't be legal but the new BMW 800 and Aprilia 750 should?

Peter, how exactly did you mount a single sided swingarm without using any part of the 748 / 996 frame? Doesn't that swingarm need to mount to the engine cases AND frame?

Not saying these aren't good options, I'm just genuinely curious as to what the low cost, COMPETITIVE options are.
CCS / ASRA EX # 23
2012 Ducati 848 / 1100 Conversion     2005 Ducati 749RS
2006 CCS Florida Thunderbike Champion (AM)
2008 CCS LW Supersport National Champion (EX) 2nd in 2011 and now  2012....damn you Mavros!

MACOP1104

How about making an ULWSS class to go with the ULWSB class, then let all the air cooled 1000/1100 race the 748 in thunderbike, LWGP?

Peter998

Gino,

The swingarm fits into the stock engine case and a mount and supports needs to be welded into the frame to accept the 998 shock linkage. Other than that the frame does not need to be modified.

My frame is modified, seat support section removed and aluminum subframe installed, but that was a weight saving effort with no relation to the single sided swing arm.

I have no issue with 748's being included in the LW class I maybe saw 2 all year in Thunderbike.
Peter Meringolo 2010 Expert/ASRA # 998
ECS Racing

roadracer162

Peter,

Did you do the swingarm conversion yourself or was this bought this way? Did you also do the 2 to 1 exhaust with that lightweight subframe? How much does your bike weigh?

Mark Tenn
CCS Ex #22
Mark Tenn Motorsports, Michelin tire guy in Florida.

Gino230

Peter,

The ones I saw had the "drop" from the 996 / 748 frame welded on to the back of the 900SS frame. The 996 single sided swingarm goes through the engine cases and is braced on either side by the frame- thus making the whole setup stiffer.

Does yours just pivot in the cases and that's the only point of attachment? How does it handle?

I was honestly thinking let us run the 748 in SS trim, no (RS motors). This should be competitive with the built 1200 bimota / buells, the 800 BMW or 750 Aprilla Shiver.

That or let us downsize the 748 to 700CC or bolt a different motor in the frame for SB, GT, and Thunderbike.

Could be a cost effective way to get more COMPETITIVE bikes on the LW grid.
CCS / ASRA EX # 23
2012 Ducati 848 / 1100 Conversion     2005 Ducati 749RS
2006 CCS Florida Thunderbike Champion (AM)
2008 CCS LW Supersport National Champion (EX) 2nd in 2011 and now  2012....damn you Mavros!

Peter998

I bought the bike already done. I believe that Donny Unger did the conversion.

I have had to reweld it twice, and for this comming year I will put stronger gussets in to make sure it holds together.

The froma does not come down to the swingarm pivot like the superbikes do. The bike turns in like a Superbike and is very stable mid corner. I weighed the bike at the ROC, and it weighed 365lbs with about 1 gal of gas.

Peter Meringolo 2010 Expert/ASRA # 998
ECS Racing

roadracer162

Thanks Peter. So compared to my Duc 800 your bike is actually heavier by a few pounds where mine weighs in at 365lbs with 2 gallons of fuel on the same scale. Comparing the 748 chassis to my 800 chassis after ridden both I would have to say the turn in is about the same but the stability.
Mark Tenn
CCS Ex #22
Mark Tenn Motorsports, Michelin tire guy in Florida.